T2, I can totally relate to what you are saying. I can usually (now) pull myself out of negative self-talk on my own, so I don't implode or explode very often these days.
We both know that avoiding R talks doesn't work for us. It makes me withdraw, then him withdraw, then me withdraw more--until there is a gulf between us that neither one of us can find a way to bridge.
It is still excrutiating for me to try to initiate these conversations. It is very hard for me to share my feelings with him in the first place. That has been compounded by years of being stonewalled and shut down when I would try. I have been trying to overcome my fear and hope for a different response from H. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Tal, sounds like you have a great handle on what you need to do for yourself, h, and marriage. Gosh I hate that withdrawing! My H and I both do it at times....I have been quite an expert at the silent treatment torture, not speaking for days at a time...he is great at just losing himself in the television and sports....
Anyway, it's different for me. H cannot handle R talks at all...so I have to work on positive reinforcements of things that are working for me and H and lots of positive affirmation of him and his good deeds...lol...a lot like behavior modification I studied in college....only rewarding the good, trying hard to ignore the bad....seems there is less and less bad then... Don't know if that helped or if I am just rambling on here... I guess I would just encourage you to do whatever you need to do for the R with love, patience, tolerance, and respect toward H... When I remember that my H is another fragile human being, trying the best he can to attain happiness....he doesn't look so Alien!
Hey Sage, some of the things that have worked in the past are.
First I have to summon up a lot of courage and be determined to be sweet and understanding no matter what may come up. Then I just into the deep end of the pool.
Occasionally, I will just say flat out that I am upset about something or have some questions about something and want to talk about it. That is what I have to do if the subject is so important that I don't want to risk avoidance.
Usually I will wait until I know we have some privacy and things are feeling relaxed. Sometimes I will say something like this, "Remember when you said XYZ? I have been thinking about that and I want to make sure I understand what you meant and don't jump to any assumptions. Did you mean XYZ or ZYX or something else entirely?
Usually that will get him to start talking a bit because he does WANT to be understood. All along through the conversation, I try to give a lot of affirmations and affection. I usually have to continue asking questions to keep things going, like "so how do you think we're doing lately?", "how do you feel about this or that?", "do you still think this or that?".
If I am REALLY feeling brave, I'll ask something like, "How do you imagine I must have felt when XYZ", or "If you were me, what do you think would be important?".
Once he DOES start talking, it is usually pretty one-sided, so I have to make a strong point about us switching gears to talk about MY thoughts and feelings.
When I do talk about some of the more negative emotions that still come up for me (insecurity, anger, mistrust, etc.) I let him know that I only feel that way occasionally and it get's easier all the time. I let him know that even though I feel overwhelmed when I'm in the storm of those emotions, that my goal is to heal. I tell him that I would like to let him know when I am struggling and it would really help if he would do A, B, C, or D. I give him the choice, but if he knows he has choices and can do something to help, he won't feel so powerless and frozen in guilt in the face of my pain.
I try to remember to be very gentle about the whole process and to stop while we're ahead...on a good note.
Don't know if any of this helps, but these are some of the things that have helped since bomb-droppage.
Holy cannoli Tal, Boy did you ever speak for my H & I too when you said:
Quote: We both know that avoiding R talks doesn't work for us. It makes me withdraw, then him withdraw, then me withdraw more--until there is a gulf between us that neither one of us can find a way to bridge.
It is still excrutiating for me to try to initiate these conversations. It is very hard for me to share my feelings with him in the first place. That has been compounded by years of being stonewalled and shut down when I would try.
That is EXACTLY us. Great way to express this dilemma! T2
It looks like I haven't posted here in a while?? Why does my favorites list always show me as having already LOOKED at your thread??
Sorry about that Tal
Thank you for posting on my thread It seems like many of us were struggling with that R talk need for a while there.
You are right...the similarities between many of the H's is spooky. I wonder if that is just because they are MEN or is it because we are all involved with a "TYPE" that is prone toward this type of sitch?? H and I are both on our 3rd M and I have often wondered if there was something about us in particular that makes M difficult? I would like to think not since the break ups of each of our previous M's was completely different from our own sitch. One does wonder though
I like the method you use for R talks I think that is kind of what I emplyed with H this time. Lots of I statements sprinkled with affirmations and validations Dang. I wish I had read your thread sooner
Hope all is still going well with you and yours Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Geez...you guys, I just can't keep up around here anymore!
And, would you all quit throwing the Panic Mojo around lately, because I'm catching it, LOLOL!
I have totally let everthing slide as far as bringing up any R talk time, like I said I was going to. Things have been more than a bit stressful at work lately, and I don't want to be masochistic and add anything else right now.
So....the extent of R talk in the last 3 weeks has been:
Tal: Are you happy? Wolfie: Yes. Tal: {waits silently for awhile to see if he has anything else to say, gives up and says...} That's good.
Wolfie: {makes small grumph-grr-grunt noise}
I don't let it get to my PMA though. I have noticed large amounts of affection from H, and occassionally I catch him looking at me with a very sincere smile on his face. That's enough for the time being.
This morning I had a bit of a meltdown, though. The news has been a big trigger for me the last few days. There's constant mention of Kobe B. I can't help thinking about his poor wife, looking like she was in initial shocked and numb phase of WHAT WE KNOW FEELS LIKE. And then of course the media makes mention often that his wife does not attend or stand by his side at his rape trial. Pure Hillary-C like humilation in the media, right?
Then, of course the Scott Peterson case is heating up and that is being talked about extensively the last few days. "OW (whatever-her-name is) will testify about extensive deception used by Scott Peterson--both in cheating on his wife, and by lying to her about things that now seem suspicious. The news puts up a photo of OW and Laci Peterson with Scott between them.
I thought about Laci Peterson, and how this must make her roll in her grave (figure of speech) but you know--her spirit can't very well be at rest.
And I think about the whole dynamic about her husband lying to her--and betraying her with the OW and then to get rid of Laci like that (yeah-yeah--allegedly, I know).
And then I thought of the things that will probably stick in my mind the longest: those times that I knew in my gut that Wolfie was lying to me about something, and he was lying to me with a small, cruel little smile on his face. All of the sudden it occurred to me that he didn't cheat on me...
...he cheated AT me. There was definately an element of vindictiveness about it, but I don't think he'll ever admit that even to himself.
OK, it gets worse...
I start thinking that Laci Peterson could very well have been on this bb. She could have suspected that her H was having an A. She could have known that her H was having an affair and was trying to DB because she didn't want to lose her marraige and she was pregnant. I remember wondering that very thing when I first started posting on these bb's.
Gruesome, enit? I guess I had a real Steven King moment before I even left for work, LOLOL!
I'm going to have to start leaving the room when Wolfie turns on the news!
It seems like many of us were struggling with that R talk need for a while there. 