I also wanted to add that I went thru a similar phase with the frillies and I do not so much as flirt with another man. Not to say that your W is completely innocent (only she knows that) but just to reassure you that there most certainly ARE other explanations and you should stay calm.
I know that when I started confronting my H about this problem, I decided that I would start wearing frillies again. I realized that I had given that stuff up because I did not get a reaction from him. I had allowed him and his feelings to dictate what I wore. In other words, I was not being true to myself at all. I am, by nature, a very sexual person. I should be that person regardless of how he reacts but that's not what I did. When he stopped caring, I turned the sting of that non-reaction inward and stopped wearing the frillies. At some point I realized that I want to be that sexy person again, she is who I am , and he can react however the h*ll he wants to.
I liken it to if a husband hates meatloaf and the wife, early on in the marriage, stops cooking it. At some point a lightbulb goes off and she says, ya know what I like meatloaf! Why don't I cook it?!
Another thing is that she is slowly showing you who she IS. She is afraid of showing you her true colors because she has been rejected in the past, for doing just that. She wants to be able to trust that you will accept and embrace that sexiness is an integral part of her personality. I know you will do just that.
Keep it up and try not to let the bad days get you too down. Stay calm and cheerful and, of course, concerned about the sick little one, and I hope you have a good evening.
What a day what a day. I did 3 guys worth of work today. Unfortunately, I didn't get my stuff done. But I have a job and I'm glad.
Where do I start. I'm glad I found this form. You guys have great advice and observations. At times, you fill in gaps or confirm stuff I have been thinking or lead me to think on other things. Thanks again to all. FV as well!
Johanna. I cut and paste your reply and read it several times during the day at work. It give me a little more piece of mind. It makes sense that she's trying to find her womanhood. In the past, she would be mad because women would always flirt with me. She always wanted someone to flirt with her. When it started, she didn't like it. Go figure. You are right about the burlap sack.
Cori
Yes my young ones are steps. We got away from the step titles a little bit. But as I said earlier, I feel as if I'm their father not matter how many times W says "my kids." I was the one who taught the boy to use a toilet using the Cheerio method(with a tear in my eye). I have the pictures to prove it. I calmed the girl's fear and dried her eyes over the years as well. This among other things I think have earned me the title father. I didn't have the pleasure of creating them or gave birth. But....
Your observation skills are superb. I know she has a problem with the kids and their feeling towards me. She has had issues with the kids. This is one reason she decided to be the on who would work a second job. Over the past year, she has been gone a lot. The kids if lucky would see her 5 or so minutes in the morning for most days in the week. The rest of the time she was sleep. They have come to depend on my. She has said more than once that we "leave her out" and make her feel a stranger in the house. It's hard to include her in conversations that pertain to day to day stuff like who the newest person to call them is and so on. She has once said something to the effect that they think I walk on water and don't care about her. They do call me first when they check in and sometimes don't call their mom. I try to get them to do it every day. She says we all s#$t on her and so one. Recently, her actions are those of someone trying to edge me out. She will make plans for them and not tell me. These plans can include someone coming to pick them up and so on. I think this is a form of punishment towards me. She wants to hurt me and she knows this does. I had to call and check in on the kid today. She didn't call. The girl thinks the only reason she came to get her is so she can take the day off. That's possible. She doesn't have any vacation days and was 30 minutes further away. Her reason as presented to the girl was she didn't want me to HAVE to use another day. The kids did stick up for me the other day. They wanted to know why I couldn't come to the party and were mad at her. She just said they're my friends. Another punishment I reckon. What does all the above mean? It means I think you're right on the money. Thanks. Knowing why this is being done helps with the sting.
Honey.
You and Jo's replies make a lot of sense. Before she bought the frillie, she was a neat person. She would put her dirty cloths in a hamper. As quick as she bought the nice underwear, she would just toss them on the bathroom floor or in a pile in the room. I now wonder if those were/are there for my benefit.
She may be afraid to show me her true colors right now. What she is showing is a strong determined woman. But I see the fear behind her facade. I see the balled up crying tissues in the garage and elsewhere. I see when her cheeks are red from crying. In thinking in the past through the haze of my former world, she would do sexual stuff right out of the blue. She would come out in her red stuff. In case you haven't figured it out, I have a fetish for red shoes and red outfits and white stockings. I don't know why. On our first date, that's exactly what she wore although it was past Labor Day. I wondering if I should just jump in like a swimming pool are ease my way into showing my appreciation for her sexuality. I hope I have enough to show her that I accept and want her sexiness.
We'll see what happens. I'll try to stay up for her tonight and see what happens.
Thanks Guys.
p.s. I'm over the lack of a phone call. It's done and the girl is ok. So I'm ok too.
Update. Nothing really big happened last night and today. I stayed up until W came home. We talked a little about this and that. Trivial stuff. I guess when she came home yesterday with the sick little one, she fell asleep. She claims she doesn't remember me calling her. She seemed to be in a good mood last night. I wonder if me not being up when she comes home is an insult or something?
She has asked me to take the kids to the elusive friend's house so they can go with his kid trick or treating. She said she gave them my cell phone number so we arrange things. This is a strange development in my mind. She doesn't seem to want me around her 2nd job friends. In fact she explained why I couldn't come to the big bash to one of the kids by saying they're my friends. She's either ashamed of me or that's just her comfort zone. I don't think I would find anything out of the way. I do tell her that I think she doesn't want her friends to come around me because they will see I don't have horns and a tail.
She does have to work tomorrow night she says.I'll have to study on this allowing me contact with friends. She surprised me this morning. It was bill paying time. I xferred money to her account but was short until tomorrow. She didn't throw a fit or get mad. She seemed to be in a good mood.
She left her 2nd job work cloths in the bathroon this morning. This doesn't happen often. I observed this and was ready when she came to get them. Following Honey's advice, I didn't cover up or anything when she came in. She didn't look directly at me but I could see her looking at "it" in the mirror. She withdrew quickly. She didn't stay as long as she did during the ring bust in.
I guess when I saw her set up for a reason to bust in the bathroom, I kind of hoped for more. But I'll take what I can get right now. Should I have handled that any differently than I did. I know I couldn't just grab her. But I didn't cover up. That may have shown her something.
Blackrook is in a little funk today. On Halloween 1993, Blackrook first set eyes on his Angel. She was dressed as bunch of purple grapes as part of Fruit Of The Loom team. I miss those days needless to say. I took picture of my grape gal to work with me. I think I will put it up. I'm waxing nostalgic now.
Nothing new to report unfortunately. W came home from work as usual. Again I stayed up. I've observed if I stay up, W seems to be in better mood the next day. This would be confusing as she has said she doesn't want to see me here and stuff like that if I didn't come here and get a good idea what's going on in her head. Opps to show I feels she's sexy are few and far between. She did look hot this morning although she was wearing sweats.
W is going to friend's to help with kid's Halloween party. I'm to take the kids to another of her friends house. It seems she doesn't want to be around me. She's said that before. I'll have to make my opps. I will admit she speaks nice and we have decent talk. Nothing serious, just how her day went and such. I don't talk about my day to her as I fear it may come off as being negative.
Honey, did you not want to be around you H before he came back to the land of the living?
I want to send her an email asking her if she remembers the our first Halloween. But I know better. I think I'll just send her some jokes.
Hi Blackie Here's a good saying I heard today to cheer you up;
The noblest dog is the hotdog: it feeds the hand that bites it.
Listen don't let yourself get down. Positive thinking remember!
Also don't over analyse your W behaviour. There is a thin line you walk here. You mustn't be an insensitive bastard, but at the same time you should never make assumptions about what your W is thinking or feeling (crappy but true saying: when you assume you make an ass out of u and me). We are none of us mind readers. Some people are better at "reading" other people than others it is true, but don't forget a little knowledge (of psychology) is a dangerous thing. Take any advice you may get here with a grain of salt too. There are a lot of people with great insight on here, but at the same time they are working with incomplete data. We don't know your W and we don't fully understand your sitch.
Having said all that it sounds to me as if your W is responding well to you when you reach out to her for example by staying up to wait for her to get in. She is probably leary of getting too close too soon. Why not try and organise a fun evening out together. Nothing too intense and keep it light hearted and friendly. Remember the song and don't go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like I love you. If you think she would go along with this it would be good, as you say it will help if you can spend some time together doing something nice.
Hiya BR! Sounds like everything is going well at your house. I know it is hard to stay positive, in light of how much things have changed since Halloween 1993, but look at it this way: How much have things changed since Halloween 2002? In some ways they may have gotten worse, but in others you are really and truly communicating for the first time in a long time. That is, you are facing the "elephant in the bedroom" head on. Good for you!!
I think that Jiji gave you some really good advice. Setting up a fun but non-pressure evening out is a wonderful idea. Court her. See if it has any effect on her. Good for you for staying up late just to see her. Everyone wants to feel as if they are special and worthy of that 'extra mile' and you are showing her that she is.
In regards to your question, wow, that is a tough one. First of all, I never got to the point of walking away from H, but I can honestly say this--I would have walked away eventually.
As a sort of protective mechanism, I began to pull away from him. I would act distant and, gosh, there was just so many sad memories tied up in my relationship with him that it was very hard for me to be happy around him. Not having sex really eroded the intimacy between us and, therefore, a lot of our interactions were very impersonal.
How did I get beyond it, I can hear you asking. Well, this is the part that might not apply to your sitch just yet: Sex, and lots of it. He made a promise to me that he wanted us to have a more romantic and sexual marriage and he STUCK BY THAT PROMISE. Nothing, not snoring, not a nursing baby, got in the way of us being intimate with each other. I came to the point where I could trust him again and I do trust him now. Quite simply, he does..not..let..me..down. He never "forgets" that we haven't made love lately, etc. We have an intimacy that hasn't been there for a very long time.
I'm not sure what to tell you to do from here, but as I said, a Date Lite is a great idea! Keep it fun and light and best of luck!!
P.S. I just remembered something. When I was pushing H away and very in love with my own version of reality (he doesn't desire me and I am unloveable), at no point did I really want him to get away. I wanted him to pursue me, even though I hated it. This is SO CONTRARY to the DB'ing advice that I hesitate to even write it. Only you will know if this is how her behavior appears to you. Take care!
As always, good advice guys. I do tend to analyze her actions. Perhaps too much. I like the idea of a lite date. But, this will sound silly, I feel a little nervous asking her to do something. I feel as I felt 10 years ago. What if she says no.
It's possible that she is holding back just to see what happens. I do notice she seems better in the morning if I wait up for her. I will continue that. She called earlier today, nothing much. Just confirming arrangements for the kids. She most likely won't work but will go to a friend's house to help her get ready for her little ones bday party. Plus she said ---- is having a lot of problems and needs someone to talk to. Of course I'm jealous of ----- for cutting into "my time." But what can you do? I like when she does talk to her. This sounds silly but her buddies husband is a true turd. He cheats, he lies and is a bad guy all around. I hope she compares and contrasts. The last time buddy was over, W seemed to be nicer to me for a day. I'll have to try and squeeze in something this weekend.
HP
For sometime, I had the feelin that she wants to be chased. I haven't because of the book. However, I may try to chase her gently as a co-worker said and see what happens. I wish I could find a way to initiate more physical contact. This morning, she spilled something on her shirt and I pointed to it and kind of traced down I then stopped. Her reaction was hard to gauge. She decided it's time to go to work. But, she was the first to say bye in a louder voice. She usually says bye in a low voice when she's in a good mood, see ya in a low voice when she's in a so-so mood and I'm leaving in a low voice when she's mad. I'm hoping she puts on the girly girl shirt so I can comment and maybe trace the letters.
With regards to your pulling away to protect yourself, she is doing this. But she seems at times to be coming back to me, or letting me come back to her.
In comparing last year to this year. Last year I was just coming off my busy season of travel. But, this was around the time I started sleeping on the couch. Not because I was mad at her, but she snores like a freight train. There was communication but things were starting to get tense. She was trying to reach me. But again, I was in my fog.
I'm hoping she will come home early and help me hand out candy as I asked. I asked gently but she said this was my year to hand out candy plus she was going over to ---- house. Maybe she'll surprise me.
I may have to "splain" something however. We have a Halloween contest. One lady was a domantrix complete with a whip. She came around asking did my W tie me up and so on. Heck I sure wish she did and would but that's another story. Anyway she was snapping that whip and caught me. I have a small whip burn on me. Hmmmmm. Another interesting Blackrook story.
More to follow.
Soon, I'll have to start a new thread. Thanks to you guys, this one is bulking out just fine complete with a lot of advice from 4 corners. I hope others in my place are picking up tips too. From the number of views, I would think so. I guess this may be the reason I'm going through this. Perhaps to help others. I feel a litte good about that but I want my bunch of grapes today. With tear in eye going back to work.
Honeypot. I put a lot of thought into your question from the other day.
Quote: Let me ask you one last thing: How are you prepared to do things differently, when you get her back?
What things are going to change, in regards to how you interact with her? Give it some thought because she might need to hear that:
Here it is. This is how I hope a 2nd chance would go:
A---- I'm happy that you are giving me a second chance. I know it's not easy for you to trust your heart to me again. I'm going to do my best not to break that trust again. I did a lot of soul searching and I didn't like what I found. I'm working to change those things.
I want you to be part of that change. I can't promise I won't back slide from time to time, but those back slides will be few and far between. I want us to start out being friends again.
Let's start liking each other again. Let me court you. You have changed over the past year as well, I want to get to know the new A-----. I want to know the passion of the old A----. I want you to know the passion of the old J------. He is back. I will let you know through actions not words that I find you the most beautiful sexy lady in the land. Never again will I reject you signs of affection or not show you affection. In short, I'm going to chase after you like in the beginning. I know a lot has changed over the past 10 years, but I would like us together to find the old A----- & J------. I loved those people. They were fun. They knew they could face anything as long as it was together.
Let's just take it little steps at a time. In time, I would like to take a knee and propose to you again. This time proper. I want to be able to move that ring back where it belongs. We can call it our second engagement that will lead to us renewing our vows.
I know you are taking a chance with opening your heart to me and I'm grateful. I give you my word that I won't abuse that trust. I want you to know that you are the world to me. I need you to fill that empty void I've had inside since August.
That's about how I feel. You can't make a movie about it or put it in Cosmo. But, it's from my heart. I want to be able to court her again just like the old days. I know we have had so many things happen and have grown since then but I want to bring the excitement of the court/chase back to her. As corny as it sounds, I do want to take a knee and ask her to marry me again. I didn't do a good job of it the first time around. She picked out her ring at the jewlery store. The clerks were standing around watching. I wanted to propose but I was to shy. Looking back, that was dumb. We had a fight a few weeks late and she took it off. We talked it out and she told me to propose proper. I did, but it wasn't what I would have done if I knew what I know no. If(no when) I get the chance again, I don't care if it's in the middle of Conseco Fieldhouse, I will take a knee and do it proper. Like a man who is in love with his woman would do.
Last night, I had a great dream with her. It wasn't a reconcilliation dream. It was a sexual dream. It was so real. I did my best to stay asleep but the dog had other ideas. I want to tell her about this dream. I wonder if I should.
I guess the worst she can say is shut up a$$hole. We'll see what happens.
THIS JUST IN: Check out my horoscope for the day. This stuff is on sometimes, off others. It's been on for the most part for the past couple weeks. I hope it's true today.
The big change you've been waiting for is finally happening. You are open to any and all new ideas and the solid opinions you've had for so long are suddenly very malleable. Of course, you have to be careful about who you let have an influence over you, but if you're spending time with the right kinds of people, this shouldn't be an issue. The person you've been up to this point is going to be forever changed by what's going on today and you couldn't be more anxious to see the results.
but do not say this to her yet!! one day you certainly should but not today- no matter what your horoscope says. Take it slow. One step at a time.
This is the difference between paying someone attentions they will like and pursuit which may scare them away.
If you like the idea of a date then go for it. I think she would say yes if you make it plain it is going to be just friendly. You will know when she starts to want more because she will start to be more loving herself. That is the time for the mushy stuff.
Just now I think these romantic promises are something like what you want to hear. But what she probably wants to hear is something that will make her feel relaxed and comfortable. Something like "Honey you look great, now lets go and dance".
So feel free to write these things down here as they are very sweet to read (but I shall have to start keeping a box of tissues by the computer) but don't give them to her until they will be properly appreciated. That day will come if you keep going the way you are, but have patience.
Crap saying for the day: everything comes to he who waits.
Thanks jiji. See my problem. The points I like in my horoscope are
Quote: The person you've been up to this point is going to be forever changed by what's going on today and you couldn't be more anxious to see the results.
I know I'm changing and I hope something happens today that will open her eyes to this. She was talking about getting a friend from the 2nd job to fix things around the house that are beyond my skills. She said she would have him do it after the 1st of the year. At least she didn't add her usual after you leave. I don't know if that's an oversight or not.
Quote: You are open to any and all new ideas and the solid opinions you've had for so long are suddenly very malleable. Of course, you have to be careful about who you let have an influence over you, but if you're spending time with the right kinds of people
I think I'm in good company here. I like the advice from the ladies who are/were in this position. I woke up this morning feeling the power moving. In a good way. The last time I felt it moving against me was a week before I lost my job. I'm hopeful that God will send that right person to open her ear up.
Point taken on not telling her what I wrote. I think when the chance comes, I will just walk the walk. I think this is a good mission statement but it can be improved. I was hoping for a little one on one time today but the kids kept bouncing around. She was very nice, her tone was pre 8-15-03. She seemed to be in a good mood when she left for work. Over the past few weeks when I've wished her a good day, her return tone was low. Over the past week, she's speaking up. Maybe she thinks I really mean it. Which do.
I'm trying to make her feel comfortable. Maybe next week I'll ask her to see the Matrix. Last spring, she was mad because I went with my brother. She knows we go to see sci-fi movies on the first run together. I may shake her up and take her first. Just to see what she does.As far as dancing, I can't dance worth a poo. At weddings and events, she always wants me to dance with her but I suck. Bad. Even slow dancing. It's not that I don't like holding my angel but I have a hard time doing stuff I'm not comfortable with. It has come to my attention that she thought I just didn't want to dance with her. That's my fault for not telling her my reasons. In her own words "J------ how many times do I have to tell you to communicate! Communication keeps stuff from happening." Well, I hope my recent actions communicate how I feel about her.
Just looked in mail. Company Christmas party invites are here. She looked at hers and threw it on the counter with a funny reaction. I'm not sure what it was. I think now that she's been pulled out of her world just a little bit, she's starting to remember the good times. At least a little. 10 years ago a company Christmas party was our first date. I wonder if she remembers.
Sory for rambling. More to follow.
P.S. Thanks for the prayer. I like it. It says what I'm thinking. I just hope it's his will that we get together. My heart tells me it is.
Well, this is the part that might not apply to your sitch just yet: Sex, and lots of it.