I disagree (sorry). I think the moods are perfectly understandable and explainable. The rings, however, are not a "mood" issue, or at least they shouldn't be!
They are a commitment issue, and they shouldn't be taken off and put back on lightly.
Puppy
I probably misspoke on the rings thing. W lost quite a bit of weight when she started her A. She was never heavy before, but now she's almost Twiggy like. The nurse at her office even said to her she needed to stop losing weight. So her rings are kind of loose.
Given that they're loose, she takes them off at night so they don't come off in bed. And it's also getting colder here which makes them even more loose. In fact, last Saturday night it was so chilly that she lost a gold band that she used to wear on her thumb.
But prior to this, she would always put them on in the morning. Well, last Sunday she was making something for dinner that required getting your hands in raw chicken so she took them off and left them on the kitchen counter. And she's just not put them back on since.
I don't think it's a "I'm not wearing my rings because it's a statement" kind of thing, but more of a "I forgot" thing. But that still bugs me. I see a lady that W works with who is approaching WAW status cause her H is off the deep end in a MLC and she still wears her rings.
I've mentioned it to W a couple times the last few weeks when she forgets to put them on and she always says she forgot in a fairly convincing manner, but if she knows how I feel about them and our marriage is on the mend, wouldn't you think she'd make a point of remembering?
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
Why not offer to have the rings sized for her? And then do it. Go to a jewelry store with her, have her finger measured, and leave the rings to be sized.
Sorry I think that is a lame excuse on her part. It is not like you are going to resize them all the time. I do know that I can't get my rings off in the summer (unless I want to pull the finer off right along witht he ring) as I have very small fingers. My ring finger on my right hand is a 3 3/4. If I go bigger it falls off in the winter, smaller and I will have a squeezed finger in the summer.
Just take her and if she balks, you will know something else is going on.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I was going to write a rebuttal Pup, but given our conversation last night, I don't think it's necessary.
Last night was a VERY, VERY good night, and I didn't even get ONE kiss. Warning, this is going to be long.
W and I went out to dinner. W was talking about her friend at work with the MLC crazy H. Her H (who also works at the same location as W and my W) made some comment to her about the guy at their work that is "doing" the lady in the lab and how he should be fired, it's unethical, etc. My W then told me that her friend and her H were both married when they began seeing each other, got divorced and married and now years later, he's having huge trust issues.
I asked W "does that surprise you?" She said it surprised her that they were married when they started dating, but since the lady had left her H a couple of times because he was abusive, she didn't think it was wrong the way she did it.
I told her I disagreed. I said, "If your marriage is bad, leave it. If it's not so bad you want to leave at that point, then work on fixing it, if you try and it can't be fixed, then leave and then start dating". W said "what about you? You were still married when we started dating". I replied, "yes, that's true, but my ex had moved out of our house and in with her affair partner when we began dating. Our marriage was OVER in every sense of the word. In that case, I feel it's acceptable to date". And she replied "I see what you're saying".
Well, that gave me an opening to discuss our sitch. And she was open to talking about it. I don't remember the order of the talk, but here's what we discussed.
W told me where OM lived when he was in the area. This is very big for me because every time we're out and I see her staring at apartments it makes me wonder and takes me back to some bad times. Now I know what road I need to avoid. Which is somewhat of a problem because its the road I take to get my haircut, but I'm sure I can find an alternate route.
I asked her what had changed in the last 6 months that now she wants to stay? She replied that she finally woke up and realized that with me is where she wants to be. I asked her if it was something I'd done to make her realize and she said that it just seemed like at some point, all the rationalizations she was using for the A weren't there any more. She realized she was focusing on the negatives and not all the positives. I asked her if she started focusing on those negatives when she started finding herself attracted to OM? She said yes.
I asked her if the first time she went to OM's apartment if she was planning on sleeping with him and she said no, she knew they were having fun flirting and she just wanted to have some more fun in his company and when he invited her over to his place, she went. I asked her if when she was driving there if there was anything telling her it wasn't a good idea because things could get out of hand and she said yes, but she thought she could handle it.
We then talked about how you just can't put yourself in those situations. I shared that over the course of our marriage I've had a couple of opportunities to go there if I'd wanted and she'd have never known, but I just didn't put myself in that situation. W got kind of snippy with me and said "I guess you're better than me then". I told her I didn't think I was better than her and that I was just trying to get right down to it because for me to feel safe, I need to know going forward that she "gets it" and will not put herself in that kind of situation again. I then said the best thing she could do for me was to not get angry when we're talking about this and I'm expressing my feelings. That if she does get angry it makes me feel like she's disregarding what this has done to me. She replied "I'll try my best to not get angry with you".
So I again asked, "Should I feel comfortable that you get it and how it happens and you won't let yourself go there again" and she said "I hope to god I get it".
Somewhere in there we talked about when I was seeing a coach from a different website and how much he'd helped me. That he helped me understand that this kind of thing can happen to ANYONE, and the only thing stopping it from happening is understanding just how something simple like what someone considers innocent flirting can lead to an A and you have to have boundaries in place that you just won't go there. Having friends of the opposite sex is ok, but there's a line you just can't cross or it'll be bad. I also told W that if it wouldn't have been for him, we'd not be together right now because if I didn't learn from him how it happens, I'd never have been able to wait it out.
I asked W at one point if OM was the aggressor and she said "he wasn't really aggressive, but now looking back, I can see that it wasn't the "I didn't want to fall in love with you, but I did" but a more methodical, almost plan he had to sleep with me". I asked her how she felt now that she realizes that she fell for it given that she now knows he's had 4-5 affairs on his wife and she was just another notch. She looked at me with a pretty pained look on her face and said "stupid". She then said she just thought it was innocent flirting and didn't realize that it was getting out of hand. I asked her if she just didn't realize that there are people out there that play that game to get what they want and she replied, "I do now".
I asked her did she think that OM was just using her? She said "I do now". I asked her when she figured that out? She said ironically, when I told the boys what was going on and that I was going to file for D, that when S17 (he was 16 at the time) ripped her that night he made a comment that she couldn't remember, but that later the next day she thought to herself "OMG, how can a 16 yr old see it and not me?"
She said she's known for quite a while that she wanted to stay, but just had all these conflicting things going through her head and it just took her time to work through them.
I also asked her about her rings, that I hated being a pest, but it really means a lot to me when she has them on and she said they meant a lot to her also and them being as loose as they are, she just doesn't want to lose another one like she did last Saturday night.
That's about it. I know I've left some stuff out. I told her I really appreciated her opening up to me and helping me fill in the blanks of my life. That it's helping me understand and see that she understands as well.
The rest of the night we just sat in the family room, watching the Yankees kick the Angels azz (that's for you Pup!). And the funny thing is, I could see that it was a weight lifted off her shoulders because she was even more at ease than I've seen her in a long time. And that's saying something given that she "woke up" a while ago.
Busy day today. Watching our beloved Buckeyes, going shopping for some jeans for S21 and W wants to visit her beloved Anne Taylor Loft. And Victoria's Secret is right on the way to the Loft, maybe she'll surprise me and want to go in.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
TAL, Dr, thanks. It was a conversation that I've been dying for for a long time. And strangely (maybe not so strange), I think now that we've had THE conversation, I think a huge weight has been lifted off W's shoulders.
Since Friday night, she has been so much more at ease. I can tell it was a relief for her. And now it seems like we BOTH know we can have these conversations and neither of us will be hurt or angry about them. And that leads to more intimacy.
Pup, if you're reading, yesterday I was at W's work around lunch time taking care of some of my own business so I stopped by to see if she wanted to have lunch. She did. So while we were at lunch she said to me "I was half way to work and realized I didn't have my rings on and I was pissed". Today she sends me an IM asking if I'm going to be in the area of her work around lunch. I told her I was. She said "I can't get away for lunch, but I'd love it if you have the time to stop up when you're done". So I picked up a couple subs and took them to her office and she's got her rings on today.
Things just keep getting better. I know we have a ways to go, but I think I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
and how much he'd helped me. That he helped me understand that this kind of thing can happen to ANYONE, and the only thing stopping it from happening is understanding just how something simple like what someone considers innocent flirting can lead to an A and you have to have boundaries in place that you just won't go there. Having friends of the opposite sex is ok, but there's a line you just can't cross or it'll be bad. I also told W that if it wouldn't have been for him, we'd not be together right now because if I didn't learn from him how it happens, I'd never have been able to wait it out.