Hope and heartache

[ClingingToHope]

One last post before bed. W called tonight and asked if I was bringing the girls home. I said no, they can go to school from here in the morning.

She said D10 left some art projects over there. I said we'd come get them after dinner.

So we go over. They have two new hamsters that they wanted to play with. Rather than just sit there, I took the dog for a walk. I never wanted a dog but became the one who took her with me for runs. The dog has been seriously depressed.

Anyway, after we got back I went in to D7's room and rounded them up and got them back to the car.

W followed along and gave D7 a big hug.

In terms of 180s. When this all started, I found as many reasons as possible to hang out there. When I was there I tried to be funny, charming, helpful, ask W about her day and stuff like that.

Instead, I mostly got the cold shoulder. Since she brutally shot down my last enquiry into counseling I've taken the hint that it's over and now avoid having to go over there when she's there. Don't initiate conversation but don't avoid it either. It's no longer my house. She's erased me from the premises.

On the phone she hinted at money troubles again -- she outearns me by $8k and I'm giving her $1k a month so this is amazing -- and when I was over there she was settling in watching movies.

I keep imagining this great life she has, but the reality may be far different. Whenever I am over there I see stacks of movies and romance novels. She's her mother, who spent most of her married years buried in steamy books rather than living.

As I was walking the dog though, I couldn't help wondering why I feel as if I can only be happy if she's miserable. That's a lousy way to be isn't it?

[awest1217]

Good for you for doing what is best for you and just staying out of the house. I agree with the imagining that our spouses have life better. Sometimes I think they are probably as sad as we are, but they try to find happiness in other ways because they don't want to work at the marriage, but the thing is that those other things don't fulfill them so they are just as upset later.

It is really refreshing to see a dad who is willing to do anything for his girls. As for the Chicago trip, I recommend not giving any more money and the same with summer camps. The girls will be ok with not having those things and that is a reality that W needs to deal with. If the girls complain, she needs to see that is part of what she is doing to them by wanting a D. Instead of the chicago trip and getting the American Girl Dolls, is there something less expensive you can all do together that weekend. Maybe a mini vaca that will still be fun, but not as expensive. Maybe get them something else small they want.

The anger you are feeling is normal, but don't live there forever, which is why I recommended the forgiveness book because it isn't about just making your marriage work, but I took it more as making my life better because I see no hope for my M until H is willing to stop having OW, especially the latest one.

Hope your week goes well, and stay strong!

Sad girl -
I understand your sitch. My H does not really visit my S2 much. He will come when it is convenient for him or he just is feeling like being a dad. I told him this last time he left that he needed to set a schedule to see S and stick to it because that is what is best for me and S, but he has not done it. My S is not handling it too well. He understands daddy is gone and when H was home for 2 weeks kept telling him to leave because I think he missed having me all to himself and H does not like him doing certain things that I don't mind. Since H left again, S will not sleep in his room and he will not even go to sleep unless I am holding him. I think that is him being scare of me leaving too. I also have seen some agression so I think he is mad, but being 2 he doesn't know how to handle it. It is hard when H does not want to see his kids. Just give them lots of love, let them know it is not their fault, and just listen to them if they can express their fears.

[ClingingToHope]

Thanks Awest, I was thinking a lot in the car about how I'm feeling towards W. I was extremely cold towards her on the phone Sunday. She sounded tired, dejected and unsure and I was happy to hear it in her voice.

In a way it's a 180 because I was always trying to engage her in conversation. But now I'm not only not trying, I'm avoiding conversation.

It's helping me be stronger, but it's also not loving unconditionally. I was thinking this morning that I wouldn't want to reconcile with someone so cold.

I don't know about the Chicago trip. The girls are going to suffer enough why should they miss out on the Chicago trip because W would rather buy herself new clothes and furniture than take them?

The summer thing is just going to be a mess. I thought about it last night, W is trying to save $1,200 for a retainer and I've set aside $2,500 for retainers. That's the entire summer camp cost that's going to be blown on lawyer's fees.

How did I fail so badly as a husband that she'll throw away the girls' futures? That's my depressing thought for the day.

[mishka422]

Unfortunately, in D, no one comes out uscathed. Least of all our kids.

You and your stbxw will have to face the truth and the girls will have to make the adjustments.

How did I fail so badly as a husband that she'll throw away the girls' futures? That's my depressing thought for the day.

Back it up there buddy! You didn't fail. You know that. It's was a joint effort but she's the one who made the ultimate decision to destroy the family. Not your doing.

Make a new tradition. Something that doesn't cost a lot of money.

1)Leaf jumping! You should still be able to pull together a whole bunch of leaves for the girls to jump in, shouldn't you?

2)Take the girls to the thrift store and pick up inexpensive used dolls, dress them up extra nice, clean them up and go together to a homeless shelter to give to needy little girls. It would be a fun activity and teach the girls to be grateful for all they have. The earlier you can teach them about the less fortunate in our own country the better.

3)Again, go to the thrift store and get a bunch of old clothes to play dress up in. Put on a dress and a silly hat and have tea arties with them.

Be the best dad you can be. It will more than make up for missing summer camp or the American Girl store. You can always resume those activities once things settle down.

Being two individual one income families is not easy and the quality of life will never be the same......for any of you.

Also....as if I haven't been long winded enough........STOP BEING MR. NICE GUY AND PAYING MORE THAN IS REQUIRED. You are already paying the credit card bill she ran up. You have the girls more than 50% of the time but are paying her as if she has full time custody. WRONG! She wants this? She pays the consequences. The girls will be fine so don't say you are afraid what will happen to them if you reduce payment. Your stbxw might be selfish, but it doesn't seem as though she would purposely withhold necessities from the girls.

Yeah....I said it....necessities. Food, clothes, shelter. That is all they actually need. Anything more is the fluff that makes life a little nicer.

Sorry I 2x4'd ya, but it seems like you aren't standing up for yourself in the guise of 'being there for the girls'. If you don't stand up, your girls will learn by example to walk on you and anyone else in their lives that doesn't do what they want. Don't be a bad example for them, ok?

((((((((((((((((CTH)))))))))))))))))

Thought you would need a hug after the bashing.

[awest1217]

Don't beat yourself up about being cold to W. What you seem to be confusing is that you can detach and have little contact without being cold. It is hard to do, and I fail at it all the time, but you can do it. You can talk to her about the girls and be nice and kind, but not talk to her about your relationship or personal details and even ask her to not tell her yours. You can be kind without overly putting yourself out there. I am working on this too so we can help each other.

With the girls, I understand wanting to do everything they still did. With S, after a few months of H moving out, I felt really bad because H would come with presents for him once a month like DVDs and other stuff like that. It made me mad because he isn't giving me anything and I could not give S those same things because I can barely pay the bills, but S doesn't care and neither will the girls. Yes, they are used to a certain living arrangement, but sadly that has changed and you can't expect to keep everything the same when you have only one income. I recommend talking to them and being a little honest. Don't tell them you have no money or give them all the gory details, but explain how with being separate you now have two house payments, two grocery bills, etc. and some of the "extras" will need to be cut out for a while.

Give the girls an allowance you can afford and even put it in an account for them, and then maybe they (next year of course) could choose to buy some of the "extras" if you can't or even make a list of things you cannot do as much and on special occasions you can get them one or do one of those activities. IT won't be as much as they are used to, but it will still be special. Your girls are old enough to start to learn to manage money so they will understand. What they want is your attention, which is the point of my story with my son. He doesn't care about the toys, what he cares about is I am the one watching the movies with him, I am the one singing songs with him, and honestly his favorite toy is a set of drum sticks I bought him a while ago and my pot lids. We sing and he drums. Your girls will remember what you do with them not what you get them because the novelty of the object wears off, but memories last a lifetime!

[ClingingToHope]

Mishka and Awest, those are excellent suggestions. So far the girls are adjusting to the lifestyle changes. Unfortunately, they'll keep coming.

I remember my own childhoood. If it wasn't for my grandmother, who had a huge backyard swimming pool and a big enough house for all of us, we would have gone from a three story, two-car garage, American Dream kind of house to a two-bedroom apartment because my mom left with few job skills and a bad back.

Because of my grandmother, we ended up living really comfortably. I can't complain about what we had. I don't know if that's going to be the case for the girls.

D just rips everything apart. Creates tug-of-wars. Holidays are always tense. My parents had to divorce. There was so much anger and yelling and so little love. I wish they were still alive so I could talk to them about it.

As for myself, forgiveness isn't in my heart right now. I'm heading to Barnes & Noble tonight to find a couple of books. If I can't come out of this process a better person then I failed God -- again.

[mishka422]

If I can't come out of this process a better person then I failed God -- again.

STOP! You didn't fail God. You can't fail God. You only fail yourself. God loves you no matter what and forgives you. God does not hold us responsible for someone else's choices either. Nothing you could have done would warrant your W walking away without so much as trying, but you are going to have to give yourself time to deal with that.

CTH - have you looked into DivorceCare? It is offered through churches all over the country and is an excellent program for learning to move forward in forgiveness. Please do it, no only for yourself but for your girls.

That program saved my life and I met one of the best friends I've ever had in my life there. Please, please, please....I beg you.

[ClingingToHope]

Mishka I'm OK. I'm just having an emotional day and I can't really figure out why. Perhaps it was thinking I missed an opportunity last night when W called. The DB counselor says every conversation is an opportunity to rebuild and I may have missed one because she didn't sound like her sure self. She sounded vulnerable for once. I could have explored what was wrong.

Of course, doing that has gotten me nowhere either.

Maybe it's the two weeks until the girls are over for the weekend -- although I'll have them both Wednesdays.

Perhaps I'm already freaking out about the weekend. I head into this one with no plans and I feel like a GAL failure if I don't do something.

Perhaps part of it is just having to sit around so much because of the hernia surgery. When bad thoughts hit me before I'd hit the gym.

I have my marriage rebuilders class tomorrow. That will help. Wednesday I have the kids. Thursday maybe I'll just rest.

I don't know. Maybe it's a plateau. When you start working out, you make incredible gains for a while and then you plateau for a while before your next big breakthrough.

W just called. Back to her confident self. Her late night is Wednesday, which is the day I have them anyway. Short. To the point.

[ClingingToHope]

Great ending to a great day. Have you ever seen "Definitely, Maybe?" It's about a divorcing father telling his daughter a mystery/love story about the three women in his life and she had to figure out which one was his home.

He's moving into his apartment. She listens to the story and there's this part where she's watching her parents talk a few feet away. She's so hoping for some sign that it's not over ... and it's just not there.

It's so freaking sad and so true in how D hits kids.

I resemble the lead actor and my W, if you changed her hair to blond, would look a lot like the lead actress.

The movie has a happy ending. He ends up with his "true" love and his daughter helps him find her.

I love Hollywood. I hope the last part is what's in store for me. But so much of this movie just punches me in the stomach.

I know, I know. Hit me with the 2-by-4.

I played basketball tonight for the first time since the hernia surgery. Did OK. Didn't hurt myself and for that one hour I didn't think about my life at all.

After, of course, all I've thought about today is my sitch. I don't know how to thought stop.

I know women are supposed to be the emotional ones. But it just seems like a lot is crashing on me right now.

* I had my girls for four straight days and it felt so normal.

* I learned about a possible OM on Friday.

* Saturday I learn W is going out with the maid of honor from our wedding who is a friend of mine. I hope somehow that's a possible baby step for me.

* Sunday W calls sounding a little vulnerable and instead of exploring it and perhaps letting her talk, I was cold, abrupt.

* Then an email today from W talking about scheduling stuff -- and about a list of lawyers and checking on retirement stuff for D -- and the worry about next weekend and finding something to do.

What I was thinking about in the car is exactly how this DB stuff is supposed to work for the WAS. How does someone so set on leaving make that turnaround back to the LBS? I've read the success stories and I'm going to buy "I Do Again" for that little bit of hope to cling to.

[ClingingToHope]

Going to focus on today. It's Nov. 3, 2009 and it's the only one I'll ever get so I'm going to try to make it a good one.

Decided to respond to W's email first thing rather than drag it out. Listed five attorneys trained in collaborative divorce. She can call three of them because I talked to two.

Also told her I'm going to stay on her insurance until a D is final because I can't afford the $50 to $75 a check less. My HR department said I can join the insurance plan mid-year as soon as a D is final.

Beautiful day outside. Lots to do.