Quote: Hi Blackie Hope you are still OK. I think you are doing well.
Quote: My cuz told me to chill out. In his words, "she is to confused now that things are in motions. She still wants to be with you but doesn't know how to do it." I hope that 's true. I can help guide her. If it's a pride thing, I'll eat the crap to save things. She does have a pride streak.
That is really sweet. Pride can get in the way. I think it is right that you need a way out for her that is not just backing down. She may feel she made a serious decision and to go back on it would be sort of fickle. I'm not sure exactly what would work for her. At least she needs to know everything will be different in future and I expect that is what you want too. But don't rush anything as your cuz says chill and give her some space to think things thru.
Hey Jiji. I hope the cuz is right. Or at least that's how I feel now. This has been a strange 24 hours I think. W was gone all of yesterday with a friend to go to craft shows. No biggie. Her brother came to town and crashed here. He was here to drop off his son with the kid's mom who left him. I don't know the true story. I suspect he has the same problem she has in telling the complete story. Anyway, the W was telling me how bad it was for a family to split up like that. I just sat there and thought what the he!! are you doing. But I didn't. This morining, the W asked me if I was served yet. Her lawyer had already mailed her copy of the paper. She said she looked at it and in a low tone said this was so technical. I read it and did my best to stay bright. No real reaction. She did show me another piece of mail. A renewal type thing. She asked what I would do. I told her I guess I'll create my own account. She said there was no reason for me to do that. I told her there was a relationship issue there. If we aren't together, it wouldn't work. She looked at me and just said oh with a funny look on her face.
We went to breakfast with her bro and parents. I usually don't go with her to these things. She surprised me by asking me if I wanted to go. There was a little tension. Her dad really didn't have much to say to me at the table. Her mom did and mentioned we had spoken the night before. I notice the W kept looking across the table at me. The talk turned to the reason her brother was here. He had mentioned his woman's family had said they would disown her if she left him. There was a lot of talk of how silly she was for leaving and such. I just stayed out of it but I saw it going into the W's head.
We left and headed out own directions. After the W was out of the lot, her dad opened up and started talking as he always has. I think they don't want to appear to be taking my side over hers although they seem to be.
I don't know where her head is right now. When she came back in last night, I was half sleep and a little cranky so I really didn't talk to her. She kept trying to make conversation. I later went out for a beer or two. This morning, she was with the 20 questions what was wrong with me last night, it seemed like I was upset and such. She may have thought my cranky attitude was because of the papers.
She is acting as if nothing is going on. She's making her jokes and being nicer to me than she has in the past couple months. I wish I knew what the heck she was thinking right now. I do know the reality of this has set in. We'll see what it does to her.
I don't know if this is in the book and I don't really care. I think you should take the very next opportunity to tell her you don't want a divorce and that you'd really like to try to work things out. Ask her if she'd be willing to put it off for six months, just to make absolutely certain, and if at the end of six months she thought she still wanted to go through with it, then you all can proceed from there.
It's a huge risk for you in terms of potential pain, but... I don't know. If she doesn't know how to back out of it and save face, it might be the solution she's looking for.
I don't know if this is in the book and I don't really care. I think you should take the very next opportunity to tell her you don't want a divorce and that you'd really like to try to work things out. Ask her if she'd be willing to put it off for six months, just to make absolutely certain, and if at the end of six months she thought she still wanted to go through with it, then you all can proceed from there.
It's a huge risk for you in terms of potential pain, but... I don't know. If she doesn't know how to back out of it and save face, it might be the solution she's looking for.
Corri
I don't know Corri. I'm not sure about that. Not because the book said not to but I don't think I would trust her all that much. Last May when when she said she wanted a D. I laid it out for her. A few days later, my brother and SIL kept the kids for a few days for us to "work" things out. Part of our plan was to work on things and see where we were in May 2004. She also demanded mandatory dates starting in June. Well this didn't happen. In July, as quick as the kids were out of town, she began to go out with her Sams buddies. Rather than talk about things, she would jump at the chance to go walking with the lady down the street. She would use valuable talk time hanging with her rather than me. Long story short, the 8-15 mess happened. She decided she wanted a D by the end of the year. Then, the mess happened a couple weeks ago and she decided she can't wait that long and filed right then. I don't think I can take her at her word.
Earlier today, she invited herself to an affair at her sister's place. She came back less than 1/2 hour later because her sister told her not to come. She came in complaining about that. To be honest, I didn't care to hear it. She had a 'tude when I left. I just got back to find that she left "for a minute." She didn't bother to round one of the kids up and make sure she was back in. She just left. Perhaps to see the cart boy. Let him help with Christmas this year. Let him burn days off to run the kids to doctor appointments so she can save her days. When her breast situation goes worse because she's too dumb to get it checked, will he help nurse her and take care of the kids. No. Once he can't grip that hooter, he'll be gone. Let that nosey cop buddy of hers come help her. Will he go to the programs she can't attend? Will either of them take time off from work to eat lunch with them because they ask all the time. Will either of them spend major time with them while she's working all the time or doing whatever it is she's doing. He!! now they won't.
I know this doesn't have anything to do with what you said. I guess I'm just venting. I don't like her much today. Earlier, she asked me if I could help her with her layaways. I told her I didn't know this year as I have legal fees. Her reply was you don't have to "help me with my kids. You never do." Well here is an instance of her changing history. For the past 8 out of 9 years, I have helped her with Christmas. Prior to us living together, it was nothing for me to hand her $400 or more dollars. That doesn't count any other assitance. I told her I didn't appreciate that. She then said will since we were married you haven't. Well that's crap too. The year before, I was tight because of her money crap and really couldn't help. I guess she forgot that last year, I maxed out a credit card to get the kids Christmas. A card she was supposed to kick in on but never has. I'm kind of hot right now and she can jump off a bridge for all I care. Right Now!! I'm venting here because it beats venting to family and friends who are now saying I told you so. Sorry for the rage.
Maybe, I'll feel better later. Then, I will think of a face saving way for her to stand down. But right now....
Yet another update. W just informed me I was and a$$hole. The reason, I went to a neighbor she doesn't like, for that matter until lately, I really didn't like, to talk to him. She wants to know what I want to talk to him about. She then said if it has "anything to do with this house" she should know. She then wanted to know why I have changed and have become mysterious over the past few days. Well, what I'm talking to the guy about is none of her beeswax. But I'll share with you guys. This dude's wife left him. Plain and simple. They are separated and I was taking my copy of DR over for him to read and get started. He's a tough guy but I can tell he wants his babe back. We bumped into each other in the store the other day. He saw me with my hands in the air(see previous posts for those who need to catch up) doing the perp stance. He straight out asked what that was about and I told him. This guy is one of those rock hard dudes, or at least that's what he seems to be. I may seem that way too. Any how, he started tearing up when he told me his story. He doesn't want anyone to know and I don't think I can trust her with the info.
She is also refering to my cell phone calls. Lately, my calls have been coming in on my cell phone. The reason, my people don't want to talk to her. They think she's crap for what she's doing and the cop incident. No big mystery there. My cousin came to pick me up earlier to go out. Rather than come in, he called me on my cell to tell me to come out. I asked him to come in to speak. He didn't want to but he did.
She came home from where ever she was and was telling me she saw a mutual old co-worker. I really didn't care to hear but I listened and responded with in a neutral tone. All of sudden, she doesn't like this. She doesn't seem to like me doing things I haven't done before this. Mostly going out with my cousin, closing bars and actually doing something other than sit around he house baby sitting and waiting for her to come back 3 days in a row.
It galls her I can see. I wonder what she's thinking? Any ideas. I actually like my mystery persona now. Why should she care what the kid does, she's wants to crap him out like a spoiled steak. Bad analogy. I hate to say this, but this is helping my PMA a little bit.
Let her guess what Blackrook is doing. She just came in asking me can I wait until her brother leaves before I start acting an a$$hole. Guys, I'm doing nothing. I didn't start anything, I'm even apologizing for doing things she may perceive as being and a$$hole.
Sorry for wasting bandwith venting. But there. I feel better. Font venting beat venting on her butt.
Could you please tell me whether you want to stay in or get out of your marriage... so I can be on your side?
I don't know. Most times your wife sounds really immature and is at present taking you very much for granted, i.e., kids, money, house, etc. When you are in love with someone, that probably isn't so much an issue. When you are really angry at them, it becomes the biggest of issues.
I'm sure you are both angry and in love with your wife right now. You seem to be walking the middle of the road very well with her, but I'm wondering if there isn't some very real, underlying power struggles going on between you. It almost seems at times like the two of you are playing a bizarre game of 'chicken' with each other.
Right now, with you not reacting the way you 'normally' do, it seems to me she is acting like a child who is getting away with something, almost like she is goading you, but as soon as you start seriously talking about relationship issues with her, she crumples up and goes into 'avoidance' mode.
I can't tell with you what you really want from her. In your most recent posts, though I know you are venting, it seems deep inside you feel very taken advantage of -- yet you remain at home, refusing to leave, and continue to place yourself in a situation where you allow yourself to be taken advantage of.
What gives? Am I reading this wrong? I don't mean to come across as disrespectful, but something just doesn't seem to be jiving with me.
Corri. Where I am right now is all over the board. In the end, I want to stay with my W. Why, because I do love her.
Am I mad at her right now? Yes I am. I do feel as if she's taking me for granted. I think she's come to expect me to "take care" of her. I was warned before we moved in together and got married, she would expect this. Dumb me I didn't listen as set ground rules.
What I want from my W is a little respect. I don't want to be taken for granted. She's starting to see how much I really do around here. She was just in here asking me can I pony up for lunch money. I have it, but I'm not giving it her. She went on a spending spree this weekend. Granted it was for Christmas. I'm sure in her mind she was thinking "I can spend this J------- always has come through." Well no he isn't.
I think the power struggle you sense is her feeling the kids respect me more than her and prefer to be with me. I suspect that's true. After a year of them only seeing her less than I do or see her sleeping. They see who is there for them. The other day, the girl asked me how is it mommy can't spend time with them because she's tired but she can do things with her friends. I can't answer that. I won't try. In the past, I've defended her. I don't trash her, but I don't defend her anymore.
Why do I stay? Because I want to work things out for us. Me and her. I didn't enter this thing lightly. Another reason why I am staying. Well....this is my house. More so than hers I would think. I put down 95% of the down payment. My credit help to cover her crummy credit
Long answer short. Yes I do want to stay in my marriage. I don't want to be taken for granted. She's said that in the past....
2 hour gap..........
As I was typing this. W decided it was time to get into me. We went to the garage to talk. She was mad because she said I was being mysterious. She then said that my going out lately makes it seem as if I didn't want to be around her. She said the kids are seeing this. I don't think that's the case. I think it's her who thinks this.
She then began a somewhat R talk. She asked about my feeling on this stuff. I told her I didn't want a D but it was being forced on me. She then told me she was mad because I told her brother something. Her brother wants to dump his woman and talked of a pay off. I quipped that he was trying like heck to get rid of his I'm trying like heck to keep mine.She then said I wasn't doing anything to show her I didn't want this. I asked what more can I do? Of course, no answer.
She then went into telling me how she felt lately. I of course validated. She then went back to why she thought I was cheating. I told her she wouldn't believe it but I wasn't. Of course, she asked me what would I have believed. She then asked about my kissing her. She said she didn't think I wanted to kiss her. I told her the truth. I told her I didn't think I kissed worth a crap. She told me that nonsense and I can kiss. I told her I was angry at her comment that I didn't help with Christmas. She apologized and said she was wrong. Surprised me.
She told me that she didn't feel worthy and that I didn't want her. I simply said that I can understand why she felt that way but she was wrong. Tear flowed and what not. She then said that she feels like she can't be loved and why didn't I show by cards, flowers and such. I told unlike the supermen she works with(guy who to me it seems are like tv/movie men) I always AsSumed she would know I loved her. She then went into sex talk and how I must find her unsexy. I was gross but I told her a man won't put his mouth anywhere on a woman's body she asks him to if he didn't find this to be true. She sat there and tried to assimilate that. I told her I read books on stuff like that but I didn't think it was good enough. She then said it was.
It ended better than it started. She did say that she didn't want me talking to her family. She then told her brother of the incident from 2 Sundays ago. I think she's trying to shake her peoples support for me.
I'm still trying to figure this out. Several times during the conversation, I think I could hear her saying how can I trust what you're saying is true. She did say something Honeypot has been saying. Actions speak louder than words. She said one of her bud told her I would try to put the moves on her. I told her I want to like heck but I have to respect her wishes and not try.
I've mentioned it before, I think she wants me to put a move on her. I'm sure she would shoot me down but I think she wants me to attempt it. For a time, I think she was on the fence of changing her mind. I took the blame for a lot of crap going on although I know I'm not the sole cause.
She has since gone to bed. I think I need to as well for a fresh outlook on this.
Blackie, I'm telling you man...even if you don't intend to make a move on her, let her know that you WANT to. Right now, she is concocting a story in her head for every time that you have an opportunity to do something and choose not to. It goes something like this: "I am painting my toes and he sees me but he is acting like he doesn't, cause it doesn't turn him on anymore. Why do I try to get him to notice me? He never will!" And on and on.
If you are too mad or it is too awkward to make your move, well, no one will blame you for that. But at least let her know, at the time, that you want to make the moves on her and that you will restrain yourself until she tells you that it's okay again, since she's the one who put a stop to it originally.
Your wife is one confused chick. Her self esteem is in the toilet and she has been looking for validation that she is sexy and desirable from other people. That is what all these shenanigans have been about. It's too bad that her kids and family are having to witness this meltdown but she's lucky to have a rock like you.
I agree with Corri, btw, that she is waiting for some dramatic sign that you don't want the divorce. Not a "what can I do?" sort of hopeless attitude, but a strong presence that is saying to her "What will it take for me to save this marriage?" If she replies that it is too late, then ask her what it WOULD have taken. Then, memorize it all and tell her that you are going to become that man.
You know, Blackie, I know that you are hurting right now (and justifiably so) but you BOTH have pride to swallow here. So be the bigger guy (your wife is so f**ked up right now, that shouldn't be hard) and swallow yours and get on with the business of improving your marriage. I don't feel in my heart that yours is a marriage that is beyond hope.
Regarding the whole kissing thing........you know, my husband used to be like this. He felt that he was not that great of a lover, or that "other" guys were these Don Juan characters but not him, etc. He alone talked himself out of being the sexy guy that I fell in love with. I would always ask him if I'd be chasing him all over the place if he were really that bad! Anyway, what I wanted to say to you is that I think this attitude is a sort of cop-out. You may REALLY feel like that, but it is still a cop-out so that you don't have to confront yourself and your own fears. It is easier to say "Oh that is just not me" then to commit to kissing her passionately and try something new.
Here's an idea for you: Since you will more than likely get shot down on an attempt at putting the moves on her, why don't you write her another letter? She seemed to really respond to the last one. Maybe have this letter be a sexy letter of all the things that you would like to do to her but you can't because she's called a halt to all nookie. Show her what she's missing out on.
Just an idea that I would have responded to, so you can do with it what you will..
Blackie I turn my back for one minute and look at all this stuff!!
It is good you have had this talk. I think what you are doing is working. For your R to work out in future she is going to have to make some changes too. Don't rush into anything before she shows she is willing to do that too. You can't go back to what you had before, you both need to change to make a future relationship work. It sounds to me like she is trying to twist a lot of things that are her problems and put them onto you. For example she complains that you never give her money when that is patently untrue and it is actually her who has overspent. Or she accuses you of having an affair when it is her who did this. It's like rather than take responsiblity for her mistakes she tries to deny them and use you as a scapegoat. That is not to say you did not make mistakes too, but it seems to me you are at least admitting them and trying to make things right. Perhaps it is easier for her to call it all off and wipe the slate clean with a divorce, than to try and start facing up to her problems.
I think she needs to realise that a divorce would not be the fresh start she may imagine. It would be difficult messy and painful. She would be left with the same problems but noone to support her in sorting them out. You need to make her see that a future with you could be a true fresh start for both of you. This is the way she will wipe the slate clean because it seems to me you would forgive her anything. I wonder if she will forgive herself so easily.
HP. You and Corri are right. After a good nights sleep. The first in a long time, I analyzed the happenings from yesterday. Let me run my conclusions past you guys. I forgot a tid bit that she said yesterday. She said that NOW when she's not at work, she comes home and watches tv with me. She then added that she feels I'm trying to avoid her. My theory. She was saying, hey, I dropped an olive twig in here and you don't get it. I'm coming home earlier for a reason and you don't take advantage of it. I thought you were putting me on. I also believe what you said about the feet deal. When she told me I thought her hooters were ugly and that's the reason I didn't touch them, I told her I'm a leg and foot man. Analysis of recent leads me to this conclusion. Due to her walking at her job, she has a thingy on her foot. She complains about it hurting. Last week . she threw it up right in my face to see. Less than 6 inches away. This was a test. I was supposed to do something with it. On Sunday, she kicked it up there again for me to see it while I was in the bed. If this opp comes up again, I will take it. If I get that foot to the face so be it. In addition to what you say she was thinking, I can hear her thinking I put it right there and he did nothing. He doesn't like my hooters. I knew it. Liar. I'll just act on impulse and see where it goes.
I may try a letter. She knows as a release, I sometimes write porn stories. Maybe I'll let her read one with her in it. I guess I'll just do it.
I did my best to stay upbeat last night. But her crying broke my heart and I teared up. The broke the keep you sunny side up. I do think my modified LRT, getting a life and doing things has her thinking and curious. She sees I'm going about my life with or without her.
Jiji. I think now she is beginning to realize a D isn't the sunny paradise she thinks it will be. Last night, she asked me do I think she wants to have to two jobs most every day of the week and still not have anything. She didn't mention the toll on the kids but she knows that too. I think in a way she's falling out of love with the idea but slowly. She finally admitted to a certain point that her friends are not pro divorce. She said her friend "talk like you do about going to counseling." I wanted to say it's a phone call away.
In a way, I am painting a picture of staying together. I remind her that working as a real team, we could be further along than we are. She may have taken that as an insults. I'll find a better way of showing her the grass is really greener on this side of the fence.
The past 3 days have been crazy. W wakes me up yesterday with a request for money. I told her she signed papers that take me off of her bank account and I couldn't transfer money. Her reply was "you can go to the bank on your lunch and do it there." I didn't think I should have to do that. This is what you do when you're a unit and I'm tired of feeling used.
W comes home early last night to find her new dog had damaged the house. She immediately lays into me and asks why I allow it. I told her this happened before I got home when the kids were here. She asked why they didn't do anything. I told her what I've told her several times, the guys go upstairs to their rooms and don't care what the dog is doing. She then said they wanted the dog. I told her no they didn't. I told her they were too scared to tell her this when she said she was getting a dog.
Long story short, she call me a liar and says I'm turning "her" kids against her. She then issued threats and such. I told her the kids will not ever say what they truly feel because they fear it will make her mad or hurt her feelings. I then told her the girl twice this week said she wanted to come live with me after this thing happens. Of course she goes off and acts crazy calling me liars and once again making vile accusations. She then began to refer to my letter and told that it was a lie and she would sh@! on it and such. She said if I loved her I wouldn't be making up lies and whatever.
I told her that as she doesn't believe me, ask that cop buddy of hers or whoever she really can trust to talk to them and find out what I say is the truth. Well she goes upstairs and wakes the girl up and asks her for the truth. She lied again. I walked in and used a fail safe I put in her. I told her once that bad things may be said about me and the time for total truth would come. She began to tell mommy the truth of what she's been saying for the past few months. She then asked me what should she ask the boy about. I told her what ever. I hate to say it but the shock she was experiencing was good to me. About time she got back into the real world. The fact is the kids don't see her and see that she's changed big time.
Later, I smoke a stogie and she comes out with more noise. I didn't get an apology for being called a liar. She then began to talk about the letter again and how I didn't show that I cared and such. I back slid to the what can I do to show you thing. I know I shouldn't have. She then went into why she was thinking I had an affair and such. She went into the classic the last X years weren't real and such. When I called her on that, her reply was "J---- you're just hearing what you want to hear." I messed up by defending myself against such an onslaught. I still hear in her voice the need to trust me but she can't. At this point, right now, I don't know if I want to DB. To hell with her. I'm tired right now. I told her that I feel based on what she just said, she used me to get out of her situation and into a house she never could afford. She thought that was a bad thing for me to say but that's what I feel. I feel like a used whore right now.
She then said that after she got back from the Bahamas, she was independent and I couldn't deal with it. I come from a family of strong women, cops, civic leaders and such. That mess doesn't matter to me. I told her that I thought she had done something while she was there. Of course right after coming back, she stopped taking her meds.
Gang, I'm tired of this mess. I'm not sure if I have the energy to keep going. I think at this time, I just want my cut of the assets and move on to start a new life. She's haning the kids over my head saying there may be a problem with me seeing them if I "%@!k" her. Her definition of this is getting what I deserve such as a fair share of the value of the house. I could get %50 but I only want %10.
If this is the way it has to be, I guess so be it. I may as well get used to the idea of never seeing the kids again. This breaks my heart of course more than anything else. As I said, Right Now, I don't want her crazy azz. I don't want to be friends with her and I could care less what happens to her. But her kids, scratch that, our kids mean the world to me. At least I have my nephews.
