1. She sent a txt to me yesterday asking why I was ugly to her for not speaking with her - followed by I guess I understand. (I did not respond)
***Puppy: GOOD!***
2. She called the children prior to her "covert" concert to say goodnight to the boys. When I saw the caller ID, I just gave it to the boys. ***PUPPY: Excellent!***
3. This morning she sent a txt regarding renting our condo and asking me to make sure it was clean. I did respond - with "k" a little knock on the way she has been speaking to me.
***PUPPY: Perfect!***
4. She then followed that up with two back to back IMs. "Well I guess we are not speaking now?" and then the second" "I am stil the same person that you knew 20 years ago. I am here when you are ready to talk. I am so sorry I hurt you, truly." I did not respond.
***PUPPY: I actually WOULD have responded here, for two reasons. One, to contrast with, and let her know that, you got the first two and just chose not to respond. And secondly, so you could say "I'm actually doing pretty good, considering all that's happened!" or "Surprisingly, I'm feeling pretty good!"***
All, what do I expect next? You all have been spot on.
***PUPPY: fwiw, she will continue to pursue, likely alternating tactics between syrupy-sweet/nice and holy-water-poured-on-a-witch/nasty. But why do you care? This is about YOU now -- GAL!***
I think everyone realizes that I have myself in a situation with this birds nesting that is not going to go away immediately. It has some current implications which are going to make the next 4 days challenging, but NOT overcomable (did I make up that word?)
Over the next 4 days we will both be in the house because she rented my condo (which is ok $$$.) I have plans to go out Friday, I am going to dress up and then not tell her what I am doing. Probably hit a movie, but thats ok. Sat I will not see her all day, Sunday, we will attend church together.
***PUPPY: Perfect.***
Thoughts and suggestions on how to navigate this - with out commenting on the obvious need to change the current living situation?
Always look great. Show her that you can live a happy life without her. Be a great dad to your sons. Find ways to enjoy life.
By the way, there is still no need to talk to her. She needs to realize she made mistakes first and be remorseful for them. "I am sorry I hurt you" just doesn't cut it.
Take care.
Very true. Also, you don't want to CONVEY "hurt" to her anyway. Your attitude and demeanor needs to be "I'm not 'hurt'. I'm DISAPPOINTED, deeply disappointed, in what you've done and the way you've chosen to try to end our marriage. For the record, dear W, I think it's chickenshit, and it's NOT what I want to teach our child(ren) about how you handle commitment and adversity. But that is YOUR choice, and I have no desire to control you. As for me, I choose not to live in a marriage where someone treats me like crap, and I'm doing surprisingly well, considering. Look, I'd love to talk some more, but I'm already late for something. We'll catch up later in the week!"
I choose not to live in a marriage where someone treats me like crap,
Once your choose, decide, take a stand, on how people can treat you then you have control of yourself. A switch flips on the mojo generator and your PMA, confidence, energy, emotions and thinking start to line up with your values and beliefs. That's a boundary - how you act when others treat you poorly - it's healthy for you and your wife. It works, pay attention.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
All, what do I expect next? You all have been spot on.
I think everyone realizes that I have myself in a situation with this birds nesting that is not going to go away immediately. It has some current implications which are going to make the next 4 days challenging, but NOT overcomable (did I make up that word?)
Over the next 4 days we will both be in the house because she rented my condo (which is ok $$$.) I have plans to go out Friday, I am going to dress up and then not tell her what I am doing. Probably hit a movie, but thats ok. Sat I will not see her all day, Sunday, we will attend church together. Thoughts and suggestions on how to navigate this - with out commenting on the obvious need to change the current living situation?
Thanks to all.
Why isn't the "bird nesting" (love that term) option going away? She needs to find a place to live, you don't have to live with her anymore and she can't assume that she can just come back & live with you when she wants - how has she earned that? Why do you have to provide her with that security? Did she provide you with security when she decided to have an affair? Why are you still enabling her? You don't make her work for anything and you make it too easy on her which demonstrates low value on your part and she'll take advantage of that with rude & crappy behavior - I guarantee it.
How do you deal with it.
Here's a suggestion.
Have the kids be in one room so that they don't have to listen to any of this.
Look at her in the eyes without smiling, be particularly serious with your look and tell her "We need to talk."
Go into the kitchen or another room where you can have some privacy, you lead the way (very important) and ask her to close the door behind her.
You tell her "this "bird nest" thing has gone on for too long and it's not good for the best interests of the children, it gives them a false sense of hope that you guys might reconcile" and you will tell her that "I don't want to reconcile anymore, I want to enjoy my single life, I've been held back for far too long and it's time for me to enjoy my life and other women".
You then tell her that she needs to make immediate plans to find a place where she will stay indefinitely away from you where you live because you need your "space" and "time to find yourself", tell her that you guys should plan what you are going to tell the kids in a few weeks because you don't have to shock them today with this news, you guys will talk to the children together and explain to them that you're separating & getting a divorce. You both still love the children and will always love them, it's not their fault that things didn't work out between you & your wife. During this conversation with your wife, you are leading it, you are telling her what you are planning to do and how she will participate in the plan. She will follow your lead, not the other way around.
You use the WAS script on her and regardless if she doesn't react immediately when you tell her this or not, as long as you are convincing (and you should be because she has a BS-meter which will sense it).
Do you see how she is communicating to you now? She is trying to gain your approval. She thinks she's reaching the end of the road with you, she is realizing that you won't take this crap anymore and that you're preparing to move on. That's why she asks about why you were "ugly with her", why you're not talking to her, and now she's trying to get you to realize that she is still the "same person" that you knew from a long time ago. She is apologizing. If she didn't care, she wouldn't go through any of this effort - why would she need too otherwise?
Fear of loss.
You are generating it with her. She is feeling it. She's uncertain now, option #2 (you) is being removed from the table and now she's uneasy - it was easy having an affair and knowing that her doormat husband was going to wait for her should she choose to come back - she had the excitement of the affair and the security of the husband at home should the affair not work out. Now you are removing that security, why? You are choosing NOT to be option 2, you are taking control now, you are making this decision, do you see how the dynamic is changing? Before she was making the decisions and you had no power and she enjoyed it, now it doesn't feel good anymore, she doesn't have that control over you anymore - learn this, understand this, remember this, don't forget it.
Do you see how she is communicating to you now? She is trying to gain your approval. She thinks she's reaching the end of the road with you, she is realizing that you won't take this crap anymore and that you're preparing to move on. That's why she asks about why you were "ugly with her", why you're not talking to her, and now she's trying to get you to realize that she is still the "same person" that you knew from a long time ago. She is apologizing.
Small quibble, as the rest of this post is real "3 Whistles" stuff, but I call this "normalizing" more than "apologizing." It's classic wayward script for them to make every attempt they can to "normalize things." With the betrayed spouse. With their kids. With their parents and siblings, and with their friends. They have this fantasy script in their head, where everyone will understand, and you'll all live happily-ever-after.
Well, as Rob says, she's starting to see that you're not willing to have your own part in this script written for you, and that you have other plans for your role! So she's frantically trying to "normalize" things back to the way they were, and she's going to ramp that up the more you continue to stand your ground, and THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW AHEAD OF TIME. Because the mistake that many (most?) LBSs make is that they read their cheating spouse's anger as an indication that they're doing things WRONG, when in fact the opposite it true: it means you're spot-on, and you're getting the reaction you want.
To do otherwise is appeasement.*
Puppy
*I'm not saying this will always be the case, nor that you go around being a dikk about it. You should be civil, even courteous -- just firm and strong, that's all. If and when you RECONCILE, then there will be a time and place to judge your reconciliation efforts by what kind of responses it elicits from your wife, positive or negative. And when you're BOTH fully back and committed to the marriage, and working on it, then yes -- a negative response from her is usually (not always) an indication that you've done something incorrectly, what Dr. Harley would call a "love-buster." But this is not the mode she is in right now, she's in WAYWARD mode, and counter-intuitive is the rule.
Rob, Puppy, Coach, all great advice on what to expect. You all have been spot on.
I have to send her a note regarding a school event tomorrow night that only involves my participation. Unfortuately the kids need to be picked up at 5 (my responsibility tomorrow) and the event is at 7. She has offered "if needed" to pick them up for me. Should I do that or grin and bear it knowing i might be late to the event with the headmaster?
Carpool help from her would be appreciated, but I don't want to undo the tiny bit of progress I have made over the past 24 hours.
Rob - the condo is 4 hours away, so I have a service that handles it. She knows that and knows that it is always clean after the last person leaves. I think it was an excuse to send a note.
ME 41, Her 41 M 18.5 years T 19.5 years s - 12, 10 Bomb 7/12/09 Inhouse Seperation 7/13/09 - 10/1/09 She moved out 10/1/09 - present
Anything is possible. She might be remorseful and beg to reconcile or she might pull a Lorena Bobbitt on you. She might act one way one hour (or day) then flip personalities the next.
The most important thing you realize though is that you have more control over this situation then you will feel you have at times. That is way it is so important to put them in LBS mode as quickly as possible. By turning the tables they will be pursuing you for reconcillation not the other way around.
SMQ, no Bobbitt - that just plain hurts to even think about.
Little more happend this afternoon. There was a call to discuss s10 at doctors (which I had not invited her to, but s10 called her), she reminded me she was mulling over the D papers (trying to regain control) I reminded her that was not an issue for me. She switched gears and then complimented me on becomming an "extrodinary father." (this was an initital point of contention, that I was not spending as much quality time with the kids and that my parenting skills needed help.) She was right that I needed help being a better dad - too much time on the road, but it was nice to hear her say that. However, I told her instead that I appreciated it and that it was good to know that my children would get to see the benefit of that. Then I told her I needed to go, I had things to do.
Not perfect, but getting better. Let's see how tomorrow goes. For me, it will go well. Swimming in the morning. Can't beat that.
ME 41, Her 41 M 18.5 years T 19.5 years s - 12, 10 Bomb 7/12/09 Inhouse Seperation 7/13/09 - 10/1/09 She moved out 10/1/09 - present
SMQ, no Bobbitt - that just plain hurts to even think about.
Little more happend this afternoon. There was a call to discuss s10 at doctors (which I had not invited her to, but s10 called her), she reminded me she was mulling over the D papers (trying to regain control) I reminded her that was not an issue for me. She switched gears and then complimented me on becomming an "extrodinary father." (this was an initital point of contention, that I was not spending as much quality time with the kids and that my parenting skills needed help.) She was right that I needed help being a better dad - too much time on the road, but it was nice to hear her say that. However, I told her instead that I appreciated it and that it was good to know that my children would get to see the benefit of that. Then I told her I needed to go, I had things to do.
Not perfect, but getting better. Let's see how tomorrow goes. For me, it will go well. Swimming in the morning. Can't beat that.
You can always say thank you when they say something nice about you, learn to accept a compliment and smile, showing appreciation is a good thing.
