W wants to separate

[LTD]

You can only control what you do. I agree with Coach. If you don't want to separate, why should you take the action? If she is deadset on separating, she needs to make it happen.

I understand it's easier said than done. I waffle on it in my own situation. You ask yourself, should I give her what she wants to avoid being selfish? If I appear to be giving, will she change her mind? Should I do what's easiest on the kids? If I stand up for myself, will it prove what she accused me of in the first place? Etc. I get it. I know that if I would have had a choice in the matter, I would have stayed. I would recommend that you stay. The problem is a situation caused by both of you. No matter what she thinks, getting rid of you isn't going to solve all her problems.

[notagoodlistener]

I'm hurting so bad. So today is my 5th anniversary. Tonight I followed your advice. I did buy her flowers and have them sent to her work with no card. She texted me saying the were the best flowers she's ever gotten. I didn't reply. An hour later she texted me again asking if I got her text. I didn't reply. 2 hours later she called me and asked if everything was alright. I just said yes and kept it short and that I'm glad she liked the flowers. Then, tonight she came home and gave me a hug and thanked me for the flowers and it felt so good. We were talking and playing with our daughter before putting her to bed. Then we were hanging out in the kitchen and she was making us some pasta real quick and she brought up when I was moving. I wasn't going to breach the topic tonight because I didn't want to ruin the vibe, but I said I didn't think I should move out based on the situation. I said that I disagree with it and don't want to enable the separation. She said that it just confirms me not being able to do anything she asks for etc. etc. She said she was so angry with me that she needs the separation to see if she even misses me when I'm gone because right now she doesn't. She was saying how she does everything around the house blah blah blah. I just said that I'm trying to do what I think is right and you are trying to walk all over me and I don't want to support it. Man, it was so hard. Needless to say she stormed out of the house and took off and the conversation ended right there after she said fine, I'm taking D2 and we're going and we're not paying you sh*t for the mortgage or anything. Your never here anyway and I can't believe you. Slammed the door and took off. I stupidly tried to call her a couple minutes later in the heat of the moment but she didn't answer which is probably a good thing.

Somebody talk me down. Did I do the right thing? I had written a heart felt letter that I was going to give her tonight too and everything. I'm so distraught right now. I also feel like calling her parents and explaining why I made the decision I did. They had helped us out alot and my parents have done very little because they don't have any money. I feel like they think it is rightfully hers or something. I'll find a way to pay the mortgage myself though. I can make it work if I budget wisely. Have I done the right thing? Have I now pushed her over the top? Now I fear she'll never agree to counseling or ever even want to see me again! AHHHHH!

[notagoodlistener]

Happy anniversary to me...

[LTD]

Your wife's actions remind me of things I've seen my wife do. Namely, she's cordial as long as she thinks you're doing exactly what she wants you to do. When you don't agree with with her, you get an angry reaction where you're accused of being selfish.

Now that you've made your stand, I would recommend sticking by it. Don't totally disregard everything she said though. Judging by your screen name, I'd guess she's told you repeatedly that you're not a good listener. If she says you're never there and you don't do anything around the house, try being around more and pitching in around the house, etc. Work on being a good listener.

The thing she needs to realize though, is that there is a difference between listening to her and understanding her versus doing exactly what she wants because that's what she told you she wants. It's your marriage, too. It's your house, too. Needing to see if she misses you when you're gone isn't a good reason for you to leave your family, in my opinion.

Stay strong, read other posts and other people's situations on here (if you have time, I learn things all the time), and read books about the subject.

[sandi2]

It seems that you were doing okay, but then things started getting progessivly worse. So, I don't know how to do this except to go along and point out some things to try and show you. Some members can say just a few words, but doesn't seem to work well for me.

I might do a simple flowers and cards

Remember one of the DB rules is nothing that puts pressure on her. You aren't to buy flowers. Nothing says "romance" like flowers do. The fact you bought anything for an anniversay when the woman is probably already involed in at least an EA and wants you to move out of the house so she can pursue the A.....is rather in poor taste, don't you think? But then to add flowers and a card?

I'm keeping it light and vanilla. Nothing to make her feel guilty, just appreciated.

Appreciated? Maybe it is the diffence in the way men and women think.

I'm thinking I should not push my luck in the guest room and just get on top of finding a place quickly and getting out of there

Why? Why ae you moving out? Why are you doing what she wants? I know the practical side of what you said....but why? See below for the answer:

I think if I stay too long though she'll just get annoyed that I didn't go and respect her wishes.

Well, that's it. You are an official nice guy! God forbid that you piss her off, right? ........oh, but wait, maybe you have some spunk after all, b/c look below at this quote:

W was mad I didn't call and snapped at me saying she was worried because you can usually set a watch by my actions (prob part of the issue). I didn't handle it well and said something along the lines that I thought we were separating, I didn't know I need to call you still, but apparantly I do. D was in bed at this point.

Well, so you did something that was a 180! Good for you. W was mad.....so did the world come to an end? Nope! If only you would have have said, "Okay, but I was getting the feel of being single again".....wouldn't that had been a shocker for her??? Don't operate on how she will feel about your actions. Don't react to her emotions. Let what she says run off your back.

The problem with this argument/fight was that it sounded so.....married! Try thinking like you were not M to this woman. How would you react to what she said?

I left the room got my clothes back on and as I was leaving she said she was sorry she snapped and I told her that she should be and that I don't deserve to be treated like that.

You needed to handle that with a more manly attitude. To say you didn't deserve to be treated like that, is true....you don't deserve it, but think of a way you could say that where it would be coming from a calm, collected, strong man. She needs to see strength in what you say. If you storm out like a hurt pup licking his wounds, it accomplishes nothing. Even though she apologized.....it carried no weight.

I think she is trying to be "polite" to you just to hurry you on out of her way so she can get on with her life. She is concerned if she doesn't be nice to a certain extent that you may not do everything she wants.

if nothing comes up, I'll go with them to get out of her hair.

So now you are thinking about moving in with a couple of men? You will be miserable and it is a good way to lose two friendships. You aren't in college anymore. These things don't work very well after having your own home and family. You are allowing your W to bully you.....in a polite way, of course.

She teared up, I wanted to hug her sooo bad but resisted (probably the only thing I did right).

Just about.....

I can still do nice things, but I just can't pursue like crazy I think. I need to strike a balance. Part of the reason I'm in this mess is because I'm not thoughtful and selfish. I think pulling back would only reinforce that notion...

No, you've got it all wrong, friend. You are like a lot of newcomers that first start out with DBing and they get frustrated and think it won't work b/c it doesn't make sense ....but mainly b/c they are afraid. First, you can't pursue at all, okay? None! Pursuing is pressure and she will reject you every single time! You will dig your grave a little deeper each time you pursue. Just like the flowers and card was pursuing, but you saw it doing something nice....but it was pressure to her. Maybe part of this mess "stated" way back when you were not thoughtful and were selfish, but I haven't seen that since you've been on the board. The point now is to do what you "think" feels opposite. Now you have doubts about pulling back from her. You are leaving her to move out with some buddies! She doesn't want you man. If you pursue her while she is in this stage, you will ruin any chances of reconciling. You must pull back from her. I am telling you this as am almost WAW.

I'm still sending flowers to her work. It would just be the wrong thing not too.

So that wasn't enough pressure.....you decide to send them to her work. Oh, where everyone can see and ask questions....on no....no pressures at all.

This spawned into me trying to get her to open up to me. I asked if she was ready to see a counseler and if she really thinks I should move out before we do. She retorted, "what do you think it will change my mind" and became angry.

(Sandi is just shaking her head and doesn't know what to say.)

Well, I caved in and got $100 worth of flowers sent to her work for anniversary. I purposely didn't have a card with them though. She did the polite text message, "Thank you, they are unbelievable...".

I'm actually writing a letter right now that I'm not sure I'm going to give her but it is something she would have wanted me to do for years that I never did and is something she complained about. I never really communicated how I really felt to her for some reason. I may give it to her tonight depending on what happens. We'll be under the same roof for a couple hours and I might as well soak up the time with her while I can before I move out. If I do though, I know I need to back way off after and give her alot of room.

Would you like your shovel to start digging that grave now?

[sandi2]

I just said that I'm trying to do what I think is right and you are trying to walk all over me and I don't want to support it. Man, it was so hard. Needless to say she stormed out of the house and took off and the conversation ended right there after she said fine, I'm taking D2 and we're going and we're not paying you sh*t for the mortgage or anything. Your never here anyway and I can't believe you. Slammed the door and took off. I stupidly tried to call her a couple minutes later in the heat of the moment but she didn't answer which is probably a good thing.

You did the right thing. You are the man of the house and if you left, you could be seen as deserting your family in some courts. I know you are feeling terrible right now, but it is all very typical and she will settle down. She didn't get things like she wanted so she ticked. Don't do anything to enable her move. If she wants it....let her get it. Trying to call her right after she left...yes it was a stupid move. Don't do that anymore. That is same as kissing a$$ when she gets mad. She knew when she saw your number. Remember, you have to keep cool and collected. You are the man and must use your leadship, strength, and all that other stuff God gave you......(I am so sleepy I can't think clearly. Been on this board for 7 hours straight after I got home from work. So better get to bed.) I will check back later.

Don't talk to her anymore tonight. Let it be.

[notagoodlistener]

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it and need it.

So, she ended up coming home last night just after I usually go to bed. I had cleaned the kitchen and was laying down but saw her come in. She didn't say anything but to come into the guest room I was in and take the baby monitor and bring it into her room. When I told her I had it covered she said don't worry about it, took it and left.

This morning was ice cold. She looked pretty exhausted as I was getting ready for work. D2 was being a little handful and I was playing with her a little and keeping her entertained for 20 minutes while she lay there on the couch not really saying anything. Then, I said by hugged/kissed D2 and said by to her and left. She texted me while I was driving to work, "I found an apt, D2 and I are moving out Mon". I didn't reply. Then, 10 minutes later I got another text saying "fyi, I asked you to move out bc of what would be easiest on D2, if I didn't have her I would have already been moved out."

I still haven't replied. I don't know what to say. It hurts. I really feel like I've lost her after last night, but I'll just try to hang tough. This is not the person I know. I know I'm not perfect, but I'm not that bad of a guy. I'm a little worried about her.

Should I reply to her text? What do you say to something like that? How could you even find a place that quickly. It wasn't even office hours when it happened...uggg another crappy morning filled with heartache and pain.

Another note, is that I sense my emotions shifting back in forth now between the regret and anger towards myself to anger towards her and the way she is acting. I guess that is natural. Who knows. I'm also assuming the MC is out now and probably shouldn't bring it up. Should I? Should I mention I scheduled something for myself if I do and see what she says?

[LTD]

She said she is moving out, but then attempted yet again to make you feel guilty about not doing EXACTLY what she wanted. My guess is that she's still hoping she can guilt you into moving out - and using your daughter as ammunition to help get the job done.

Don't reply to the texts, IMO she wants you to reply so she can do what I stated above. You have already stated that you aren't moving out, right? If this is what she wants, she needs to take the action. Why bail her out now only to hear "You're the one who left!" later. Don't think it won't happen.

It's hard to see this stuff when you're in the situation. A lot of it is really similar to stuff I've seen in my situation that I didn't see clearly at first - it helps to have distance from the situation. It's hard to see how you're being manipulated when you're right there in it and all of your emotions are a complete mess. Don't let her convince you that you're not doing what's best for your daughter, because what's best for her is to be raised in a stable, 2-parent home and that's what you want to give her.

[notagoodlistener]

Great. I now am told that instead of the baby sitter tomorrow night so we can both go out separately, "We wont be home". She is taking D after she gets out of work Saturday afternoon and leaving for the night. Chances are that after I transition D to her tomorrow afternoon, she'll leave and I won't see her again possibly until next weekend if I don't pursue her at all. I feel like there is so much downward momentum that it is just sucking us in. It's killing me.

Then my mom called me at work and was sort of crying because she found out from my brother. I had a falling out with my parents over my W sort of and we haven't been talking lately. She said how sorry she was and how she is here for me and always has been.

Just F-ing great. I'm at work and just not getting anything don. Can't focus. Don't know what to do. At this point, I really just feel like I have no control over the situation. I need to find a way to just let go and live but it is so hard to actually do. I know she is home with D tonight becuase she has to wake up early for work. I'm debating just forcing myself to go out after work and not coming home until later in the night just before bed time.

I did happen to look at her recent calls real quick, but only found one in the past few days that would raise a flag. Some old friend that the kids had a play date with a couple weeks ago before this mess really hit hard. I know he supposedly has a GF too, but that doesn't mean anything. All the threads on here about having an A have made me more paranoid, but I could definitely see where there could be an EA. Unfortunately, I don't have access to her phone records but know she definitely texts alot. I hate myself for even looking. Now I'm wondering if it is worth hiring a PI or something to check into it and how much that would cost me. I would have never thought that it would be a possibility, but now I'm just not so sure and don't feel like I know her that well.

[Coach]

I really just feel like I have no control over the situation.

You never did. You can only control yourself.

Don't know what to do.

Set some goals. GAL. Make yourself busy.

but know she definitely texts alot.

Check her phone.

No idle time this weekend.