Over the Shock and GALing 6

[Thinker]

You are right about the detatchment.

Before Retro I was detached and calm. Now I am fused and angry.

(and now a bit frightened about what my W is trying to make of this)

[Thinker]

Just a note:

Please realize that I vent here on this thread sometimes.

When I am angry and venting, I am seeing (and therefore describing) only the bad sides to Mrs. Thinker. At the same time (while I am angry) she is often only seeing my bad side. Since I don't see that as clearly (when angry), I don't describe it either.

Sometimes I think that leads to an unbalanced view of her here. She's not Bad, She's Just Drawn that Way.

Anyway, I think we have each done our share of hurting recently. I do feel I got the brunt of it, but...

-----

Still haven't fully analyzed the anger Sunday/Monday.

A part of it was definitely self-inflicted. Disappointment, unmet expectations, self-anger at allowing my emotions to hijack me at several points over the weekend, misdirected shame at having been caught as the kettle calling the pot black a few times.

I think a huge chunk of it was anger and pain from having repeatedly opened myself up emotionally over the weekend, only to get wounded. Having opened up about some rather deep seated personal feelings, only to have them snidely shoved in my face by a person who hadn't opened up about a thing and who was (therefore) completely detached and unemotional. Especially when those underlying deep seated emotions are tied to ones childhood - brings out all sorts of old pain.

And I think a huge part was a release of 11 months of pent up stress. As a person who's main FOO issue is a childhood based fear of abandonment, living through 11 months of EA's and "I don't love you and may leave at any time" is real torture. The weekend was one more huge dose of that.

And the anger would come out of no-where - appearing in the middle of the night or upon waking up, so Mrs. Thinker's experience of it was me being silent and brusque, and on a minor provocation seeing me suddenly reach critical mass and go "Fast Neutron Supercritical"


I'm mostly back under control now

-----

One definite change over the past few days...

I noticed myself avoiding her over the past few days - just don't want to be around her. When she is getting ready to leave the house, I find myself trying to be busy and not between her and the door so there is no chance of a goodbye kiss. When she calls, I don't want to return it. I've gone to bed early hoping to fall asleep before she comes upstairs. I just found myself lying on the floor and thinking of a future with her - "I see nothing but pain. She's not capable of doing the work to change. It'll always be bad. I'm done. I should leave now"

...so who's the WAS?

[Dia]

Ugh. Rough times. Where you're at is completely understandable.

We all vent here - that's part of what the place is for.

Hang in there.

[tryingtilDorR]

"I see nothing but pain. She's not capable of doing the work to change. It'll always be bad. I'm done. I should leave now"

I have had similar thoughts, but am steadfast in my requirement that SHE leave and not me. She seems to agree that it should be her that moves out, but she is cake-eating and doesn't want to go. I suspect your W is doing the same - doesn't want to go, but otherwise hangs around in limbo.

However, like you, I am also at a point where I just can't imagine her doing the work to change. She is too convinced, and too stubborn to un-convince herself. I suspect you are in a similar bind. It doesn't leave much room for hope.

At this point I am going to let my new level of detatchment go forward and try to exist with her a little longer. I am finding that life is better now because I am not emotionally tangled up with her, so it feels like a big burden has lifted and life seems easier now.

You seem to be in a similar state right now as far as detatching (wanting to avoid her, etc). Is this a new level of detatchment for you, or were you already there previously? If it is new, give it time and try to let the situation settle down a bit. The complication is that you have Retrouvaille post-sessions over the next couple of months, making it hard to be detached. See how things go this weekend when you attend the first post and then reassess possibly.

[orangedog]

Don't worry about the vent Thinker. That's what this place is for. Sometimes I've said some rotten things about the She here. It's just venting and transitive feelings trying to get out. What really counts are my consistent actions on the outside.

[MrBond]

"My issue is that the script hasn't changed AT ALL in 11 months."

Okay, I'm beginning to see a trend here. Alot of this is still based off of you reacting to her. Detach now and stop engaging her. When she talks to you, keep the answers to one word answers that are in agreement to her whether you believe it or not. Let's face it, the longer you talk to her, the angrier you get. Skew the answers to what she says, but in a way that benefits you rather than her.

For example.
W: I think we should go to counseling for your anger issues."
T: You're right, I think counseling would be good for us (you're not addressing the "anger" issue).
W: I'm afraid to be with you.
T: It is a good idea to work out any problems that have come up in our marriage.
W: I never wanted to be married to you.
T: Hmmm, oh well, look are you done, I've got stuff to take care of. I'll arrange the appointment to see what works best. (Here you are not specifying her or you. but you are taking charge and controlling the sitch)

Just a thought.

Be PROactive and not REactive.

She's going to push you buttons. Well let her push. You don't have to be hanging around when she does. As hard as it is, don't show her your angry side. Step back as if you were watching this in a dream. Imagine your W as the spoiled bully in the playground. She prods you and prods you, but you stand up to her. She demands your lunch money, just shrug and be like, I'm a little short today, excuse me I gotta go to class.

[Thinker]

I have an appointment with my C today. My w wants to come with me to "discuss what is going on". She's arranged a babysitter, etc.

I'm not sure I want her to come. On one hand, it is a good opportunity to talk about things, and I am glad she wants to talk, but A) I am still thinking through things and B) I am afraid that it will either become a session where she complains about what I am doing wrong (if I stay silent and just listen) or will become an angry finger pointing session if I start to talk about what I am angry about. Especially while I am still Angry.

What I am angry about:
- I am angry that she uses me as a scapegoat for her unhappiness
- I am angry that she refuses to take responsibility for or even to think about her own issues and her own role in the R.
- I am angry that she dismisses my feelings, etc.
- I am angry that when I focus on myself and make improvements, she uses these merely as proof that things were wrong and that it was my fault.
- I am angry that she refuses to do any work on the M, sabotaging any effort (as she did at Retro, etc)
- I am angry that she doesn't fight fair
- I am angry that she uses a circular argument to justify her position: I don't have feelings for you, therefore I don't want to have feelings for you, therefore I don't let myself have fun when I am with you and refuse to establish any sort of connection, therefore we never have fun and have no sort of connection, therefore I have no feelings for you.
- I am angry that she refuses to let go of the distant past - continuously going back to the way things were in the first years of our M.
- I am angry that she keeps score, recording debits in the negative column while noting ANYTHING positive about me or the R.
- I am angry that she refuses to acknowledge that I help her or support her in any way.

I know that all of this is pointing the finger at her, and I know I still have work to do on my own and I should be focused on me, but...

I don't want to live with this any more.

As discussed yesterday, I want a cooling off period to think about things.

On the other hand, it might be good to finally have a C session where we actually discuss HER issues rather than mine. I'm not sure, however, that she is capable of doing that.

[Coach]

What I am angry about:
- I am angry that she uses me as a scapegoat for her unhappiness
- I am angry that she refuses to take responsibility for or even to think about her own issues and her own role in the R.
- I am angry that she dismisses my feelings, etc.
- I am angry that when I focus on myself and make improvements, she uses these merely as proof that things were wrong and that it was my fault.
- I am angry that she refuses to do any work on the M, sabotaging any effort (as she did at Retro, etc)
- I am angry that she doesn't fight fair
- I am angry that she uses a circular argument to justify her position: I don't have feelings for you, therefore I don't want to have feelings for you, therefore I don't let myself have fun when I am with you and refuse to establish any sort of connection, therefore we never have fun and have no sort of connection, therefore I have no feelings for you.
- I am angry that she refuses to let go of the distant past - continuously going back to the way things were in the first years of our M.
- I am angry that she keeps score, recording debits in the negative column while noting ANYTHING positive about me or the R.
- I am angry that she refuses to acknowledge that I help her or support her in any way.

Tweak it:

I feel angry when you _______________. Anger is a feeling not a character trait or desription of who you are. Feelings are not permanent. There are certain behaviors your wife does that anger you. It is worth bringing up. You can handle it.

[givingitmyall]

Sounds like, with Coach's suggested revision, you've written the script for your C session.

[Thinker]

Frankly, I don't want to talk about my feelings right now.

I've talked about them again and again, and each time I get trod on, dismissed and unvalidated. It get's nowhere. It's a cheeseless tunnel.

My feelings seem to have NO impact on her. If I tear myself open and lay myself bare, she looks on dispassionately as I dash myself against the wall she has built.

I want to talk about her feelings, but not the type of talk we always have. I don't want a repeat of the endless discussions where she says "I have no feelings. I feel dead. I feel nothing. I only feel sad that I have no feelings."

I want to talk about her actions.

I don't want the focus to be on me. I want it to be on her.