I was going to post here around page 14 and was sidetracked by W – let me pick up where I left off . Great posts 25, and I would remind BM to check up on this when she can too. (caught up with her today and lent what support I could).
Lucky11: I'm not sure it is necessarily healthy or useful to link “showing or maintaining your love for the WAS while following through with detaching”. As 25 pointed out, detaching is for you and you don't do it to prove anything to your spouse (well mostly anyway).
I'm also not sure I agree wholly with Kevin's post. Sure, you should validate your spouse when appropriate but it's not helpful to further empower any delusions, history re-writing, or obvious parts of the WAS script. It's a thin line at times, as with many things.
Things I did? Sure, I could throw in some examples, not that I'm a good example or anywhere as versed as most of the experienced posters here. And, as I posted, there are often a ton of unique features in each sitch, including details in your shared history and personal traits. It does seem to me that the things that can be generally applied to most sitchs are the most obvious ones, and also the most difficult to "let go of".
I stopped demanding to know everyday if W had contact with OM (he's her client). I stopped checking her phone, emails, whatever. I stopped trying to read into her actions, and to find signs that she was "connecting" with me again as she had with OM. I decided to respect her achievements in her career and not insist on her quitting - combined with accepting that she would have contact with OM only when necessary and only for business. (I got slaughtered for this on here, and am not saying this is right for everyone. But I grew to accept that I had to start trusting her, and that if she continued to make wrong choices, it was not within my control).
I focused more on my business, forcing myself to recognize things I did not want to admit - such as paying myself much less than what I made working for others for too long and being in a comfort zone. My family had suffered for this financially even though I was still making good money.
I became much more involved in the running of the house and with the kids. This was where W had every right to be as critical as she was, and while I did not enjoy facing up to my mistakes, I decided to do something about things. I did home improvement stuff, researched financial planning, started really getting into what my kids were doing at school, volunteering for about a ton of activities, taking time to do stuff with them and talking to them about life later. I helped my son catch insects and label them with our own made up names. I patted him to sleep after praying. I talked to my daughter about a million things … boys (including part 1 of THE talk), dinosaurs, and why Mom loved us all, but would not come to Mass with us.
A million simple, basic stuff that I had simply and basically stuffed in the closet before.
And I did them because they were the right things that a good H and father would try to do, and because I love them very much, not because I expected them to notice and to be grateful for it. Sure, in the beginning, I did it hoping that W would notice, but that went away pretty fast once I realized I actually enjoyed what I was doing.
Kevin, looking at your later posts here, I would add this. A thought came to me during an earlier phase of my journey. Love can be unconditional, but bear in mind we’re humans, not God, and while Love can be unconditional, relationships can never be so – it’s just a fact of life. I’m not speaking for God, but I would imagine He still loves every one of the sinners in Hell, but they’re there because they chose to cross certain boundaries he set to have a loving relationship with him. I would still love my W for the goodness she has in the person she is, but I might not be in a relationship with her if she still chooses to disrespect basic boundaries of being in a M. Hope that helps.
Me 42 W 39 Married: 11 Jan 1998, T: Since 1992 First Bomb: Sep 2007 Confirmed A/OM: 4 Nov 2007 Kids: D10, S5 Reconciled and together again after (alot of) time and heartbreak. 3rd kid, S, born 2 Jan 2010.
25, I agree with your posts if I understand your definition of love as a verb. Also get the part about people hiding behind "love" so they don't have to act responsibly. Sense we are on a thread titled detachment I want to make sure that we separate the two things less they get confused. Love and attachment are not synonymous. You can still love someone and be detached from them. Detachment is really the result of setting a boundary on how you will be controlled by your S.
So many times I see people try and substitute love with anger or even hate as a means of coping (read about cognitive distortion). Problem with that is you still have made the other person the center of your emotional universe. Until you are at the center of your universe you have outsourced everything.
_________________________ Me-41 W-39 M-15 yrs T-17 yrs D-12 S-9 S-8 B 5/08 S 1/09
25, I agree with your posts if I understand your definition of love as a verb. Also get the part about people hiding behind "love" so they don't have to act responsibly. Sense we are on a thread titled detachment I want to make sure that we separate the two things less they get confused. Love and attachment are not synonymous. You can still love someone and be detached from them. Detachment is really the result of setting a boundary on how you will be controlled by your S.
Complete agreement. Good to point out on this thread though. Thanks. And I believe love is a choice, so it's a noun AND a verb b/c when you are choosing to love, it takes action on your part. I don't want to get into semantics here b/c essentially I know your point about loving while detaching is what is important and I totally agree. Detachment is not indifference. Letting go isn't running away, etc.
So many times I see people try and substitute love with anger or even hate as a means of coping (read about cognitive distortion). Problem with that is you still have made the other person the center of your emotional universe. Until you are at the center of your universe you have outsourced everything.
Again, I'm in total agreement. The LBSer must MUST stop making the WAS the center of their universe, and some folks call that love or standing, and it's not. It's making someone the center of your universe (AND it's choosing the worst possible person at the worst possible time for that). Plus the WAS usually never wanted to be the center of the LBSer's universe of Needs...
I can see why some use their anger as a "coping" mechanism, at least temporarily. I think it's easier for some people to be angry rather than feel so sad. For me, it wasn't a good idea b/c being sad is easier for me and the anger was going to consume me. But I know folks who find it easier to be furious with the WAS or the OP, rather than face the terrible rejection they feel...it does suck to be in that phase. In some ways I hesitate to post here b/c I hate reminding myself of the dark place I was in just 2 1/2 years ago...but I know that it's important for people to talk to those on the other side and it reminds me of how far my h and I have come and that does have value. Since Retrovaille my h sees the value of having other couples who've been through the fire, & talking about it. Still, it can remind one of being in an airplane crash that you miraculously survived.
Antlers, C-bart, you guys are learning & growing so much. I cannot help but believe that it is for a reason, a good one. As I said to someone the other day, as hard as it may be to have faith in a guy walking on water and all that, it's actually harder for me to believe our complex world and the love in our lives are all the result of some molecules randomly banging into each other. By analogy, I cannot believe that God has brought you through so much and taught you so much, only to leave you alone in the lurch. You are being prepared for something good...with whom, I do not know. But you are not meant to be alone in the long run, with time ---so I look forward to hearing from you about your lives and how "just around the corner from here," is something/someone wonderful in your life. I really do. I know it's a gut instinct thing to say but hey, I "felt like sharing"...
Take care and hang in there...this terrible part will pass and things will get better. And don't get sidetracked. It's so easy to engage in circuitous arguments and debate irrelevant issues to death to avoid the internal work we all must do. What matters most is that you keep GAL, making forward progress every day if possible, and loving those children.
((( j- )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I was going to post here around page 14 and was sidetracked by W – let me pick up where I left off . Great posts 25, and I would remind BM to check up on this when she can too. (caught up with her today and lent what support I could).
Lucky11: I'm not sure it is necessarily healthy or useful to link “showing or maintaining your love for the WAS while following through with detaching”. As 25 pointed out, detaching is for you and you don't do it to prove anything to your spouse (well mostly anyway).
I'm also not sure I agree wholly with Kevin's post. Sure, you should validate your spouse when appropriate but it's not helpful to further empower any delusions, history re-writing, or obvious parts of the WAS script. It's a thin line at times, as with many things.
Things I did? Sure, I could throw in some examples, not that I'm a good example or anywhere as versed as most of the experienced posters here. And, as I posted, there are often a ton of unique features in each sitch, including details in your shared history and personal traits. It does seem to me that the things that can be generally applied to most sitchs are the most obvious ones, and also the most difficult to "let go of".
I stopped demanding to know everyday if W had contact with OM (he's her client). I stopped checking her phone, emails, whatever. I stopped trying to read into her actions, and to find signs that she was "connecting" with me again as she had with OM. I decided to respect her achievements in her career and not insist on her quitting - combined with accepting that she would have contact with OM only when necessary and only for business. (I got slaughtered for this on here, and am not saying this is right for everyone. But I grew to accept that I had to start trusting her, and that if she continued to make wrong choices, it was not within my control).
I focused more on my business, forcing myself to recognize things I did not want to admit - such as paying myself much less than what I made working for others for too long and being in a comfort zone. My family had suffered for this financially even though I was still making good money.
I became much more involved in the running of the house and with the kids. This was where W had every right to be as critical as she was, and while I did not enjoy facing up to my mistakes, I decided to do something about things. I did home improvement stuff, researched financial planning, started really getting into what my kids were doing at school, volunteering for about a ton of activities, taking time to do stuff with them and talking to them about life later. I helped my son catch insects and label them with our own made up names. I patted him to sleep after praying. I talked to my daughter about a million things … boys (including part 1 of THE talk), dinosaurs, and why Mom loved us all, but would not come to Mass with us.
A million simple, basic stuff that I had simply and basically stuffed in the closet before.
And I did them because they were the right things that a good H and father would try to do, and because I love them very much, not because I expected them to notice and to be grateful for it. Sure, in the beginning, I did it hoping that W would notice, but that went away pretty fast once I realized I actually enjoyed what I was doing.
Kevin, looking at your later posts here, I would add this. A thought came to me during an earlier phase of my journey. Love can be unconditional, but bear in mind we’re humans, not God, and while Love can be unconditional, relationships can never be so – it’s just a fact of life. I’m not speaking for God, but I would imagine He still loves every one of the sinners in Hell, but they’re there because they chose to cross certain boundaries he set to have a loving relationship with him. I would still love my W for the goodness she has in the person she is, but I might not be in a relationship with her if she still chooses to disrespect basic boundaries of being in a M. Hope that helps.
Deep, you are doing some seriously good work here. I'm impressed and hopeful for you. I'll post more later but wanted to tell you that you have shown remarkable self awareness and growth and it will matter...it will make a difference EVEN if not to your spouse. Too early for you to accept the value that has, so I ask that you simply trust that it is important. I have to read your thread more later. Take care and keep posting. You are in the right place. (( J- ))
PS Thanks for checking on BM...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I'd like to throw some good reads in here that give me hope: Of course the Bible has good advice and solutions for all of life's problems that are truthful and accurate if applied.
Another good book that I read over and over is "As a Man Thinketh" by James Allen. (Can be downloaded free online) It has some priniciples that line up with God's Word and shows you how to become a better you.
The third book was "I Do Again" by Jeff & Cheryl Scruggs. It certainly brought hope for my suituation.
25: thanks for the encouragement. I do have an appreciation of the value of the changes that has happened, and would really like to see your future comments and learn from them. I've stopped posting in my main thread for some time now, but would journal there from time to time.
Having had enough egg on my face in my M breakdown earlier to cause extinction of untold bird specie, I would still say hands on my heart, that the W and I are in a pretty good place right now, and I don't see it ending till one of us does. It's far from perfect, but we're in a "new" M that is far better than what we had pre-bomb.
C-Bart: before, oh quite some ways before.I would say that dealing with her guilt and my resentment at that point onwards were our main challenges. Famous last words perhaps, but there are just some things that can't be faked, that you just know. When the WAS mode drops, it's not just a change of verbal communications, or even actions. It's a literal change of mindset, of BEING.
Me 42 W 39 Married: 11 Jan 1998, T: Since 1992 First Bomb: Sep 2007 Confirmed A/OM: 4 Nov 2007 Kids: D10, S5 Reconciled and together again after (alot of) time and heartbreak. 3rd kid, S, born 2 Jan 2010.
The LBSer must MUST stop making the WAS the center of their universe, and some folks call that love or standing, and it's not. It's making someone the center of your universe (AND it's choosing the worst possible person at the worst possible time for that).
I cannot believe that God has brought you through so much and taught you so much, only to leave you alone in the lurch. You are being prepared for something good...with whom, I do not know. But you are not meant to be alone in the long run, with time ---so I look forward to hearing from you about your lives and how "just around the corner from here," is something/someone wonderful in your life. I really do. I know it's a gut instinct thing to say but hey, I "felt like sharing"...
Take care and hang in there...this terrible part will pass and things will get better. And don't get sidetracked. It's so easy to engage in circuitous arguments and debate irrelevant issues to death to avoid the internal work we all must do. What matters most is that you keep GAL, making forward progress every day if possible, and loving those children.
Thanks 25. I believe the very things that you are saying here.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
I will respond on my own thread as to not hijack this one.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
