I would preface it with validating her feelings, issues and threat. Does two things shows she haven't discounted her in your thinking and shows her what validating is.
Tweak: Offer solutions and input from her on how to go forward.
Make sure you are detached from the outcome. I would take more input from others, get both M & F perspectives.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
First thought is, "IF" W perceives your behavior as pursuit (and that "IF" is predicated on mind-reading, unless she has specifically stated this to you or someone trustworthy who is NOT prone to embellishment) is that necessarily a bad thing? This may be reminding her of your courtship days???? It is only a BAD thing if it is not moving you toward your goal, right? I understand the concern about cake-eating, but from your posts it sounds as though your W may be genuinely confused. You know her best so you need to rely on your instincts to make this call.
Second bit of feedback is based on feedback I've gotten on my thread and from Jody. ONLY make an ultimatum if you are truly prepared for a negative result. I have edited the "midnight letter of release" I am sending to my H today (Dday in 2 1/2 weeks) a number of times.....changing it from what was essentially an ultimatum (if you do not want to postpone the Ddate I am moving on with my life) to a much more detached, receptive version that I feel comfortable with after having lunch with his sister last weekend and learning that his childhood WAS really a nightmare. Jody and I now feel pretty certain H is in a MLC. I feel very comfortable and good with this approach now, although it took me a couple weeks, a lot of tears, prayers, and anger to get to this point.
My point in sharing this with you is that YOU, my good friend, are in a MUCH, MUCH better position than many of us on this board. I think that a lot of us see positives in your sitch, although we certainly understand your frustrations. Oftentimes these dynamics are easier to see from the outside than from within a situation. Your frustration is very normal, so please continue to vent here.
With respect to a strategy for having a conversation with your W about your current sitch.......I would suggest an approach that was suggested to me a few times and makes good sense here. You can casually initiate a conversation but using general, non-specific, non-provocative terms.....then let your W fill in the blanks. If she is conversant, and from your posts it sounds as though she is, she will give you information. LISTEN and let HER talk. As a litigator you should be quite skilled at this, but maybe it's not so easy for you to do it in a way that your W wouldn't pick up on??????
Jody suggests talking about sensitive issues while you are moving around within a space (e.g. cooking) so the other person can't see your face as easily and the interaction isn't as threatening because it is not perceived as having such importance.
OK. So, maybe this is more of a discussion with validation (I understand you feel X, Y and Z, W) and with here are some of my concerns. I don't want a D, but I cannot live like we are.
So, 2nd draft:
W, I understand you were unhappy in our M, that you felt I was not contributing to it, that you were no longer in love with me. I am sure that was a lonely, frustrating place to be. I would not want to be in that situation either.
I feel like we have left that place of hopelessness, but I am not sure where we are today. We seem to be friends, but not a married couple with a great MR. And I don't like that. It makes me feel unloved and neglected. And I don't like feeling that way. I want a loving, caring M and I want that new R with you. But, I can't make you love me or make you stay.
But, if we remain in our current R, I cannot stay because I need to want to feel loved and appreciated.
If we are going to stay M'd, we need to put the pieces of our R back to where they should have been all along. I think we need C to help us do that. I also think a program called Retrovaille could help put us on a path of rebuilding a new, much more satisfying M.
But, I am only half our M, and I can't make you do any of that. What you choose to do is your decision. And I think the time has come for us to talk about what we are going to do.
Ok, guys, any revisions, comments, whatever are all welcome and appreciated. I think it is better if I make this a discussion about where I am and what I feel rather than making it about how she has made mistakes and threatening her (which I do not want to do), it will work better.
I suggest trying Retrouvaille first. It's very clear from your posts that your W still loves you and enjoys being with you. If I were to guess, I think she hasn't forgiven you for your transgressions, and if she has, trustworthiness is your next obstacle. Retrouvaille addresses forgiveness and trustworthiness in an emotionally powerful manner. If Retrouvaille doesn't work, then you can always use the ultimatum tact. Don't ruin all of your hard work! You will regret it. You've made great advances in the last six months. This "I feel unloved, neglected, and unappreciated" business sounds pitiful. You're starting to become impatient. Don't let your pride defeat your heart and intellect.
My 2 cents worth, LFH
ME: 38 W: 35 D2.5 and S5 Married 12 years Separated (same house, different rooms) INILWYAM by W: 4/16/2009 The day W requested a D: 4/17/2009
I second everything that LFH says. I see the word "can't" all through your letter. It is negative. Why not take the approach that things have improved from where they were before, but you think it could still be better. You know some people who have gone to the Retrouvaille weekends with great results, and you think it would really help your marriage. You can give her a link to Retrouvaille, www.helpourmarriage.org and specifically show her the 4 stages of marriage page. It's easy to see which stage you are in now, misery. What people don't know is that there is a fourth, happy stage to marriage. And these people can show you how to get there.
W, I understand you were unhappy in our M, that you felt I was not contributing to it, that you were no longer in love with me. I am sure that was a lonely, frustrating place to be. I would not want to be in that situation either.
Just an observation from your last post......it sounds as though you now find yourself in the same situation your W said she was in before the bomb. Now that you understand how she felt, this may give you more compassion for how she felt????
Your revised approach sounds better, more productive to my woman's sensibilities.
What has she said or done in the last two weeks. Don't try to interpret weather you think she is moving closer or farther away. Just present the evidence. What has she said, not said, physically done not done. Don't interpret lay it out in front of you. It seems that you have convinced yourself what you currently are doing isn't working. BTW when was the last time you and your wife were together at a party or event. How was she different then compared to now. Just the facts, Just the facts. Say strong. Pray hope and don't worry! WFAC.
JJ
H:37 W:34 D11,S8,S6 Together 19 years M:10 Bomb:4/09
Setting a boundary is not a ultimatum, it's clarifying the situation. It's GIMA saying I love you wife, I've heard you, I've changed but we need to get out of this limboland place. It's GIMA saying I don't want to live like this either let's get rolling because I matter too. A boundary get's the issue on the table so that it can be dialouged. Retro is great but GIMA can't go until Jan and only is Mrs GIMA agrees (the old two birds in the bush.) Setting a boundary won't ruin all his hard work, it will reinforce it. I would expect her to be angry at first, but what if she is relieved because she was unable to make a move first. We don't know how she will react, doesn't matter. Setting a healthy boundary is the right thing to do. How you say it matters.
I can't think of a reconciliation here where the WAS led the way out of limboland. Nothing wrong with making waves if it is propelling the marriage ahead. IMO taking the lead will gain respect, show confidence and be decisive. By putting the issue on the table it let's her off the hook, she can now talk about what she is feeling and thinking. I think letting your spouse know what you honestly think and feel is good. Isn't telling your spouse your thoughts, feelings and goals a trust building experience?
Staying in limboland is like the scene in Schindlers List when the one boy hops in the latrine and is neck deep and the other boy tells him to scram because this is his place to hide. Time to stop hiding and get busy.
What is the concern - she might get mad, he might find out she doesn't want to be married? What's the worst possible outcome? Wouldn't he want to know now rather than later? This isn't the same as dropping a bomb. It's healthy adult dialouge on how to deal with a problem - ala Retro.
I got some ideas on how to reword. I agree it is negative and needs to have some spin on it.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
