? for people who have gone to Retrouvaille

[Lotus]

Trixi,

I'm glad you got there and did it. The Post sessions are very different from the weekend, so maybe they will have an effect on him. I hope you don't have to go to the next state for the Post sessions. don't worry about crying, that's why there are tissues under almost every seat!

[Trixi]

Well, we're stuck going to the neighboring state for the post sessions. It's that or wait until late January. I just don't think I can wait that long.

Our "couple" (the ones that seemed to be watching out for us) said that they could think of 2 presenters at the post session that would probably be VERY good for us to see because of our current living apart situation. They were very good about not making my H feel trapped- in that they said "Don't make any decisions right now. We haven't given you all the tools yet; and after you have all the tools, you can still decide to not continue the marriage, but at least you'll be able to discuss it together and be able to maintain a civil relationship, which you'll need to do since you have children together."

I'm super curious how the post sessions might have an effect given that this weekend seemed pretty dang intense and it didn't appear to do much...

[Deep]

I think it's great that both of you did make it to the weekend. I hope you make it through the posts and beyond. They are in some ways more important than the actual weekend.

As for your experience, although my W would have been one of those that were obviously affected during the weekend, she didn't do everything there the way it was "supposed to be". I was writing tons and she struggled to string more than 3 sentences together sometimes. We certainly did not do many of the things we were supposed to use as tools both during and after. One has to learn and adapt to make it as comfortable as reasonable for the WAS.

And at times after that, I felt resentful that it seemed I had to drag her for the posts and to open up for the first CORE.

In the end, it worked wonders for us. Like I posted earlier, I wouldn't call it a magic bullet against divorce, but I honestly don't know where my M would be today if we had not gone through it.

Wishing you strength and everything good as you work at saving your M.

[Trixi]

Thank you so much for writing Deep. I have been feeling so discouraged and like just giving up.

Yesterday we did our first dialogue over email/phone. His was SO short. He did say he felt hopeful that any marriage problem could be 'resolved'. It was like 3 sentences long. My head knows I shouldn't complain because what he wrote was positive; but my heart was disappointed at the brevity.
I had also had a deal crash and burn earlier in the day and my buyer has decided to just go with military housing, so that means there is no deal to come in the future, either.
I was not in a good frame of mind. I was irritated that we were doing the dialoguing over the phone and not in person; my grumpiness and the formality of the convo short circuited it and we never even explored how the other person's feelings impacted us.
Oh well. Again, I know in my head that we won't be perfect in this process; but I guess this has gotten so "down to the wire" that I'm not rolling with it very well. Sort of like the difference between riding in the front cab of a pick up truck or being in the back by the lift gate. Right now I feel like I am sitting without a cushion by the lift gate and we're going over a really bumpy road.

So did you express to your W that you were feeling resentful that it seemed you had to drag her? When you would get short responses, did you say anything about the shortness? Did you ever shorten your responses so that they were more in keeping with hers? (This is sort of like exchanging Christmas gifts and one person buys a really expensive, thought filled gift and the other person buys a pair of novelty socks....Do you back off and buy the novelty underwear or continue to give what you want? LOL- I hope I am making SOME sense here.)

[Deep]

Of course at times I did feel resentful, and disappointed. It was like you're pouring your heart out and your spouse could not really be bothered. And yes I did snap at her for lack of effort when my patience slipped.

In the end, we communicated the way she felt most comfortable in and made the most of it. Dialogue is a tool, how you use it (if in the usual format at all) depends on both of you. But that should not mean you give up - you do get results depending on what you put in over time.

As a 2 cents worth, any effort from a WAS is worth acknowledging and encouraging. He went for the weekend and is trying to be positive - reinforcing that may not be the worst idea.

[Looking_For_Help]

Hello Trixi,

I just want to add that you're not alone in your experiences and feelings. My W and I did Retrouvaille this past weekend. It was definitely an emotional experience. I invite you to read my thread.

I was ready to file for divorce yesteday; however, I realized that my W was trying the best she could. It didn't measure up to my expectations, but it's all she's capable of offering at this time. I mentioned to her in yesterday's letter that "let's proceed with the six post-sessions and see what happens." You see, she invited me to attend the post-sessions and is actually starting to lead the dialogue. These are all positive steps, albeit small ones.

My suggestion is to be patient with the process. Yes, I saw the other couples at Retrouvaille hugging, kissing, and holding hands. I just came to the realization that my own relationship is simply on a different timeline. Accept what your husband has to offer at this time. One step at a time. His participation may just increase over time. Good luck.

Kind Regards,
LFH

[SDFoundGirl]

One note about short responses from someone who teaches writing for a living:

Writing isn't easy for everyone. In fact, it's pretty tough for most people. They get hung up with a lot of rules instead of just letting things flow. They have this loud critic yapping in their ears about how things sound wrong, stupid, cheesy, etc., and it's hard to turn that off unless you realize that voice mostly lies.

He *is* doing it, so take what he's giving you as a positive sign. If he feels criticism about the length of it, that critic's voice will just get louder and louder.

When H and I were having problems, I learned to see him (and the rest of the world) differently: I honestly believe we are all doing the best we can with the tools we have and how we feel at any given moment.

SD

[Trixi]

LFH- thanks for chiming in; I will definitely check your thread out.
SD- thank you for pointing that out. He does write music (lyrics and music) but the lyrics are usually a bit of a struggle for him. When I write, it is totally like I think. (Heh-as I am sure most people can tell.)

He ended up not making it over tonight because of work being done over at the other house. But he was VERY good about texting me to let me know that he was running late and giving updates for when he thought he would be over; but finally, he gave up because they were still at least an hour away from being done. He'll be over tomorrow night instead and we will do two dialogues.

I know I need to take my expectations down a few notches; it is so much easier said than done. I wish we didn't have to travel so far to get to the post sessions; it will make it "easy" to find excuses not to go. I am grateful that he is hopeful about what retro has to offer. When we went to a marriage builders seminar, he was not hopeful at all. It was too structured (time-wise) for him. In fact, that seminar was the final straw for him, because I would want him to do what they suggested and he was resentful about it.

I have a question, but I'm not sure how to ask..if he says he doesn't 'feel' like going to post sessions and refuses to go, my inclination would be to say that if he doesn't want to go, we're done. How do you 'let someone have their feelings' without letting yours be overlooked? OR, worded a differently- how come HIS feelings always win!?!

[Trixi]

Well, color me surprised; I may have sold my H short because he appears to be committed to this process. Well, at least until November 15th when we do the "conflict" post session.

He came over tonight and we did 2 dialogues. It was good. He is feeling curious and encouraged about finding resolution thru the process. Long story short, I had mentioned that I am worn out and tired and that if he plans to keep me excluded from his life, it will do a great deal of damage. He was quite adamant that we wait until we have done several post sessions before doing the tough stuff. He said he hasn't felt this close to me in a very long time and he sees the wisdom in learning more skills and being closer/feeling more positive before tackling the deeper issues.

God sure does work in mysterious ways; last night H couldn't come over because he was having a carport built on the side of the house. Turns out the installers came from an hour south of Portland. They didn't get done until 10pm. H told me that he had been thinking about how long the drive was going to be for us and how he was really not wanting to do it, but after seeing these guys last night and knowing that they had just spent 7 hours building a carport and wouldn't be home until 2am, he figures it will be easy for us (by comparison.)
Also, I spoke to 2 of the presenting couples today who said they knew of people who really were very successful because of the long drive; they took that time to continue to talk and get to know each other.

So, I am really pleased. I don't know where we will end up, but this is the most 'progress' we've made in a long time.

[Trixi]

Well, we went to the first post session on Sunday.
I'm glad we went; I just adore one of the presenting couples.
Having said that; I'm feeling pretty discouraged.

One the way back, he said that he didn't know if he could commit to being married; but that he was open to going to retro and 'listening' to what they had to say and seeing if it would make a difference. It sounded VERY passive. He was expressing being unsure on whether he would be able to not do crappy things (like going out to the bar til all hours.)

I said something about someday he would hear about what it was like to have him come home at 3:30am drunk. And do you know what he said? He said "yeah. I shouldn't have done that. But you never..." I stopped him right there and said "Why is it that you can't take personal responsibility for YOUR actions? It was YOUR choice to go do those things. I was lonely, too, and I made a different choice. Stop tossing the hot potato back at me. Hold it and deal with it." grrrrrr >:(

I suppose the most encouraging thing he said was that he thought he might be getting closer to actually giving me a sincere apology for what he's done to me...I'm not sure what the hold up is, but that's fine, if he isn't ready yet, I don't want the apology until it is sincere and heartfelt.

I would have felt MUCH better if he had said something more like "I made crappy choices. I've matured. I don't know if I can commit to this marriage,yet, but if I do, I know how to make better decisions if we hit a rough spot."

Maybe I am expecting too much of him. This sucks.