Detachment

[LookingFrAnswers]

25, Antlers & Deep, Thank you for the above posts. I really need to internalize this. I am not there yet, after a 6 mo. separation, but more & more seems like this is the route that feels right. I think I (& maybe many others) could torture ourselves indefinitely if we do not follow this advice. So well put. Thank you so much for all the help you give.

[Lucky11too]

Thanks for all the great posts. I think so many of us stuggle with the idea of detachment. Sometimes my "mothering instinct" gets in the way of this and I just care too much about how H is feeling (my emotions say "By detaching, my H will think I don't care").

For all who have successfully detached (I am still on the beginning of this detachment journey), how do you make sure to let your spouse know that you still care but still move on with your own life? Also, is detaching somethiing you try after you first exhaust the other DB techniques (it seems like it would be hard to implement those techniques with distance and doing your own thing)? Or am I just completely missing the mark on this whole detaching thing?

[Deep]

As someone still very much learning and living in hope my M continues to heal and never skids wildly off the right path again, I'll add some thoughts on what I feel.

Detachment is so personal and unique although there are basic general guidelines. This applies to both WAS and LBS. It's impossible to have absolute zero expectations. Nobody ever went into or stays in a r/s without some hope / expectation of happiness ands stability. Especially in my most painful times of trouble, I had such problems coping with the basic idea that happiness is everyone's personal responsibility. Now, I would say that is a truth and a necessity. Yet, the very idea of M is of 2 becoming 1 in many ways, a shared happiness, shared growth, shared future. How can you invest yourself fully in a complete M and reconcile that with the idea of detachment and personal happiness for each spouse? There have been posts here that spout bile at New Age gurus, counsellers etc, who because of a focus on "personal happiness", often give WAS the empowerment they need to go off on their trips of fantasy and delusion.

Where does one even start to draw the line?

And when you start to detach because you need to, the impact on you and the WAS is in the hands of God. I don't think it's a coincidence that not a few LBS on this board start to experience symptoms of switching to WAS mode over time.

I had a CORE session recently. There, I shared some of my thoughts on detachment, bringing back many hurtful memories. W and I have come such a long (and traumatic) way over the past 2 years and I felt trusting enough to talk about stuff more openly. I talked about how the A "ended", but W still having feelings for OM, and still "not in love" with me. The months of having her "stay for the kids till they are ok" shoved in my face while she still kept contact with OM. The blunt facts of "Deep, I can stay married to you without being too unhappy" as my marital status quo. The gnawing pain I felt as I pursued, pleaded, cajoled, demanded, nagged, screamed. For her to love me again, for our M to make sense. For the world to make sense and be ok again.

(This was way before I found about DB/DR, we were well on the ay to R by the time I came by this forum).

So I detached, but imperfectly, because to be honest, I could not "lovingly" detach completely as so many veterans here would advise. Not because I did not want to, but I had lost a lot of myself. I can honestly say I loved my W thoughout, but I had reached a point at times when I was ready to walk away myself, because that was the only way the world could start to make sense to me again.

In my own biased hindsight, I felt many things drew my W back. The lifting of the fog, OM's behaviour, W's growing fear she would lose me, the "Gucci/Robx" factors, W waking up to my good qualities again, and qualities I grew while dealing with the sitch (including what SP would call "mojo" I guess :)).

I shared this at CORE. Now, we may be healing but we still squirm at times when we have to face the demons again, particularly in a group setting. Just as WAS re-write history when they plunge into WAS mode, it can happen when they emerge from the fog - they can't recognise the alien either. And frankly, LBS can be guilty of re-writing too. W insisted she knew she never had a future with OM and had decided to stay, but of how the sitch was so hard because of her guilt and my pain. The detachment on my part to her helped when she felt less pressure and accusation and could "find herself again without wondering if Deep would walk out on any given day because of what happened". And that this made it so much easier for her to (seemingly) one day just snap out of the fog and fall in love with me all over again. And yet, the knowledge that I could indeed walk, also made her take responsibilty for her own happiness and a future without me. At different points in time, it could have driven her towards OM, and away from OM (or potential OMs).

Somewhat confusing, and somewhat logical and in line with conventional wisdom eh?

So, detachment (and GAL) per se, was necessary to me to stay sane, and ultimately played its part in getting my M to the point where healing was possible. The forms of detachment, applied at different points of the WAS fog, was also alternatively push and pull factors for W.

Apologies if this somehow degenerated into a long and rambling post.

[Looking_For_Help]

Deep,

Your treatise on detachment is impressive!

I can relate to the LBS becoming the WAS. I oscillate b/w desperately trying to save my marriage and becoming a WAS myself. You arrive at a point where your self-preservation instincts begin to take over and they begin to scream "take care of yourself first..you are worth so much more than you can possibly realize." What keeps me from becoming a WAS is my love for my kids (S5 and D3).

Thanks,
LFH

[Lucky11too]

Deep - Thank you for your explanation as someone who has been thru it and is coming out the other side. Do you have any specifics on things you did or didn't do to maintain/show your love for W but still follow thru with the detaching you needed for your sanity?

And LFH, that's definitely me too. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I almost become the WAS and file the D, but my S (1 yr) gives me the courage and strength to keep going.

[brknheart]

For those working on detachment, how to you handle moving on, making plans for your new live without your S if DDay comes? At the same time, you have a sliver of hope the WAS snaps out of it.

[ChillEarlyFrost]

brknheart

I forget who but someone suggested that I take a look at this article. It helped to clarify things for me. Being new at this I realize how difficult it can truly be to put into practice, I am coming to realize that this is a process and is no overnight fix. I am working through the process.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/


Good Luck

Chill

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks for all the great posts. I think so many of us stuggle with the idea of detachment. Sometimes my "mothering instinct" gets in the way of this and I just care too much about how H is feeling (my emotions say "By detaching, my H will think I don't care").

Great honesty here. But You overestimate this possibility and its' negative impact. For instance, think it out. If you really detach the way we mean (& please read up on what we're discussing b/c it's in the DB books and here on this site in depth examples and descriptions)...but if you do it right, your h will NOT think you don't care. He'll see a happy person with things to bring to the table...someone who offers something. Not just needs from him. And if he somehow decided you don't care, THEN WHAT? You think he'll disappear? Never to try and say his feelings or see his child again? No, your real fear is that he'll use your apparent independence or indifference to relieve his guilt and say "oh good, she's over me so I don't have to worry or feel bad" and you know, that could happen at first. It may be tempting to him, at first. But 2 things to consider...1) at some point he's going to second guess himself and his choices...why? B/c if you are such a bad catch and you are such a lousy fit, and he's such a good one, why are YOU alright now? How'd you detach and move on? Hmm?? How come you are upbeat and moving along and seem content and have an active life GAL- and have friends and interests other than him? Oh, b/c you are a great catch, that's why. And he'll have to see you at some point b/c of the child and the diff he sees in you will be more noticable with limited contacts...bigger changes...etc. And 2) your options are limited anyhow. What choice do you have? Is the needy clingy approach working? Think on this....Did he leave you b/c you never showed you cared about him? Now that's a fair question. But I doubt it's true b/c you self describe as "motherly" and I'm thinking on his end maybe...smotherly maybe or he feels too much responsibility "suddenly all grown up with a kid now and what happened to my youth? blah blah blah", but in some cases if you had been unloving, and unexpressive and cold, the 180 would require you NOT to detach at all. But your sitch doesn't sound like that at all to me. Not at all.

I think you fear you'll be letting him off the hook or making it easier for him to cop out and stay away saying she doesn't care so I don't have to feel bad or come back..see??? ...and it only seems that way on the surface. B/C while it may be easier for him to see you upbeat rather than sobbing, do you really want his pity? Guess what? I don't think Guilt has ever worked at keeping a WAS home for long. with men, guilt seems to push them far away. Sure have not heard of a single time that guilt got a man home to stay...


For all who have successfully detached (I am still on the beginning of this detachment journey), how do you make sure to let your spouse know that you still care but still move on with your own life?

You don't worry about making sure he knows you still care (no matter what he does or how he treats you?) or that he knows how you feel....you focus on yourself and you let him wonder. He knows that you love him and you want him back. At some level you know he knows this.
Just to be clear, did you read the DB books? Assuming yes...detachment-
You are not being rude or truly indifferent. You will answer his questions as upbeat as possible and IF you feel compelled, ask him about his work or family or hobbies. Don't probe about his emotions= R talk...No asking him "how he's feeling today" unless you think he was sick. Don't pursue. Be a friend who's enjoyable and exerts no pressure to be around. Per my db coach, Applaud loudly for the 1% of what he does that is positive and listen like a friend (my db coach said "listen like a lover" but sometimes that's too much to ask!). But you must listen in a supportive way when he mentions work problems or his dreams and validate, etc. You do NOT do this if he's discussing OW or overly revising the marriage history..but for other safe stuff, validate and applaud what he does that is positive. THANK him for playing with the child or cleaning, etc. It's tough when all he's doing is a tenth of what you think is fair --we get it---it's super tough but for now simply show that you are a woman with a lot to offer a deserving man and someone he does not want to lose. As for his odd choices lately, You were hurt but you are resigned and accepting what he has done or said as for your sitch. If he has left the home, um that's a sign that he does not want to live with you now. That hurts. But don't bring it up. He knows it sucks and he has hurt you. He knows this. Took my h years before i thought he really got it even though he'd say he was sorry blah blah blah until this past summer I never really saw the grief or remorse he felt...he didn't feel safe enough around me to show it MAYBE....Who knows? Who cares? He gets it now and "now is all we have".... Don't worry so much about HIM thinking YOU don't care. Let him wonder about your assessment of HIM and how he treats you instead.
YOU MUST SEE THAT THE REAL LOSS IS HIS, NOT YOURS...or at least that the truth is, your loss is much less than his and this is true.
Keep the road home, paved and smooth. You do this by showing him that you are not miserable nor would life together be miserable. He has to think things could be different for him to come back or else why come back? Hence the 180's.... If you were to only show him your pain, it becomes impossible for him to imagine a happy life with you. Too much for him to overcome, or to do to earn his way back in.

As for YOUR life, you are looking forward to it! If he wants back in down the road, he'll have to make some choices and do some hard work. He's not doing that today so you are moving along....and if he does want back into the M, you know You cannot take him back without some definitive action on his end anyhow, right? I'm not talking about punitive stuff here. But some signs of real commitment. If that time and event comes, and or you think it is but you are not sure, then I'd suggest either mc or better yet, attending Retrovaille. We attended Retrovaille last summer, although we were already reconciled and in "piecing". We knew we needed some newer tools for our marriage at this phase, plus my mil is terminally ill so I wanted to know we were fully reconnected facing a new terrible challenge that is external to a M, but can get inside it and become a M problem, not to mention poss depression of h at some point. We needed a reminder or a "booster" shot of sorts. It worked. I could say more but that's getting ahead of ourselves, which is also a problem for your sitch. You are sort of borrowing trouble by wondering about problems with detaching. The alternative to detachment is much worse and so are its' byproducts. Stay in the now.

When to detach? Also, is detaching you try after you first exhaust the other DB techniques (it seems like it would be hard to implement those techniques with distance and doing your own thing)? Or am I just completely missing the mark on this whole detaching thing?

You are not missing the whole point but detaching is something you do to save your life/mind/heart and goes along with the 180's. (Again if your sitch was about you not demonstrating love, I'd say you have other things to do as well). Detachment is about you not letting his weather pattern get into your personal climate. Make sense? Show him what a catch you are, how lucky he was to get you in the first place (what were you like when you were dating? Why'd he take so long to propose? Was it you that stalled & Him that pursued? ) and that with some hard work he'd be rewarded with a lifetime of loving laughter, warmth and the gift of being around this special little person the two of you made together.

Most men who want a reconciliation will send out feelers that are clear enough. If not, well, then it's probably not worth it as they're not being brave enough to be accountable, so they aren't likely to keep their vows again. I mean if they have an OW and then they want to come back home, they need to own enough of their "crap" to assure you that you won't be in the same sitch next year. They also have to know you won't hold it over their heads the rest of their lives either. Hence my motto about forgiveness.

In most ways you are lucky your child is so young. The more fun h has with the child, the better. (No bad memories for him to overcome or repair his damaged r with her. Yes he's losing precious time but so are soldiers and guys with long work hours who's babies sleep when they're home the 1st year or two). They still get close to their kids. My h is doing some repair work with our d20 and that is just how it is. Remember, your h is the one 'missing the boat' by being gone from home. Too bad for him. Even if you think he's partying every night...that ain't "the boat"...you and the little one are where the real action in life is...make sense? Believe it yourself and it'll show to your h. Contrast the negative images he is creating internally, to justify his choices, with positive images. If he feels 'confined' and has "lost all his freedom"blah blah blah give him some space and is even more of a reason for you to detach and back off.

I'm rattling on and it's late...so
Read up on detachment and do it asap to have a life so you can GAL...no more temperature taking of his "micro-climate"...why does his rain cloud OR his sunny day affect your day at the beach? Don't let it.

Don't let him think he can treat you any way he wants/needs/forgets/just does, AND that you'll still care the same way. Why? That ain't unconditional love...if he hits you are you going to feel the same way? what if he says he loves you while he's hitting you? Overly dramatic perhaps but the point is still valid...

Over time, It is not healthy to love someone who doesn't love you back or respect you. That is NOT unconditional love; it's being a doormat AND OR being a victim and staying stuck in crazy patterns refusing to change b/c the unknown is somehow more frightening. HOWEVER, love is a choice. Someday he may want to be fully married and committed and in a health way, to you. At that point, you can make a choice. Don't worry that you won't be able to love him again by detaching now, if it's the right thing to do. Somehow, when it's right and we want it, we can and do choose to love again. Don't buy into "falling in love" as if we are 14 y/o again. I choose to love my h every day even when I don't "feel like it' and even when he's grumpy and needs a shower. Get it?

So for you now, it's just sunny days where you are... Forgiveness and detachment & moving on are linked and mandatory for YOUR HAPPINESS....Make your life more about doing, and less about wondering/obsessing about what you have NO control over anyway..."what's he doing/feeling blah blah blah?"

Live your life & Let him go. It increases the chance of a recon, ironically, but it is not the point of it. Being happy is the point. If he doesn't come back, you'll have healed that much sooner and Your healing & detachment will NOT keep him away. Good luck!

((( hugs )))
j-

[pitinmygut]

This is such a great thread. having read through a majority of this, I am trying to figure out what my "image" of detachment should look like.

My sitch is that I honestly didn't show my W the love and affection that I should have due to prior resentments. It was very hard for me to be "in love" with her, but I never really wanted out of the M. Unfortunately, she had enough over 8 years and became a WAW. She has now moved out of the house, an hour away, with our 1 year old son. The area she moved to is where most of her family lives (parent, sisters, aunts, uncles etc). It is her plan to stay there.

I really feel like the odds of my M working are NIL. What would my picture of detachment look like? I hope that someone could shine some light on this for me.

[brknheart]

My WAW seems to have shut the door on our M. She is set on a D and is angry that I have "gotten over her" yet. I guess it was easy for her, but she really had a head start since she was the initiator. I am detaching from her but at the same time I dont want her to think I am agreeing with her or giving in to the D. Ive already made plans on moving on, and she still feels like I am holding on. As someone else has said, she can take the marriage away from me but she cant take my love away.