Sorry Pup, I am not the most eloquent of writers. My criticism is directed at the violating third party not you or anyone on this forum...
I have been following this forum for a very long time and I have seen some scathing posts from yourself as well.
Affairs aren't something to get sentimental about. I have as much respect for someone who has an affair and ENDS it to return home as I do for the spouse left abandoned at home who decides to fight for his partner.
Unfortunately affairs have consequences...lack of sex is one of them. Absence of sex is something BOTH spouses experience and both should support each other through.
The whole affair story is tragic...but more start up every day...
That's certainly not my fault..I detest affairs.
whatdidido...I am sorry for what you are going through...as I said the same thing is happening here...no intimate contact...for a very long time...much longer than you in fact.
It takes a LONG TIME for many spouses to get to a point of comfort again.
Ending the affair in your head and heart is the first step to getting there...you will get there...you and your husband have to do the work and support each other on those difficult days...
Wow, so much to respond to...and I'm not good at doing the "quote thing" on here....
Let me start by saying thank you, Pup, for speaking up. I appreciate it. And, Kat, thanks for your thoughts, too.
Allen....I can honestly say that there is nothing you can say to make me feel worse about what I did. I'm there. I know I have consequences. I face what I did everyday, and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't have regrets. In fact, forgiveness was something I was working on within myself, and I'm not there yet. I don't see it going away ever and people have been telling me I should probably see a counselor because of it.
I feel the anger in your own situation in your post, and I understand why you said things the way you did.
I take what you say with a grain of salt because you don't know me, and you don't know my husband, and you see what I say through the lens of your experience. With that said, I DO listen to what you (and all people who post) say because I need other points of view to LEARN. Ultimately, I make my choices based upon my own thoughts and views and background. It is what a forum like this is for...I see it as a place I can get advice on things, support, and different ways to look at things that I may not see. If it were not for this forum, and some of the posters here at the beginning (Jeff, Hopeful4her, Hope4us, Puppy, Kat, Karen, and Sara, to name just a few) I'm not sure I would have made it. If they had bashed me for making the mistakes I made, instead of helping me, I would have left. I've matured now, and can take what is given me. That being said, Allen, you really decided to let me have it.
Ok, let's try to have a respectful conversation about this. We can maybe learn from one another. Maybe not, though, because I feel like my situation is more involved than most. There are things I didn't share about my H because it isn't something I have control over. I can only control myself and my actions. Whatever my H has done doesn't give me the right to do what I did, and so I keep that to myself. But, you have to know that there are always two sides to every story. Right?
COnsequences. Lack of sex was not a consequence of my affair. There has been lack of sex since the first year of marriage. He never seemed to want it, and I did. The frustration I have is that I want this to change so that I don't get the same feelings I had right before having the affair last time. We talked about our sex life back then, and he knew there were problems but didn't do anything about them. Over 10 years of a lack of sex life, with me asking him to get help, trying to NOT talk about it, trying to talk about it, trying counseling together, trying to initiate, trying not to initiate, reading books, you name it, I tried it. He feels now that he drove me to the affair. I tell him that it was a choice that I made not him, and it was the wrong one, but he knows that the lack of sex did not help. Even with that knowledge, we are still having problems. That's the frustration I am having.
You said that the same thing is happening with you, Allen. Were you in a ssm BEFORE the affair with her wanting it and you not wanting it?
You said, "Ending the affair in your head and heart is the first step to getting there..." Yes. The OM still invades my thoughts. Can you see why? I have not had sex for a year, same old story from the 10+ years before the affair, and I am suppose to not think about the OM. I don't want to. I stop my thoughts as much as I can. When they come up, I stop them, thinking of other things. I pray. And, I will continue to do that.
As for warming my bed with the knowledge that I made the better choice.......I'm used to that, I've been doing that for over 10 years.
I complain. You are saying I have no right. Maybe I don't. I'm just trying to figure out how to fix it or ways to get through it. Maybe someone has been through this and has something that might help me. If not, I am patient and I keep working and praying and I wait...just like I did before the affair.
You said, "Every time I go to bed at night and want to be intimate and your husband isn't interested...guess what...tick off one time you had sex with your affair partner and your husband was out of the loop". I get what you are saying....it is the consequences and what I deserve as payback. I get it. Let me also have you look at it this way: every time he goes to bed at night and sleeps next to me and decides he doesn't want me in the way a lover/spouse should, he builds another brick on my wall of self preservation that I started at 10 years ago when this began. And, he tells me (by his actions) once again that I am not beautiful, not special, not desireable, and not loved.
Endless cycle is what it is.
The OM. My heart tells me to let it lie and leave the past in the past and keep working on my marriage and not let the OM have any power over my marriage. I could bare my soul but it would not help us. I'm suppose to tell him SOME things but not others? If I start telling him things it brings up other things which brings up the past and the past is something I'm trying to move from. IF my H asked me things, I would answer him. H says he doesn't want to. I've talked this over with a priest.
I may eventually think differently, though. I am pondering what Hope and Puppy said. Is keeping this from him something that could keep me away from him emotionally? I'm not sure yet. I think bringing it up would keep him away from my emotionally because he already has other things he is working on in his head (from before the affair). I'm reading the PM book, and then I am going to look into some counseling at least for myself and that may help me see if baring my soul to him about something that I want to keep in my past is a helpful thing. I don't know. I'm still working through it in my head.
Thank you for taking the extra time to digest my post. I am not the clearest of writers at times. I am not trying to let you "have it" so to speak.
There are consequences to affairs. They are like credit cards, you puchase item after item and now you are heavily in debt and have a lot to reply..it happens. I am NOT trying to suggest you are a horrible person for that...you ARE doing the work.
I just got a sense that you felt surprise or frustration with your husband for the situation.
Yes, its not just the affair. You will find that after the affair is over many couples suddenly find themselves in the same routines as before the affair started...home not so sweet home again...this is a phase.
I dont' think anyone can expect or ask an affair to end and have things go smoothly after that..it takes months or even years to get to a synthesis of the good stuff in your old marriage along with new changes for the better.
You feel terrible and unwanted. I understand that. Your husband feels the same way...much worse than you do perhaps since he was the one out of the loop.
You need to get this fantays out of your head though...that's all he is. Affairs HIDE reality for the time they are alive...if you go to that guy for a regular relationship over time it will become your marriage all over again but it will be much worse...because you wont' have a mature man beside you...you would just have a childish cruel subhuman thing...
You may feel like it will be all spectacular with him, but I promise you LONG TERM it will feel worse than where you are now...more than 99% of the time affair couples run away together and the relationship fizzles a slow and painful death..often with another affair finishing the first one off...
It's your own imagination you have to combat here...that's not him in your head, its just your perception of what you feel things may be like..it won't be...it might for a time, but it won't last...
Its just like a piece of bubble gum..the taste never lasts forever and once its done you have to toss it away and go clean your teeth.
It feels great, but it won't last...you have this idea in yoru head that it will but it won't...they hardly EVER do.
I think you really need to see the maturity level of this person and the damage that he's STILL doing to your son and your husband and yourself and focus on that instead of these images in your head.
The truth of him is right in front of you...
I am just afraid your husband will find out he is calling eventually and you will have a LOT of work to re-do if that happens...
I am just appaled that this guy is still harassing your home...i really do think he belongs in jail...I am sorry that he's not maturing at all and wants to keep making things difficult...if i were in your area I would talk to him myself...
You talk to her as if she doesn't already know all of this! Honestly, do you think you are educating her?
Didi, for what it's worth....I agree with you about not telling your H. Nobody knows him as well as you do, and if you are protecting him from farther pain, then I see no reason to put him through that. I personally do not see any good that would come from informing him that OM tried to contact you and it sure could make matters worse. As long as you do not see it as a "cover up" in case you might change your mind toward OM (know what I mean). However, I think that you need to delete all messages from your computer. Wipe OM out once and for all. I know how some will see this, but I think you know where I'm coming from. As long as you can go into that email and read what OM sent you.....it will be a source of temptation.
I know what you mean by the invading thoughts, but it does not make you a bad person simply b/c some thought of him pops up in your mind. We don't have control over dreams, and we don't have control over things that pop into our mind....but it is what we choose to do with it once it enters into our mind. Will we mull it over and allow it to expand or will we dismiss it and delibertly find something else to fill our thoughts. You have said that that is what you do.
Do you feel that you made the right decision, but have not had much encouragement to stay in the R that you chose? Your H is not the only one who suffered throughout those 10 years, and he has not been the only one to suffer as a result of the A. Maybe some people have it in their head that a WAW never hurts, but that is b/c they don't know everything. Won't get into all of that, but you know what I'm talking about. I'm saying however, that you should not feel guilty for wanting to have a better sex life with your H than you do...and to "accept" it as your punishment or consequense don't cut the mustard. He almost lost you once and I would think that if he would want to have a better MR and therefore agree to go to MC. But, if a man don't want to go....we usually can't make them. However, you can go for yourself. I hope you will. You did the right thing by staying in your M, and you have been working at it....so you deserve to have a happy R. I hope you can find the "right" counselor that can help both of you.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have read a lot of your posts on here and have always felt great respect for the way you are fighting for your M.
When it comes to the question of OM making contact and whether to tell your H or not, I feel that by not telling your H you are treating him like a child. Who are you to censor what knowledge he has - surely the truth is the best? If I found out that OW had contacted my H and he had not told me- even if he had not responded to her - I would be out the door. If he told me I would feel happier as I would know that he was being open with me; I KNOW that it would be hard for my H to tell me that but I would feel respect for him that he had the balls to do it.
The divide between those who think you should admit the contact and those that don't seems to fall between those who have been betrayed and those who have betrayed - can you see that? If you are thinking about your H then tell him the truth. The fact that it is an issue at all with you, and that you did not just discuss it with your H immediately, signals warning bells to me.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Didi, for what it's worth....I agree with you about not telling your H. Nobody knows him as well as you do, and if you are protecting him from farther pain, then I see no reason to put him through that. I personally do not see any good that would come from informing him that OM tried to contact you and it sure could make matters worse. As long as you do not see it as a "cover up" in case you might change your mind toward OM (know what I mean).
Sandi, with all due respect, I don't think the most important thing is how SHE sees this lie of omission. The most important thing is going to be how her HUSBAND sees it, if he finds out about it, and I'm betting he'll see it as another reason not to trust her, and it will destroy trust and intimacy between them, which is NOT what they need right now.
In my opinion, the "good" that can come of it is a deeper level of trust and intimacy.
Pup, I am on board with you here, and saffie as well.
If there is any chance of the husband finding out..its best that he learns it from you, whatdidido.
And unless you are planning on changing all contact info asap...I suspect that time when your husband learns is soon approaching...
It's gonna hurt him...but the hurt will be offset by your voluntary honesty...if you wait too long, you lose the chance to volunteer honesty...and the harm will come full force on your home and you will regret not speaking up when you had the chance...
If this was me, i would want to know too...and more importantly I would want to know that my partner handled it the most protective way possible for our home...
I 100% think you should change your contact info, your phone # if that's how OM contacted you and keep the new # unlisted. After doing that, then I would tell your H the truth and that you've changed your contact info so it won't happen again. I think that would help reassure him that you're on the same page or whatever...
Sandi- Thank you so much for posting. No, it's not a "cover up" in case I might change my mind toward OM. I'm in this marriage for the long haul. I will never leave him. I'm absolutely positive of that. I'm just working on this as best as I can. True, about keeping the emails. They are gone.
Thank you for the validation on the OM thoughts I am having. I'm stopping them as quickly as I can, but I would be lying if I said they don't come into my mind. I am doing my best. I do feel I made the right decision in staying in my marriage. I just don't want to live the way we did before. It's going to take a long time, and I know this. I'm not going anywhere.
I posted to see if there was any advice regarding what I am going through and how to make it through. You're right that the former WAW does hurt. I'm frustrated that this thing had gone on so long before (10 years or more) and this was his problem. I couldn't do anything to fix it, it had to be him....and it is still here. Just frustrated. He's open to doing what he needs to do. I was expressing my feelings about it. I think he'd go to MC if I asked him to. We are both kind of wondering what direction to take. So, based upon some other advice, we are reading books first, and then we will go from there. There is a part of me that thinks if we "break the seal" on the no sex thing, that we will be fine slowly but surely. WE are both so scared about it. THIS Is the main issue here...not the OM.
Thanks again, Sandi, I was hoping you would post.
Sandi, Saffie, Puppy, Allen, and Karen...about the OM. You got me thinking. My decision on this I do not take lightly. I'll think aloud: Sandi is right, it could make matters a lot worse. It will cause unnecessary pain. Saffie says by not telling I will be treating him like a child. Because I'm censoring what I tell him, right? Yeah, I can see that....but even if I tell him that he contacted me, I would have to censor other things anyway....should I tell him that he works 3 blocks away, that I still think about him off and on, all of the past things he and I did and said, etc....all of which he already told me he didn't want to talk about and he wanted to leave the past in the past (He said this before Retrouvaille, and reiterated it again after)....I know my H. He is not like Puppy or Hope or Allen (from what I gather so far). This would not help him, this would cause him pain. Unnecessarily. If I was swaying and thinking OM might be the man I want to be with again, and feel like I was second guessing myself...that would be different. But, I'm not. I know what Saffie is saying that if it were her, she would feel happy that her spouse was open with her. I guess my H would, too, but only that point would make him happy.....then, about 30 minutes later the pain and thoughts would set it and that would last forever. I've hurt him so much already.
Puppy says it is most important how my H sees it. If I was hiding this because I thought, as Sandi said, that OM might be a possibility in the future...he would see me not telling him as bad. But my reason is because I don't want to hurt him more. So, I would see that as loving. Ok, the kicker is the intimacy. Will me not tell him destroy intimacy? I'm not sure if the pain will help or worsen intimacy. I don't know....
Allen says that it is best learning it from me if he ever finds out. Probably, and yet it would be worth the chance that he never has to find out because if he did he would understand why I didn't tell him those things. The hurt would not be offset by my voluntary honesty....I'm not worried about me, here, I'm worried about my H. I think he would respect me and be "ok" about hearing this..there would be no anger and I would even bet he would be kind and caring as I told him....but then, he has to add this to the whole other slew of things in his head that he deals with as it is. You just don't understand or know him in that way.
Karen said I should change my info. H knows OM could contact my home phone. I suggested we change it earlier and he did not want to. I could change my email. He never had it, but it is my name so that's how he must have figured it out. I will do that.
Ok..still thinking out loud....if I tell him JUSt that he contacted me...by email and phone...he will want to know what he said and when and what I did...I would tell him all of that. Then, he is hurt and it will play in his mind over and over just like the very small things he DID ask and I answered about the OM earlier on...which he later said he did not want to know and wished he never asked. He is not like most in that he didn't NEED to know specific things in order to move on. In that After the Affair book it talks about how some need to know and some don't. I have to deal with my thoughts daily and it is sooo hard, why put my H through this???? I just don't see it as the right thing to do. Our SSm was wayyyyy before the A and this will not help. It will worsen my H's issues.
I'm not trying to hide something from him because I'm up to no good, I'm trying to keep him from getting hurt. Allen says IF he finds out.....I don't think the good outweighs the bad......I'm going to mull it over some more.....
Yup whatdidido...I said if. I am on side with not hurting your H any further.
If the OM is GONE and there is no chance your husband will find out about any of this contact then I am on side with you to hide it.
But if the OM is lingering at all and the H is going to find out, he should find out from you..it will hurt a LOT LESS if YOU tell him...if you want to spare him hurt and he might find out anyhow, you are risking him getting hurt MORE by rolling the dice here..
If he doens't find out, he will hurt less than if you tell him. If he DOES find out from OM then it will hurt him a LOT more than if you told him.
You are gambling here...that's my concern...this is the classic gamble dilemna.
The real tragic part is the OM is stalking you rather than respecting your choice...he knows you're vulnerable and the fact that you hadn't changed your phone number may have sent him a message that you want to keep lines of communication open.
If I ended an affair with a married woman and tried to call her and the number was the SAME..that would tell me she may still be interested...if it was CHANGED I would take the hint and leave her alone...
I think you should change the number unless your husband insists..I would tell him you want to protect yourself, him, and your family and changing contact info will help you feel better
