What to do when H doesn't contact?

[Kalni]

Hi,
I cant read your thread now, but I was one of the people that didnt spend any time alone with H during our separation apart from times with the kids. Actually this is how it went:
H gets in an affair (I didnt know)
Everything I do drives him crazy for about a year, I am a bitch, the worst thing that has happened to him etc etc. Anger and blame. Some weak "efforts" to fix the problem are not successful
H goes back and forth mentally (I still had no clue about her being such a big part of his life but had suspicions he said were crazy)trying to decide but he is in love, totally seduced, the THE FOG
H moves out after realising there is no point trying
I go bananas and I am devastated
Lots of anger (from me) and D papers are being prepared. My loosing it proved to him he was right at that point
In a month I start DBing (didnt know about the site then)
D papers are being held off with no agreement, we just let it happen
I find DB and start reading
H starts to become friendly but we only talk about kids and see each other at drop offs
Progressively he started staying for lunch during drop offs
We talk -not about reconciliation- in friendly manner and he initiates more contact -phone calls
Brings gifts, starts to touch me, hugs, kisses on the cheek etc (after 1,5 year of being careful not to)
His A starts to fade and the OW starts to complain
I get fed up, detach and fall in love with someone else
H wants to reconcile
We try (spending time together, sleep overs-no sex, MC) but he goes back and forth to her without me knowing
I get fed up
I snoop and find out the truth about the total of 3 years affair after reading 100 emails revealing the deceit and lies since summer 2006
I go bananas, everybody finds out the truth, he apologises
2 months I am mad as hell, he seems relieved
He immediately says he doesnt want the divorce and breaks it off with her
He now seems to be serious about reconciling and tries hard to make me feel better

I dont know if any of that helped. What I am trying to say is, that it takes time and in my book, when you see a CONSISTENT change, no matter how small it is, there is a big chance, second thoughts are hitting the WASs and THAT's when you need to become the even more attractive "solution". I dont want to sound simplistic but its true, when they start to show any kind of interest, that's when you need to hold on to yourself and keep your PMA and confidence going.

Frindly, light and easy going. You can MENTION (JMO) birthdays etc, but make sure if he denies the suggestion, to remain friendly and cool about it (no expectations). It makes them feel safe to maybe accept invitations in the future once they see, you wont hold it against them, or that it's not part of a plan for reconciliation.

Anything "nice" he does, should be accepted the way you accpet nice gestures from a friend. Allow room for him to do more if he wants to. And, may I suggest, not to use the kids to get him involved. The kids were my H's excuse for his actions (it's about the kids) and he camouflaged his denial to commit to HER due to the kids.

So, patience and staying cool is the way. Just my 2 cents (Euro cents)
Good Luck
Kalni

[Goodfight]

Kalni,

I can't thank you enough. You've helped me out so much. Did you invite him to dinners and things though after a year? It will be a year on the 6th and I don't know whether to invite for Thanksgiving or not? Did you send birthday cards from you to him. My H's is coming up in a couple of weeks and I don't know what the heck to do. Thank you so much for answering me.

[Kalni]

No I didnt. I would have lunch ready and say "there is enough for you if you want". He declined a couple of times, I was "happy" anyway and wished him a good day. I actually gave him a doggy bag a few times, and then once...he accepted. We talked about "nothings", with the kids, and then after that, he would linger for an invitation. Pretty soon, it became a routine he would stay with us for lunch. "For the kids". Sometimes I would be gone and arrange for the babysitter to be there, with no warning.

Aknowledge the day with an SMS and have the kids prepare a card or something. Light and easy. As far as Thanksgiving, maybe just say he is welcome if he wants and leave it at that. Not ask again if he decided if he is coming and DEFINTELY dont react hurt if he says he has other plans. Wish him fun.
K

[Goodfight]

Thanks K. Jon and Kevin, what do you think about the holidays? Play it like K says too? I think she is right.

[jon2911]

Sounds harmless enough. Good that he's back on his meds.

What we're trying to tell you here is that needy, clingy behavior is very unattractive. Try to avoid as much as possible. You have to know that you'll be OK without him, when you do he'll be surprised. Try and get off the rollercoaster as much as you can. Work out, force yourself to do fun things.

Don't worry about how much he makes, you've mentioned it quite a bit on here. If this goes through to divorce, it won't matter much. I only say that from experience, my W owns part of a natural gas well and gets quite a lot of money from it. Of course, I'm not entitled to any, even in a community property state, but I thought a lot about it early in my sitch, thinking a judge might be easier on me because I made so much less (at the time). Not going to happen, they just divide the debt 50/50 most of the time. I'm getting ticked just writing about this.

Anyway, hang in there, let us know what happens. Holidays are still a ways away, no need to make any plans that could be seen as pressure.

[25yearsmlc]

Goodfight,
You are asking the same questions and not really processing the responses. Let me be blunt b/c I think you need it, but know i come from a good place as does Kaini...
Please read the DB books and re-read Kaini's post to you and note her position. Her h wants back into their m now. I'm in a "div busted" sitch. We have something to say to you so please learn from our mistakes and our good choices...
Stop pursuing & Stop having expectations.

Stop asking the same questions hoping to get a diff answer. You must detach and there are sites here on this board devoted just to detachment. Do not confuse it with giving up. But detach and do it fast. And GAL.

I've posted so often about this and it's NOT complicated. Yes it is hard, but it's simple. What 180's are you doing? Have you actually read the books that MWD wrote on this? Seriously....what mistakes do you think you made before that you are not making now? What were you like when you dated?

PLease stop the pursuits and don't set your kids up for pain and your h up for failure.
Here's some db advice I got from a db coach, which I HIGHLY recommend you get. VERY helpful.
Let go of the anger/pain you feel, at least in front on your h & kids and for your sake, at some point, let go of it for you.

Listen like a lover when he calls. Validate his feelings and applaud the 1% of positives he does BUT set and enforce boundaries so you are not a doormat. Do not pursue as that is pressure. No invites from you. NONE. He can try to insert himself to something, or invite you to something on his days, but you cannot invite HIM and you need to be too busy in your "new interesting life with fascinating people doing fun things, to accept all the offers he'll eventually start making, (we hope). And if he doesn't invite you to anything ever ever again...you will have behaved with dignity and moved along with your life that much faster.

Trust US though, if you start GAL, for real, he'll notice and react, and yet, you must do this for yourself, not just to get him back. If you "GAL" to get him back that is a form or pursuit which is also manipulating and merely a tactic. NOT A 180 and NOT A REAL CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE....GAL has to be real and for you.

What are you doing to GAL? What 180's are you displaying? How are you modelling for your children how to handle adversity and heartbreak with dignity and hope and strength? Make plans for you and the kids for the holidays asap. Assume your h won't be around. Do not invite him unless he asks first and even then, don't answer quickly. I would have NO expectations and if you do invite him and he accepts, I'd say there's a 50% chance he won't show anyhow OR if he does, he'll withdraw afterwards....back off please.

Good luck, At least he's on his meds and told you about that.
j-

[25yearsmlc]

Goodfight,

Didn't I post a truly long post to you on lost41's thread 2 weeks ago? If not, the post there was read by you, and it applies for sure, but if I'm not mistaken, it was a long post from me to you on this very topic....

Pardon me as I don't mean to be an a#$, but please understand that it is frustrating to see you pretty much asking the same stuff when I literally wrote PAGES to you within the past month, and much of it was about how to go dark which Jody the DB coach you have, told you to do?

I mean, What answer are you searching for? The exact words/look/clothes to MAKE HIM COME BACK??? They don't exist. You have no control over your h. Never did...and You have a db coach and will you listen to her or not?, & you are staying stuck and wondering why the sitch won't change...it's b/c You are preventing it. THE good news is that if you Get out of your own way, you'll see some changes in your life. Where the head goes, the heart will follow. Figure this out and do it. Make your life happen and stop focusing on HIM...and re-read the posts so many have written here to you and really take them in. There's good stuff here for you if you'll just do it.
Please read that long post again and Kaini's, and those who's sitch's have improved, or who are just happy now with their lives. Try really hard not to make the same mistakes again. You'll only reinforce his choices and the more you challenge his choices, the more you force him to defend them. Let him figure this out as ONLY HE CAN. You can't fix this for him. You must back off and protect your children by assuming you are on your own. Don't set them up for disappointment in "mean old unreliable dad" b/c the other thing is, the more guilt your h feels the more he'll flee anyhow. No more arguing...please just re-read that long post. I don't want to be so repetitive. The reality is, you are on your own anyhow. Accept that and embrace it.
Make sense?
j-

[Goodfight]

Yes J it does make sense and I have done a 180. That is where I get confused. He was always the one saying he was sorry etc. during the marriage so I thought by saying I was sorry when he would bring things up that I did wrong in the marriage I apologized for those things and I am a lot calmer. Usually I would defend myself back then but now I'm just saying "I'm sorry you feel that way, I didn't mean to say or hurt you that way" That's what the DBusting coach told me to do. I wasn't very grateful during our marriage and he keeps reminding me over and over again about all of the little things I did wrong. So I didn't know how to respond. J, I will re-read the post and try very hard to detach. I know that is my problem and I realize it now. Thanks for the advice again.

[K4D]

Trust US though, if you start GAL, for real, he'll notice and react, and yet, you must do this for yourself, not just to get him back. If you "GAL" to get him back that is a form or pursuit which is also manipulating and merely a tactic. NOT A 180 and NOT A REAL CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE....GAL has to be real and for you.

I agree with 25 here. No invites. Stop pursuing. Stop trying to GAL to see if he notices.

The problem I recently have had with rejoice ministries and this is not their fault, but other peoples fault such as my own. People think that if you just pray them out, they will come back. This isn't true. They left of a reason or multiple reasons. In my own case, I created the world I live in. Had I been the H I should have been, this would not have happened. I can pray all I want for my W, but if I don't learn to pray for myself and analyze what I need to change for me and my family, God is not going to lead my W back into an alcoholic abusinve relationship. And if I succeed in changing me to please God, maybe he will work on her to come back. But there are no guarantees that she will. If you are praying to God to bring your H back but not truly changing who you are to please God with no expectations in return other than your own personal salvation, you are essentually using God and not loving God. This is a revelation that I did not understand and did not want to agree with people such as 25 on. I just recently discovered this as I read about someone else who was doing just that and it made me think, omg, that is me, what am I doing? No wonder nothing has changed. It was all just a form of control and manipulation. It was judging my W and not taking responsibility for the fact that I pushed her out of this M. I made her scared of me and untrusting of me. I did this. Now my girls are having to deal with what I created, not with what my W created. I can no longer point the finger at my W. I pushed her out. And the only way she will ever think about coming back is if I have changed for me and God and for no other reason than the love of God. If I am even in the slightest making a change to get my W back, then I am not fully changing myself for God. It is still a control and manipulation technique.

Anyways, that was probably a bit more than you were looking for. But the point is, I see you trying to manipulate and control the situation. You aren't letting go and letting God. These things you are doing to GAL will change if he ever comes back because you are doing it to get him back. It won't work. Trust me, I have been and am still there. I am having to die to myself everyday and realize I have to do this for me. You have to do the same thing. If you truly change for you, he might come back. He might not. But if you are doing this to get him back, you will eventually quit because it is not real. I know, I have been there and done exactly that. I am about as hard headed as they come which 25 will vouch for. But I am learning. And it is the hardest thing in the world to truly understand what it means to truly give up any form of control and manipulation. You cannot have any expectations for your H. None. The only expectations you can have are to change you because you need to change. If you can truly do this for you, then there is a chance he will come back. But if there is a shred of doing it for him, don't count on it. And even if he does come back and you weren't 100% doing this for you, he will leave again.

I saw no change in my situation because I thought I was doing it the right way. Oh the time 25 spent trying to get me to wake up. Nothing I did was truly sincere as I thought it was. It wasn't.

Remember this, true change is for you because you love God. True change will be tested when you don't get your way after a certain amount of time. That is when the test will be have you truly changed. If you revert back to your old ways even briefly, then you haven't really changed for the right reasons which is for you, God, and your kids. You have got to let your H go. You have got to realize that God knows better than you and everything He does or allows, there is a reason for that we may not understand.

The sooner you can let go and realize this, the better off you will be. 25 is right. I was wrong. You can't use God to change your H unless you first allow him to change you and really change you because you love and want to please God. Then and ONLY then if you have succeeded there, you might get your H back. Maybe. This doesn't mean give up on your H. It means, let him go, trust in God, and work on you with no expectations. If you have expectations, you aren't working on you.

Kevin

[K4D]

Not to dash your hopes, God does restore and heal marriages. But he does it for people who have truly turned to him to change them and people who truly put the work into changing theirselves. Is the WAS truly deceived, yes and no. Yes because they may be living an immoral life. But that is between them and God. And no, because they had to get out of a situation that wasn't good for them. Most generally for guys it was that the guy pushed their W out of the M. The guy has to accept responsibility for this and look at themselves and not point the finger at their W. The W simply responded to what the H had done to her. The kids are paying the price because of what the H has done, not because the W responded how she did. Until guys realize this and accept this and change themselves, they can't expect to see any change in their circumstances.

In your sitch, I don't know what all the issues were. And I am not saying you are to fully blame here if at all. But let him go and focus on you and your kids and your R with God. If you are only praying to God to have your M restored, you don't really have a R with God. You are using him to get what you want. God is no idiot and knows this. There is nothing wrong with praying for your H to return as long as that is not the basis of your R with God. But change you first and let God worry about your H. As I read somewhere, it is my job to love and cherish my W. It is Gods job to help her become a loving W. It is my job to constantly earn the privelage of her love by loving and serving her unconditionally without any expectations, dying to myself and my own desires and wants, and trusting in God and not myself and other people. It is my job to meet her needs without expecting mine to be met especially since I have given every reason to not meet my needs. It is my job to allow the healing process to take place and not try and manipulate the healing process. It is my job to respect her boundaries because I love her unconditionally. Again, die to myself.

Quit thinking about will he come back if you do this or that long enough. The answer is no unless you are doing the changes permanently without knowing if he will come back. That is the true test. If you are willing to make these changes for the rest of your life without any certainty that he will come back, you have a shot at it. But if these changes are only to get him back, you will eventually fail and give up.

Trust me, been there. Am there. Am learning now what it truly means after over a year of being clueless.

Kevin