But somehow we did not connect as I felt we could have. I felt that she was a little disappointed. I was disappointed
I still get this feeling at times. I think even people in the best marriages feel this way at times. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Originally Posted By: Gynandtonix
Did I do / act right or wrong?
It sounds like you handled it relatively well. As long as she is still seeing OM, I think you need to work on yourself and not concern yourself too much with the R. You are allowing her to cake-eat if you allow her to have OM and maintain some assemblence of a family. You need to force her to make a choice between the 2 of you.
As for the 'I have no time to do anything.' statement. I think just a simple nod to show you are listening and understand is fine.
Continue to be a great dad. This is very attractive and it will make you feel better. You need to GAL for your health (both mental and physical).
There are good signs here. She does contact you, she is interested in your life. She still wants to be a part of it. You need to show her that you have to much respect for yourself to allow her to share you with OM. Read what Robx, Puppy, Kett, & Coach wrote me. They said it a whole lot better than I can.
Hi to you all and a warm thank you for your input.
WAW came around today for an hour. She has said that she can't go more than 2 days w/o seeing the boys and she had said that she might come over.
I avoided texting her to see when or if she was coming over. She actually texted me to give me 10 mins notice - unusual in that she never contacts me first.
Straight away I could sense a softer more open attitude from her - I knew that she wanted to talk at some point.
I told her I needed for her to look after the boys next Monday and Thursday. Monday for a Doctors appt, and Thursday I just left blank - I did not tell her what I was doing, just the times I was leaving and what time I would be back. She didn't ask about Thursday directly, but she did ask a few questions around it.
When we did speak she mentioned the worsening sitch at her brothers where she is staying - he can't keep up his mortgage payments and she may need to move back to her mothers.
She complained that she has no time to study as she is back and forth to see the children. She pointed out last year she could study as she was at home and so didn't lose time in traveling.
She complained that her day was spoilt as her EA needed to leave college early due to ill health ,(occurs at least once a week) - and so she had to leave at the same time.
She asked if I had heard from my female friend - I said no and that I hadn't heard from her in a week or more. (Asking about Thursday).
She asked about my parents and twisted my words to seem that they must hate her. I denyed this. I didn't ask after her side of the family - correction - I did ask after her Brother and Sister after all she had brought them up in conversation, and I mustn't seem cold.
I told her I was thinking about taking the boys out to see a local yearly attraction. Every year we go - my family and parents. I did not ask her if she wanted to go. She then asked if my parents were going - I said I am not sure as me and the boys were having a debate over it - this is true. But I still did not offer for her to go. I may do nearer the time.
She then said that she was thinking about speaking to my parents. WOW - this is a surprise! It would never happen in a month of Sundays. And I knew this. So knowing that I should believe 90% of what I hear and 50% of what I see, I couldn't resist. I asked her what she would talk to them about. Give it a 5 second pause she mumbled something or other.
This confirmed that she is still telling me what she thinks I want to hear....... keep up the 90% rule.....
She kept saying 'I have no time to do anything' What would be a good response to this ?? She walked out so that she could find the time to think, but became entangled more with her EA who is now eating up more and more of her time, so now she has less time to think.
S9 asked her 'when can we be a family again mum?' I left that one to her to mumble 'I don't know?'
She asked about what I have been doing all week and what I have planned - (Thursday again ?) I said this and that, I have hardly been home - I did give some examples of what I had truly been doing outside the house - and I told her that I was planning to go out at least twice next week with the boys. I did not offer her to come along.
So all in all, she asked a lot. I responded where I needed. But somehow we did not connect as I felt we could have. I felt that she was a little disappointed. I was disappointed, and I felt that I had missed an opportunity.
She rang me about an hour later with some things we had spoken about - she did not need to ring back. I kept it light and spoke mainly about our ill S7. ( sore throat & a temperature.) nothing too major I hope.....
I had gauged her mood right I feel. I feel that she was pissed off that her EA had cut short her college time and his health had been a problem, again. I feel that she had compared her present sleeping arrangements to being at home. I feel that she had compared her present study arrangements to last years and it pissed her off.
I feel that she is questioning things I feel that she comparing like for like in her life - and the present sitch is coming up short compared to say last year.
I say that it may have been a missed opportunity to connect more - but perhaps this was more about the questions she is asking herself. Perhaps she was not looking for a connection but a confirmation of things in her mind
Did I do / act right or wrong?
Some of what she told me will be the truth - some will be the 90% lie. The difficulty is in finding the truth and the hidden meaning. I feel that there was more than 10% of truth in what she said. I feel it was nearer 90% truth - but some was hidden in 'Female speak'. Why don't they teach 'Female speak' in school !? Chuckle !!
regards, Gyn.
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
Wow. There is a lot to digest and sieve through - and it is a heavy subject.
No time like the present to start....
Regards, Gyn.
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
I've read through most of your thread...I guess I feel like there are some missing pieces before I would comment very much. It still isn't clear to me what her reasons are for leaving. You've mentioned that you aren't very clear on that yourself. But what has she SAID. I'm sure she's said something about it, even if you don't "get it."
I guess I feel like it would be more than someone as pathetic as this EA you talk about to lure her away. She has to have had some reason to leave home and live under such crappy circumstances. Which I'm not saying to blame you, I don't know what goes on in her head. But you have made comments that she has said tearfully that she'd tried for 5 years to get through to you. Get WHAT through to you?
You said that's a "classic WAW statement." Well sure, it's classic, because it's "classic" for some men to refuse to listen to what their WAW's were telling them. When I said I was leaving my husband he said he was in "disbelief." Frankly, I was in disbelief that HE could be in disbelief. That's the problem, I would tell him my feelings and he maintained his "disbelief" that anything was wrong.
Right now she's obviously conflicted and doesn't like having left her home behind...but she's not anxious to return to that home...so what would HER reasons be? Even if they don't make sense to you, Gyn...or you think they are unfair, what would SHE tell me if I were asking her. Not "she was unhappy" or "I wasn't the greatest husband." But specifically. Not even "she thinks I didn't support her." Think of some specific events or conversations that she would give as examples. Please.
I truly don't have any specific examples to tell you. Trust me I would if I had any.
She just keeps saying that she has tried for the past 5 years to get through to me. She says that I have not supported her in any way for the past 5 years.
During an MC session she came out with the 'You did not support me in going to college'. She started college 2 months later. I pushed her towards it - perhaps she needs a push in life ? She said that she never got any support from her father, only put downs, 'you are a disappointment to me' said her father to her once she told him she was pregnant at 18
It would be true to say that I did not truly listen to her before she became a WAW. She says that she is missing the boys, and has said to everyone that she doesn't want to come back to the 'old' relationship.
On the day she became a WAW, she says that the tipping point was that I had made the boys go and find their swimming kit themselves. She got angry at me trying to make the boys more independent and went upstairs to help them find their kit. But one of her big grudges is that the boys don't stop asking for things from her - that she has no time to herself. The boys were able to find their kit the week previously without problem - the wife wasn't at home at the time.
I agree with your statement about the EA - him alone is not enough for her to leave - but he did provide the easy means ie - transport. Without his car she would be in dire straights - how would she see the kids or get to college.
We have our financial problems, communication problems, the chicken and the egg sex problems - the lack of communication vs lack of intimacy circle. But apart from her deep sited unhappiness, I have no further insight as to why she walked. She keeps saying that 'nothing would have changed if I hadn't gone', 'I had no alternative unless I went mad or killed myself', 'It should not have gone this far' and 'It should not have come to this'. She says that 'I didn't leave to hurt you' and 'I still love you'.
What she could not get through to me was how unhappy she was and how I was not supporting her emmotionally.
It is a classic statement. This is b/c it applied to me. She had told me how unhappy she was, I didn't listen, and so yes I was surprised she became a WAW.
But not surprised now - I know what I didn't do and what I need to do. But she will be scared now of trusting me and be hurt a second time if she let her guard down.
Why she won't return to the home? I think this is the issue holding her back the most. She describes it as having no time to herself - no time to breathe. Housework, college, seeing to the kids, seeing to me, seeing to family - these are things she has spoken about. She says that she never had time time to be bored, or even time to think. But now that I am doing it all - I do have time for everything and time to potter around. I would argue that it is her PERCEPTION that she was snowed under.
Remember - she is depressed - perhaps this is the missing link or the missing lever for her to become a WAW. Perhaps her perception was skewed and everything became an issue to her. This may be why there are no specific occurrences to show to you as to why she walked.
She kept asking for mini breaks with me. We couldn't afford them and I did misunderstood the value and importance of these mini breaks.
It all points to me not spending time with her to listen and share her day and feeling. I made the kids a greater priority than her - especially when we stopped talking - I drowned myself in the kids and drove her further away.
I was speaking to my stepdaughter, BIL and my mum - not at the same time today. We all can not understand what drove her to leave - but more importantly - why she has not come back.
The EA is an EA. NOT a PA. If someone gives this as the reason for her being a WAW I will blow you a raspberry. NO-ONE THINKS THAT SHE IS HAVING A PA. NOT EVEN HER CLOSEST CONFIDANTS. I have not buried my head in the sand - but give me some credit, and my wife's word and vows are her bond.
I trust her.
I have heard that her EA is going on an extended hol to the USA in 2 weeks time. We will see if this is true. I have heard it now from 3 different sources - one very trustworthy source and one which is like from an angel - 100% without falsehood.
I have always felt that there has been a timetable to all this and an overriding reason or goal involved. I now feel this more than ever since I have been able to detach just a little and look at things like in a goldfish bowl.
Regards, Gyn.
Ps Breakaway. Your post further cemented my belief in your perceptive insight and knowledge. I have never called the EA pathetic or indicated as such directly. You believe there is something missing - as do I and others. You ask for more info before making any comments. We always miss something in our posts without being deceptive. Retrospective reflection CAN be a great thing - but not if it is all that we do and it consumes all of our time - it can only drive us under!
Regards, Gynandtonix.
I can't stand Gin and tonic. Vodka is the drink to have. So long and thanks for all the fish....
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
Could she think that I will go to the yearly attraction with my female friend. Have I left that open to this interpretation?
Ooops.
Should I correct this?
Regards, Gyn.
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
She had arranged to have her Grandson today, and for me to take him to see my Mum.
Now her daughter was not aware that I was taking my GS to see my Mum - she certainly wouldn't mind. I told her on Friday that I was taking him to see my Mum, and she didn't know at the time.
My WAW only sees her GS once or twice a week and so time with him is precious to her - and she gave up some of this time for me to take him away.
My WAW had gone out of her way for me to take the GS to see my Mum.
She thought about doing it - I did not ask. She arranged it all and really did go out of her way to make it happen.
I view this as a good step. She was like making a little peace offering to my parents. Showing that she had not forgotten about them.
But it went wrong at my house. My WAW was planning to just drop off our GS and come back about 4 hours later. I was expecting her to stay at home and spend some time with the kids - something she has said that she does not do enough of. Also we had an ill son, who did not feel like going out at the time.
This annoyed her, in that I had assumed what she was going to do and had not told or asked her what she wanted to do. I pointed out that she had presumed what I was going to do - she didn't see this at all. I dropped the rope.
When I returned later, she made a sarcastic comment that she hadn't spent any time with the kids as they had played out. I dropped the rope.
She couldn't wait to get out of the house. When she was putting the GS on his carry chair, I said that he looked a little squashed. She abruptly stood up and told me to finish off strapping him in if I could do better. I asked what did she mean, and she said that as I am squashing him you do it instead. I pointed out that I meant that he was a little big for the chair - not her strapping him in.
Then she left with the usual hug and a 'I will speak to you tomorrow'
It was one of those visits that I could do no right in her eyes and all she saw was bad things.
This has lowered my mood some what.
I just can not detach at all.
She made such a big effort concerning the GS, but she just didn't want to be near me it seemed.
I thanked her for making the opportunity for me to take our GS to see my Mother before I took him out.
I thanked her when I returned and also said thanks from my Mum. It raised a smile in her. She later asked did my Mum enjoy seeing her GGS. I said that she never let go of him the whole time, and that I never got a look in by my Mum.
I think that is what she was looking for - that her effort had been well received.
Today has just been one of those bad days - but I am surprised how far it has knocked me back.
She again asked if I would like her to go with me to my Docs appt on Monday. Then promptly put a spanner in as someone needed to look after the kids. I said that my father would look after the kids if needed. She said she would let me know on Sunday. I am not holding my breath - this is her way of saying no I wont spend any time with you. She always uses 'I don't know , I'll let you know ' to avoid a direct question of saying no.
Question.
Should I ask her to go with me and the boys to see a local yearly attraction or not. She will refuse to go. So why ask. But if I don't ask it will annoy her and give her further reason to dislike me. But there again, it will show I am trying to move on and do things without her.
Should I tell her where I am going on Thursday night? I am only going out to join a poker league. But I will look smart, and she may start to think I am dating. This in my opinion would not be a good thought to have in her head. Also there are many posts on this site saying not to date or make it look like you are dating. These must have been posted for a reason - and I would like to learn from someone else's mistake than make the same one myself.
Any way, today is a blue day. I must have some at some point. Let us see what tomorrow will bring.
I did spend some quality time bonding with S7 today. Good quality time. We played chess together and repaired a puncture on his bike.
Shame the WAW spoilt it.
Regards, Gyn.
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
My WAW rang up to speak to the kids and me, and she was very pleasant and nice on the phone.
She asked if I wanted her to come with me to my Docs appt. I told her I do - at least it would allow me to spend some time in her company. And she said that she would then come with me - a big surprise.
She seemed in an approachable mood and so I asked if she wanted to come out to see a local attraction tomorrow. She asked who was going and I confirmed that my parents were not going. This would remove one of her stumbling blocks for not going. She said she would think about it.... Her choice.
The bad news was that she went to a fair today for half an hour. She said she is getting too old for such stuff. I only hope that at some point she had a thought 'The boys would have enjoyed this'. But I can't control that.
Keep looking for the baby steps; She asked about my day. She is still concerned with my health. She is going to spend some time with me - nothing too exiting, but it is a start possibly. She asked about ill S7's health - she didn't yesterday.
Question. Should I tell her where I am going on Thursday - or has the unknown put a seed of doubt in her mind. I am inclined to tell her when I return from my poker game.
Regards, Gyn.
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
no you don't tell her where you are going? For what purpose? yes, mystery, use it, she doesn't need to know where you are every waking second, that would be boring, you aren't boring anymore (or at least trying not to be)
