With respect to my last post, I am just trying to figure out how I can give her the impression that I may date if we separate without essentially condoning what she has done in the process.
W is still cordial with me and we go out often but she still is emotionally cold and showing no real affection. This has been making me feel that she has completely checked out. However, when we were talking this morning, her eyes seemed to be searching for something in mine in an affectionate way. I almost felt like she was trying to figure something out about what is going on in my head. This is so darn confusing to me
HBH..You are a step ahead of me, but I also have a WAW in progress. She's not having an EA (to my knowledge), but she says she doesnt love me any more and needs independence, to take care of herself, etc. We are in MC, but there is no affection or closeness around the house. We are existing as friends, which I have gotten good at in recent weeks. It's not easy, but it does seem to help me to not be a moping desperate mess all the time. W seems to like the space as well...she's been asking for it for months, I guess I didn't know what she meant until now.
Two sessions into MC, but just sharing with the MC where we're at at this point...that she doesn't love me and needs to be independent, and that I love her and want to find out if we can identify the problems and repair our marriage. She says her mind is open to counseling. Time will tell. I agree....these situations are so cofusing.
W told me she is putting in an application for an apartment today. We had a long talk about things and I did a good job about not being emotional although I probably broke a lot of rules by trying to rationalize with her. She says that MC and in-house separation can’t work at this point because she needs the physical space away from me to sort things out. During our talk, I did bring up the elephant in the room (The A) and asked her if this is in any way contributing to her decision to proceed with this. She did not answer this directly and just replied that she needs space to figure out what she wants and what she needs. I told her that I am 100% sure that she has been dating and would continue dating during the S but that we should still openly agree that we will date other people during the S so that we don’t have any false expectations that will lead to future resentment. She never said she either would or would not date during S, only that she does not know what she wants to do. She at first seemed just a little shocked that I would consider dating and said that she is signing a short term lease and that if I reach a point where I don’t want her to come back I need to let her know ahead of the lease expiration so she will know. She then said what I do is my business.
She is telling me that she hopes this can lead to understanding what led to us growing apart over the last few years and that it will help her define what changes she would need to see in our relationship if we were to try to reconcile. It is hard to believe that she is sincerely hoping for reconciliation if the S is in any way motivated by OM or needing to sow some wild oats to figure herself out. She said that she doesn’t want to pressure me but that she would still want to have contact with me and go on dates in the hopes that we can reconnect if I would be open to it. She still does not believe that my changes will come or that they will stick but she said she would hope to use the time we spend together dating as a chance to see this happen. She kept emphasizing that this might be the best thing that could ever happen for our M but I still can’t see that she is sincere about this because she will clearly be with OM and that she still does not want MC.
She said that she still sees good things about me and that she was thinking this just the other day. She still emphasizes that she feels empty from years of trying and really does not expect me to be able to change. She complained that in the past, anything that gets done in our lives has to be initiated by her and gave an example of how when bomb first dropped, I had mentioned that I might move out and let her stay. She said, as usual, I didn’t do it and she had to do it herself. I told her in response that I felt strongly that she is the one that wants to separate and that she should be the one to leave and that it was up to her to figure out how to swing it financially.
One thing she did mention is that even though the lease is set for a certain number of months that it doesn’t mean that she would not come home sooner if she were able to sort things out. Maybe this is script? She still does not want to tell family about our sitch when I asked about disclosure, but said that if I felt that I need to, I could tell whoever I needed to. I don’t want to tell my family because they think the world of her and would be really upset with what is happening. I think if reconciliation were possible, my parents would always hold this over her head and I don’t want this. This really cuts my support network down to next to nothing but I don’t feel I can tell them yet (thank God for this forum!).
I am numb right now and I know this is going to get much worse for me before it gets any better. I have never lived alone in my life (always had a room mate or spouse) and I can’t imagine how awful nights are going to be in a quiet house.
I need some advice on how to handle all of this and how should I interact with her during the S. She is saying that she wants this to be a positive experience for our M and hopes that it will work out for us. I just can’t read this at all because I know that OM/OP have factored into this. I would appreciate any feedback or analysis you guys out there have. Is there any hope left for the M? I am obviously going to work hard on myself b/c I know that is the only way to save the M and ultimately myself.
I can’t believe this has happened to me but it is good to have the support of so many other people who are going through similar problems.
Oddly, she sought me out for more R discussions today and we had a pretty good talk. I can tell that she is stressed over this as she was teary and I wasn't for a change. I think she is noticing some of my changes but she still doesn't think they will stick. One thing that she really seems to be struggling with is that she is hurt that it had to come to this for me to make changes. Just trying to stay positive and accept that I have no control over what she does.
I really wished I could have talked to you one more time before she came to you with the talk before she moved out. Anyway, it happened and I don't know what all you said when you refered to breaking the rules. No use in me trying to tell you what to do or not do in that. So......how about going back to my first post I sent you and reading that again, okay?
Let me say this.....all that stuff she said to you in the talk you had was mostly "script". Now this is what she is really doing......she is wanting to keep you in the wings just in case things doesn't work out like she is hoping. She thinks she knows what she wants. She really wants to experience the single life and have OM......but she wants you to sit nicely in the wings waiting around just as an "insurance policy" for her.
Don't you find it weird how she can turn all this around and make it about your falts--when in reality she is having and A? Do you notice how she is careful to steer the topic of conversation away from her activity and keep it on your faults? She couldn't even be honest enough to give you a straight answer when you point blank asked her about OM and where he fit in this move of hers. You KNOW where he fits!
So, enough about that. You want to know how to act or what to do now that she is moving out. Let me ask you something, will you do what is advised or will you act out of your emotions? B/c you stand a very good chance of reconciling with your W if you play this cool. However, so many people ask for help but then they go do what they KNOW is the wrong thing. If I didn't care about this...I would not take the time out of my own life to try to help. I only say that to let you know this is not a "hobby" for me, okay?
First of all, you have told her numerous times how you feel...so for gosh sakes, don't go into any of that with her again. I can imagine that the "talk" was filled with plenty of that. Stay away from R talk with her. If she emails you and trys to trap you into a R talk.....(and she will).....don't cave....see it as a trap. She is trying to reassure herself that leaving you is/was the right move. If she can get you into a R talk....you'll screw it up and then she'll know you haven't changed at all.
It will appear that she is finding excuses to email you, but don't respond unless it is truly important. Keep it about business matters. If she calls....let it go to VM. If she TM....don't respond right away and then only if important. "Hope you have a good day" is not important. Remember, you are so busy with your life that you just don't get to her calls right then. You don't have time to chit-chat. You are working or GAL. If she whines about it....that's good!
Should you help her move? Well, since you've ALREADY told her you would help....do it. But, do it with good cheer! If you are going to get all emotional about it....then don't. The whole point is for this to make it appear that yhou have had a change of heart and have decidedthat a time apart would be good for BOTH of you. Don't over-kill by acting like a giddy fool on the day she moves out, but find the middle ground and just be cool with it. Do you have a buddy that could help you with this move of hers? Sometimes having a friend around helps break the tension.
She doesn't want the families to know? How realistic is that? Do either of your families live in the same state? How long does she think she can live S from you and the families not know? I find it amusing that she wants EVERYTHING on her own terms....but again, so true to form.
Okay, so when she gets her stuff out of the house.....and BTW...make sure it is done at one time and none of this dragging it out for a week or more......but as soon as she gets it out...then you turn that house into a "man's house". Take any and all of her touches out and don't leave any frilly female touches around. Decorate it to suit you as a man. Take the wedding pictures and keepsakes out of view and pack away. Take any pictures of her and put out of sight. Now, I know you are thinking, "But won't she think that I don't want to reconcile?" See, that is fear thinking and you cannot afford to do that. The girl needs shocked! If she comes back into that house (and maybe you should not wait to start making changes if she takes too long getting her things out) but when she comes back by....she needs to be shocked to see that it looks as if she has been completly wiped out of your life. No traces of her left in that house.
So.....you don't think you want to go that far? Nobody said this would be easy. If you find yourself wanting to hang on to things that bring special "memories" of her in the house.....that is normal, okay? But, you are taking a tough action plan here. These are drastic steps and nobody needs to know what you are trying to do. That includes your friends, family.....everyone. Come here to talk about it and nobody else.
You are probably asking yorself what is it you "are trying to do". This all sounds like some grand ploy to get your W back. It does appear so....but what I am hoping is for you to be able to emotionally detach enough that you can get your mind off of her and focus on your stressful job (don't need to lose that!) and to be able to have some sort of social life. The hard part of this is to act "as if" you are dropping that rope you've hung onto and move forward with your life. You need to act "as if" you will be fine whether she is ever a part of your life again...or not. You keep acting "as if" until it becomes the facts. You don't act on emotions....you act "as if". You HAVE DECIDED....okay?
I don't know how soon this moving day will come....but until then, don't show her how sad you are feeling. You've told her everything already. So keep an upbeat attitude in spite of everything. When she start deviding things....if you feel like you are going to lose it...get out of there. Find somewhere to go. Don't break down in front of her.
Until she leaves....find somewhere to be at night--as late as possible. I know, you want to spend every minute with her...but don't. (I bet she'll be out herself!) Oh...good job on the dark house the other night! Do it again if you have the opportunity.
After she's out of the house....go as dark as possible. No contact with her unless it is absolutely necessary. I don't know how she thinks she is going to keep this covered up and date at the same time. I think you should allow things to kind of fall the way they will. You know people will find out and they are going to talk. She wants to come out smelling like a rose while she is doing the A thing too. Can't happen. Don't fall into the trap of saying anything bad about her to somebody else. Don't talk about your MR with anyone ....especially a woman!
I need to go...this is long. I will check back later. Don't make any rash decisions and check in here as often as you can. I don't have all the answers or advice (for sure) but with everyone chiming in....you can get an idea of what to do.
Take care.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I wanted to add that when she's gotten her things out of the house....and she starts calling you to help her with something in the apartment.....you are not her plumber or electrician. It will come natural for her to ask you to fix something that is not working....or to screw in a lightbulb. Be prepared and have the numbers ready to give her. Tell her that you can't do it but the number to the plumber is..... or your've heard that _______ is a good repairman.
She needs to "miss" you!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks so much Sandy, I really appreciate the time you spend giving me advice. As moving day approaches, I Am sure that I will have a lot of questions about your last post. I did want to mention that W came to me this morning and said that talking has helped her out and see things more clearly. She said that she wants us to come together and have these type of talks during S. She also told me that she feels a lot more positive about us. I recognize the possibility that maybe she is just making sure the rope is tied tight to me before she leaves, but my optomistic side sees that this could also be a positive step for her.
What is your take on this? I want to do the right DB thing but I don't want to sabotage positive steps.
Or maybe she is happy and relieved to finally get what she wants which more time with OM/OP. Sometimes I think not knowing WAS's thoughts will drive me nuts. I really need to GAL!
I'm sure I already know the answer to this but would it be a bad idea to unemotionally let her know that if it comes to light that her decision to S is motivated by a desire to pursue a relationship with OM, then it will have consequences of some sort. I already know that OM is probably the driving reason based on her reply to my question yesterday and that it probably won't change her mind. I may be plan B right now but I want her to at least feel that plan B is not a certainty if she does this and it doesn't work out for her.
