Thanks so much for your input. Ok, in acknowledging my wrong in my R- I gotta say that I'm notorious for calling it quits/packing H's clothes/kicking him out, etc. All on account of his wrong doings but it was too much and too often. Even before the whole A and child thing I did this, so this is why I know that I can't really take the key back, except for as you said if he stretches this thing out longer. I know I can't show H the same behanior b/c his complaints was that his home is never his home and how do I think he feels when I do that. Then my counter argument was always that he needs to respect his home, both valid arguments but it kept us in a bad cycle. Know what I mean. So that said, I know when I decided to give him the key back I was strong and comfortable in my decision. It's now the wishy washy side of me that's nervous and second guessing it. I did it in hopes that it is a motivator and b/c I do see H making some positive efforts. But then there are times that I feel like he's not doing enough. He likes living the single man's life with no responsibility - so that's the side of me that questions my decision. I'm gonna have to stick to this decision and wait and monitor the results, but I'm so nervous wondering if it was a bad decision. I'll do like you guys say and bring it up and let him know that keeping the key depends on how long he stretche this out. When he got the key he said he's coming back home - but this is his favorite line so that's meaningless. I want to see actions.
Will keep the faith. After all I did say and told hime that I was stepping out on faith. I gotta remember that.
I agree with Puppy. Best move would have been not to give it to him until he was ready to move in. But since you already have, give him the trust and chance that you are hoping will work. If it works, he keeps the key. If it doesn't, you can try a different approach. I think DBing is partially trying to do what works, seeing your results (or lack of) and then adjusting what you're doing. You did that (giving the key) in a positive mode, if he responds well, then good. If he hangs around with OW and does more cake-eating, then you will have to do what you need to do.
Point taking Karen. And that is my thought exactly. Try giving him the key instead of acting as gatekeeper to his home, see if it works, and then decide from there. In a way, I also thought that even though it may seem like I'm giving him the "control" over the situation, in reality I'm still in control. I'm deciding to give him the power to handle this and to show what he's about. I did in fact think about this decision - it just that now I'm kinda concern about was this really right. I'[m also reading my book about boundaries so I'm like, Uhhhh was this the right way to set boundaries. In another way, this puts an end to a vicious cycle we kept going in - H saying I kicked him out and took his key, and me saying but you were disrespectful and didn't do the things to keep up going, and back and forth and back and forth. Now let me see what he does with this.
Btw, I'm not sure at all about his interaction with ow. It seems very limited. He does say he doesn't go there much and he just drops off stuff for son and picks him up. But not living together and him not being transparent, I'm not 100% certain. But I am able to get in touch with him and he spends quite an amount of time with people I know. The big thing is that he says that he decided to pull away, which is good instead of me insisting that he ends it. But again not sure and won't swear by it. But the feeling I get around him and his interaction seems more removed from ow. But still not quite certain.
Ok, since I'm confessing everything today, this is the other thing I'm not telling and I was not going to say anything b/c I know that some people will think that this is not the right time but is there ever really is a right time... (hence this is what also prompted me to take a leap of faith in H to give him his key back)...
H and I decided to try to have a baby through fertility treatment. Yes, I know, a big decision. So why now. So, one of the other biggest issues H and I contended with was the whole infertility thing. It also added tons to our problems. And then ow having that child did not help. The thing is I wanted to have a child since before this whole ow thing, and I'm sure that H shared with her what we were going through b/c when he met her, her daughter was a baby and h just loves kids. So a part of his back and forth was that he also questioned, like I did too, maybe we weren't meant to be b/c of the whole infertility thing. And then when ow had the child and all the hurt and resentment I felt lead to H and I becoming more enemies than allies, all to ow's advantage. So, H says that he really does want us to have a family and I really want to have a family too - Gosh, it's been so many yrs of trying but without medical assistance. And I decided that you know what, if worse case scenario H and I do end, and the decision is between being a single woman vs. being a single mother, I chose to be a single mother. I did a lot of thinking about this. And I also feel that I know a 100% my child would have wonderful grandparents, aunts, and uncles from H's family. And I am now 32, I have my own house, which was bought to start a family, and I am pretty successful in my career, so why not. I've put off doing the treatment hoping for things to be perfect between H and I, and you know, the other day I realized that life is never perfect, life is complicated, so waiting for the perfect time will be forever. So, we're giving it a try. I've had this discussion with my family, and I know some will think different, but I'm not doing this to get my H back. If that was the case, we would have done treatment long ago... I'm doing this for me. I need and want my children and who better yet to make them with than my H who I have know for 15 years and with a family that has been waiting for us to have children.
H has been really cool about doing this too... I still can't believe how on board he is. He did all his blood work, signed consents forms and everything. He says he really wants a family too. I think his time living with ow woke him up to know that is not what he wants in a wife/family.
So please, wish me luck and pray that it works, I so want to be able to have a child (or children, maybe twins, never know) to love and care for...
So please, wish me luck and pray that it works, I so want to be able to have a child (or children, maybe twins, never know) to love and care for...
One thing I've learned is that I think prayer works best when you leave that kind of stuff to God. I used to order him around, do this God, do that, restore my marriage, but I think God ultimately knows what's best for us.
I think at some level, maybe deep-down you maybe do hope for a fairy-tale ending, that you and your H will be brought together over a baby, as you think it caused some of your problems. But every marriage has problems, babies bring their share of stress also, and many spouses don't find an OP. I think you mentioned OW about 5 or 6 times in your post and I find that a bit troubling.
Worst case scenario, you are seeing yourself as a single mom. But one thing I've found so tough in this is dealing continuously b/c of my kids with X and the OW. I love my kids, but if I hadn't had them it would have saved me a lot of grief and stress.
Have you talked to an IC about this? Another thing I am thinking is you mentioned your H's family as a source of support for you as a single mom. If at some point, you divorce, I know that changed for me, and I've seen that in other cases here, where the in-laws withdraw their support and rally around the WAS.
So please, wish me luck and pray that it works, I so want to be able to have a child (or children, maybe twins, never know) to love and care for...
One thing I've learned is that I think prayer works best when you leave that kind of stuff to God. I used to order him around, do this God, do that, restore my marriage, but I think God ultimately knows what's best for us.
I think at some level, maybe deep-down you maybe do hope for a fairy-tale ending, that you and your H will be brought together over a baby, as you think it caused some of your problems. But every marriage has problems, babies bring their share of stress also, and many spouses don't find an OP. I think you mentioned OW about 5 or 6 times in your post and I find that a bit troubling.
Worst case scenario, you are seeing yourself as a single mom. But one thing I've found so tough in this is dealing continuously b/c of my kids with X and the OW. I love my kids, but if I hadn't had them it would have saved me a lot of grief and stress.
Have you talked to an IC about this? Another thing I am thinking is you mentioned your H's family as a source of support for you as a single mom. If at some point, you divorce, I know that changed for me, and I've seen that in other cases here, where the in-laws withdraw their support and rally around the WAS.
I'm actually so glad that I posted about my new developments. I value you all opinion very much and I have count on so much you have said to me, so I'm glad we're able to have this discussion and to get your opinion. Now, I must say, I did tons of thinking about the decision to have a child. In fact, anyone who knows me can tell you how much I contemplate decisions, probably too much, and always strive to make the "right/best" choice. So believe me, this decision was not come to lightly at all and have been contemplated and meditated on for years.
[b]One thing I've learned is that I think prayer works best when you leave that kind of stuff to God. I used to order him around, do this God, do that, restore my marriage, but I think God ultimately knows what's best for us.
Believe me when I say, I am a firm believer in prayers and I have asked God over and over for years to guide me with trying to have my child and then with dealing H. The infertility treatment was huge, especially being from the kind of culture I'm from. I kept contemplating whether infertility treatment is pushing God's hand. And for people who have dealt with this issue its a major decision. And for years now, although H and I have gone to many doctors, we hesitated on doing treatment b/c we felt like maybe God didn't meant it to be. I think that others who don't have infertility issues, really won't understand. But, below I'm now comfortable that God is with me on this decision. I'm sharing with you a passage below that I know this is a God given goal for me. And I also believe like all the other medical knowledge he has bestowed on us, he has given that knowledge to use for good. For example, I realized God gave us the knowledge to do heart transplant and surgery, now one could say when a person hearts fails that it was God's time to bring him or her home but I believe he gave us this knowledge to use for good to help that person. So it took me a loong long time to come to this realization.
I think at some level, maybe deep-down you maybe do hope for a fairy-tale ending, that you and your H will be brought together over a baby, as you think it caused some of your problems. But every marriage has problems, babies bring their share of stress also, and many spouses don't find an OP. I think you mentioned OW about 5 or 6 times in your post and I find that a bit troubling.
First, believe me, I have been DB for several months now to save my marriage. I like all of us here do want my marriage to work. But is that the reason to have a child - NOOOO!!! If that was the case, I would have done this seveal months/years ago. I actually didn't want to have a child to bring him/her into our mess. Even when H came back 3 months ago sayign that he wants us to start a family I said I wanna wait. I in no want this child to get my H back. I would have made that choice a long time ago. To be honest, having this child has nothing to even do with my H. I really made this decsion for me - to follow my dreams. To have someone or people to take care of me when I get old, someone to love and love back. I know I will be a great mother and I will provide a great family for my child with or without H. I kept putting this decision off when I was thinking of H, when I was thinking about our M. Whether we work or not, I want this for now. Now I do know H will be a great father. He has been a good father. Even if we area not together. Funny things is that one of the questions on the consent was would I want the embryos if H passes and I said yes. And he is also ok with that. Quite frankly I have also professed to friends and family I think having a child is a woman's choice, not to please her man or to make the R work, but for herself. And here I am making the decsion just for ME.
I think my H's entire A is troubling!! and if it weren't for our infertility issues it would have been some other issue he would have used to have the A. I am in no way excusing his behavior, Absolutely nOT!! He caused a lot of hurt and damage for me and our families. I do know the infertility thing contributed to our stress and H others issues lead to his poor poor decision. He was absolutely wrong to have the A no matter what our issues were. And he dealt with our issues terribly. I am in fact very disappointed in how he handled things. But I do know that was one of our issues.
Worst case scenario, you are seeing yourself as a single mom. But one thing I've found so tough in this is dealing continuously b/c of my kids with X and the OW. I love my kids, but if I hadn't had them it would have saved me a lot of grief and stress.
When H and first separated, that was my feeling, thank God I don't have children, which would have made things harder. And yes, it would have given the state of mind I was in. But I realized something, that there is no one that has had children regardless or their R with the father or mother that thinks their children it not a blessing. I know its tough dealing with the ex's and children, but it's also tough not having a family one so desire. I could have chosend to use a sperm bank, the thought went through my mind when H and I were distant, but I decided that he is the best choice now and he is the man I do love, given all the bad that has happened. And in his own crazy way/selfish way, I do know he loves me too. I also don't underestimate the difficulty of being a single mother, gosh I would never have ever wanted to be a single mother. And with God's help I do hope I won't have to be, but if that's how it ends up then I am strong enough to deal with it. My mother was a single mother of 6 and it was hard as ever. But you know what, she has 6 beautiful children now to care for her, to love her, to comfort her in her lonely days. Although her and my dad have a terrible relationship, she would never trade us and we bring her so much job and fulfillment. So if H and I don't work, his lost, not mind.
Have you talked to an IC about this?
Yea, I've talked to my mother who is a pastor and to a close friend of H and I who is a former pastor, and they both know H and I situation and they both agree that we should go for it. My mother hates the medical side of it, but as she says, do what you need to do.
Another thing I am thinking is you mentioned your H's family as a source of support for you as a single mom. If at some point, you divorce, I know that changed for me, and I've seen that in other cases here, where the in-laws withdraw their support and rally around the WAS. [/b]
Oh I so know blood is thinker than water, but I can only judge my H's family based on their actions, and throughout my Sep with H, his family have been so supportive of me. In fact our R is still just as close. MIL and SIL calls to check in on me, they have been praying as muich as I have. I completely know that regardless of H, they love me as much I have love them. The only bad thing is taht my R is kinda even closer with them than H's R is. So I know they will love this child no matter what, b/c they have loved me no matter what. Even H's grandparents have said we can't turn our back's on V. It was so sweet.
So hope that answers all questions. I know it is a tough decision, but it is a decision for me.
So here is what inspires me and I hope it inspires others in their sitch too...
"Hebrews 11 is one of my favorite passages in the whole Bible. It's often called "The Hall of Faith" – Noah. Abraham. Joseph. Moses. They all had their own unique dream that God placed in their hearts. Long before they saw their dreams come to pass, they could see them. Can you see your name listed with theirs? God can. The same God who placed dreams in each of these heroes of the Bible has placed a great dream inside of you. Whenever the dream inside you begins to show itself, there will be challenges, adversity and people telling you to give up. But the key is to KNOW that you KNOW that God will make good on His promise … and keep believing in and obeying God even when everything and EVERYONE around you is telling you to quit. No one else can accomplish the dream God gave you. God planted the dream in your heart. No one else can do it for you. Through faith and obedience to God's Word, you can accomplish it, but you've got to take action. Dreams only come true when the dreamer takes action.
If you are unsure of the dream, ask God to give you wisdom and clarity. Maybe you're having a hard time holding on to it because of the pressures of life. Or maybe you've been waiting and this is your moment to step out and move forward in faith!"
Vicky, I am going to wade in with my usual tidal wave! Sorry! IMHO, I would not have any babies until you have a stable M and have sorted everything out. Even stable marriages can fall apart with the stress of having a child, and twins is double the work. I know because I have twins and I would've gone insane if I hadn't had a H who was totally involved. Yet, we still had problems later in life. Thank goodness, our twins and other kids are grown up (except teen daughter).
I won't deny how wonderful it is to be a mother, but it comes with it's own problems and sacrifices ---- the stress of worrying about them when going through a marital crisis is more pain than the actual crisis.
I know you probably have already made up your mind, but Dr. Phil has an interesting take on deciding to have a child: http://drphil.com/articles/article/96
Also, remember that you have already said that you make decisions only to regret them later (i.e. the key issue). I would hate for this to happen with a child/ren. I was a single mom for a couple of years with my eldest child and it was not easy. Also, your H may be going along with this because he feels guilty about having a child with OW. The only reason he should be doing this is because he's coming back and going to work on a stable marriage with you, and then build a family together, not because "oh well, he is there".
Quote:
I really made this decsion for me - to follow my dreams. To have someone or people to take care of me when I get old, someone to love and love back.
This worries me.
In the end, it really is no business of ours what decision you make. I'm sure you will be a great mom. I just wonder, though, what pain you may be setting up for yourself.
Hebrews is also one of my favorite books in the Bible. Take care.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
