Is it time to start piecing?

[Hope4us]

GIMA, I saw that on your other thread at work yesterday, but the chit was hitting the fan and I couldn't reply until now.

I want to throw something out there for you to consider. Do you think it's possible that she's testing you now?

6 months after my W's A ended, I had one of those same talks with her. And I got pretty much the same comments. "I don't know what I want. Nothings changed". Kick in the nads? Yes. Did I change anything I was doing? No.

Your W has said she is still going to leave, but can't now because of the housing market. It is entirely possible that she's only saying that because she's still unsure and doesn't want to get your hopes up. So if the housing market is the case, and it was a big thing in my sitch also, you guys are going to be living together for a while. Why not continue being her friend, GAL like a mad man and continue the oh so slow reeling your W back in while expecting the worst?

That's pretty much where I was. W told me, "When S17 graduates from H.S., I'm outie. But because of our work situation and the financial situation of the housing market, I didn't have much choice, so I decided to stay friendly, continue to do things with W, both alone (what ever she would be agreeable to) and as a family, while continuing to GAL.

And ya know what, two months after that conversation, W started to thaw.

It was a long, long hard road and it's not for the feint of heart, but if your financial situation doesn't leave you much choice, why not give it a go? You had a good time with your W and kids at Disney and you got impatient and pushed it. And she's not ready yet, so she slapped you down. Been there, done that. We took the kids to Disney and had a GREAT time about 4 months after the A ended. Two months later I had that talk and got shot down. A year later, we're well on our way to recovery.

I guess my point is, it's not over until you decide it's over. And I would bet money she's testing you to see how you'll react to this news. How would you have reacted in the past to rejection? If that's one of the issues she used to justify her WAW moves, I would bet she's testing you now.

What do you want to do?

[givingitmyall]

Thanks Hope for the input.

I don't know if she's testing me. Could be. But wouldn't she have thrown me at least minimal encouragement - "I still not don't know what I want, but maybe D is not the only option". Or at least a willingness to see a C or retro?

I DO want my M to work out. But my hope in that is dwindling.

I agree that I may not have a choice about us being under the same roof. But, I think I need to pull back and ramp my GAL-ng way up. Took my wedding band off. Not to hurt her, but to abide by her stmt that we aren't in a MR.

If I'm wrong, let me have it. My skin is thick and I listen very well.

[Hope4us]

Hard to say whether she would have thrown you some encouragement or not.

I asked my W 3 separate times about Retro and we still haven't gone. W says she just doesn't believe in that stuff. Could be the same for your wife.

Have you asked about Retro? Maybe you say to her, "I know I can't tell you what to do and I'm not going to fight you on this (D), but I feel like it would be a shame if we didn't try EVERYTHING possible before we make a decision that will affect ourselves and our kids for the rest of our lives. Would you consider spending ONE weekend with me at Retro, just to make sure we've exhausted all possibilities"? Or something like that.

I too took my ring off at one point. She was in her A, wouldn't quit and I was pretty much done. After the A ended and she said she would stay until S17 graduated, I put it back on, both as a sign to her and myself that I was in this marriage until it was over. That's a very personal thing, the rings, that only you can decide for yourself.

But like Puppy says, don't take it off and put it back on every other day. Make a decision and stick with it.

And I couldn't agree more. When I truly began GAL, I think it had an affect on W. As long as you're still living together you have to be lovingly detached. Go out and don't tell her where you're going. You don't have to be up to no good, but she doesn't need to know that. Heck, there were a lot of times I sat at a sports bar playing a trivia game for hours. And W didn't ask, and I didn't tell, where I was. But I think it got her thinking. If you're not married, according to her, you don't have to explain anything to her.

And I've said this before, 6 months is nothing. She's convinced herself that this is her only option, it's going to take a long time for her feelings to change. If you're going to be in the same house, be her friend, but only her friend.

And I saw your post about the family thing at the zoo. I know how hard it is, but do those kinds of things. But act like you're there only for your kids with her as an observer.

Might work, might not. But it sounds like this is your only chance.

[givingitmyall]

Have you asked about Retro? Maybe you say to her, "I know I can't tell you what to do and I'm not going to fight you on this (D), but I feel like it would be a shame if we didn't try EVERYTHING possible before we make a decision that will affect ourselves and our kids for the rest of our lives. Would you consider spending ONE weekend with me at Retro, just to make sure we've exhausted all possibilities"? Or something like that.

I have not asked about retro, but I have had this identical conversation with her about MC. Her response is no way, no how. She "will not go to any C that involves anything to do with saving the M."

I too took my ring off at one point. She was in her A, wouldn't quit and I was pretty much done. After the A ended and she said she would stay until S17 graduated, I put it back on, both as a sign to her and myself that I was in this marriage until it was over. That's a very personal thing, the rings, that only you can decide for yourself.

But like Puppy says, don't take it off and put it back on every other day. Make a decision and stick with it.

I have worn my wedding ring all the way up through Friday. Friday, I took it off. This is not to hurt her or be childish. I will not put it back on until she indicates she wants to work on our M. Until then, we are M'd, but we are not in a MR. I do not intend to cheat or break my vows. I never have and I'm not going to start now. But, I will not feel like a hypocrite for wearing it nor will I have it on my hand to be a constant reminder of her "devotion" to me. When she wants to be devoted, I will put it back on.

I really do appreciate your input. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I am NOT a quitter, but I am also not going to beat my head against a brick wall again and again.

If we end up D'd, which appears very likely, I will never understand why she chose that path. So much pain for the children that she's completely discounting (I know that's part of the WAS issue).

[Hope4us]

It's a tough thing GIMA.

I guess the central question that needs to be answered is, what do you want to do?

If you want to roll the dice and see if more time can change things, I can help with that. If you think it's hopeless and are ready to throw in the towel, we can help with that end too.

BTW, I understand completely about the rings. When I took mine off for that 2-3 month period, I was in the same place. If she didn't want to even TRY, then I was not going to have that reminder on my hand.

And I'm right there with ya in the not understanding. I will never understand how someone can put kids through a D without exhausting every last option to see if it can be worked out.

I know I've asked you this before and you've said no, but are you sure there's not another man involved? Not trying to rub salt in an open wound, but everything your W is doing sounds a little too familiar to me.

Keep your chin up. Your kids will need you more than ever in the coming months. They need a stable parent, and right now, you're it.

[givingitmyall]

Hope,

Thanks for your post. On the OM issue, I don't think one can ever truly know (without evidence) if there is an OM in the picture. Anything is possible. At this point, I would not be surprised by anything.

That said, I have looked where evidence would be, and I have watched her very closely. She leaves her laptop open, logged on and unprotected. Same goes for her blackberry. She is in no rush to move forward with a D (I know, not necessarily a definite indicator). She is not gone at strange times - he!!, she is hardly ever gone. She knows I can track her spending.

So, anything's possible, but I just don't see any evidence. I know one of our friends (soon to be ex W, likely) whom she is talking with is having an A. My "old" W would not be the type to have an A - but I know people do strange and unexpected things. So, I'm not placing any stock in that.

As far as continuing to try, I don't think I'm ready to give up, but my plan probably needs to change. The doing things for her plan isn't working. I think its time to get tougher.

My true belief is she is confused (depressed?) Andupsept about not being able to work and mad at me over a formerly successful business that we had to close. The thought that her biggest concern, and the foundation of our M to her apparently, seems to be $$$, sickens me. $ is certainly important, but it is NOT the foundation of a M. Foundation for a business partnership, yes, but not a M.

[Hope4us]

Don't confuse the desire for $$ with a woman's need to feel safe.

To some women, $$ = safety. Heck, men too.

My W is the same way. She grew up in a VERY comfortable family, her step dad was a higher up at our company. But step dad made it very clear that HIS kids would be taken care of and W and her older brother would only get what was necessary. I think this is part of her need for $$. And no, it's not the foundation, but if it's a true need of your W's, you can't discount it.

I make decent money, but OM made more. And I would bet my retirement that OM told her at some point that if they got together she could quit working and he would take care of her. My W has many times talked with me about quitting work and I've told her every time that she could, but she needed to recognize that our lifestyle would have to change. No more 3 trips to Disney a year, multiple other vacations, downsize on the house, no new cars every few years, you get the picture, but I'm pretty sure OM played on that to get what he wanted. When I've pointed out those lifestyle changes that would need to be made, she always drops it. Heck, I think one of the reasons that led to W's affair is that I was traveling for work A LOT in the year and a half before it started, trying to climb the corporate ladder so I could give her more $$ which led to us losing our connection. So it's a double edged sword.

Sounds like you're pretty comfortable your W isn't involved in an A (I'm sure some people can hide it completely, but in most sitch's there would be signs), but don't discount what that GF having an A could be doing to your W. I'm sure she's making it sound all wine and roses. Telling your W how wonderful it is, etc. That could be influencing your W to make her exit. Like Puppy pointed out to me when I was asking about the enabler girl friend (EGF) in my sitch, most people in an A have that enabler friend that tells them how they need to make themselves happy and damn who gets hurt in the process. My W's EGF is 27 or 28 and just got married for the 3rd time. And EGF was supporting W in her A all the way.

Now that we're well into recovery of our marriage, the EGF isn't all she's stacked up to be. W is considering not even inviting her to a Christmas party we're planning at our house.

EGF's are a tricky subject. Your W will have to figure that out on her own as anything you say about her will be seen as attacking her and will put your W on the defensive.

Not saying your W's friend is the only problem, but I assure you she's not helping your situation.

If you feel that getting tough is the way to go, you're probably right. But you can get tough without being a dik. You can make her start to feel the consequences of her decisions without being mean about it.

Maybe you have a conversation with her that given that nothing's changed in her opinion, that you guys need to start preparing for D by separating finances, etc in preparation. Let her feel the sting of it.

Thoughts?

[givingitmyall]

Thanks Hope.

W and kids just left for church. Just don't feel like being around her right now. I will get over that. I do feel guilty since kids are going, but this is not my regular pattern.

Ok, I am as comfortable as one in my sitch that there is probably not an A. Until I see evidence/indicators, I don't need to chase that phantom rabbit.

I fully understand being tough without being a a$$. I have pulled way back, and probably a small bit rude to her this weekend, only to the extent I do not initiate conversation and give her short answers to her questions.

She still has her wedding band on. Not dwelling on it, but it is an interesting observation.

I think as far as having a lets get ready for D talk, I should, at a minimum, sit down with her to go over all our finances (she does this - I know, I should not have allowed this or burdened her with this). And, I think I need to take over paying all the bills, running the financial end of the household. She needs to focus on getting "a" job, not "the" job - I will suggest, but not push hard on that.

What do you think?

[Slapshot]

One word of caution about taking over the finances. Make sure that she is comfortable with that. In my sitch, my W was having some pretty big issues with feeling unappreciated. I was helping out at home, but unknnowingly, contributing to her feelings of inadequacy - "I can't do anything - you don't apprecaite me, you have to do it because you don't think I can".

Ever since I backed off helping at home (doing laundry, cooking dinner, etc... and waiting for her to do it, then thanking her and showing my appreciation to her for doing those things, my W's attitude is much better. In my mind she has a much better feeling about herself - she feels appreciated and worthwhile.

Of couse get involved in the finances - lots of things you can do behind the scenes without taking it over. But make sure she feels she is contributing to your home. Make her feel appreciated for the little things.

[givingitmyall]

Had a big talk with W last night. Not sure if it went well. You can find it on my current thread over in newcomers.