Hi future. Thats one place where I never had a very clear understanding. If you do reach back out to her, how does she react? If you do and she pulls back then I suppose that we will know that it was a bad idea!
I suppose that when you are in a place where its appropriate for you to be on that level, I think that its important to not just let things pick up where they left off. But to keep rebuilding and repairing, always being mindful that you are still working.
Have you thought about asking puppy to come look at your thread? I still think that now would be a good time for a coach.
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
When I reach back to her, sometimes I get strong connection back, sometimes a more ambivalent feeling. I have to admit though, as the months have gone by, the ambivalence seems less and less, and the connection seems more and more.
Just tonight I sent her an e-mail about my birthday, which is coming up soon. Before our separation, obviously the one of us who's birthday it isn't would take the kids out and help them buy gifts. Since we're no longer together, that's not so obvious any more. In my e-mail I asked her if she wanted to take the kids out to get me gifts. I said if she didn't want to that was fine, I'd make other arrangements, but if she did, I gave her some ideas. I said I'd reimburse her for the cost in my next child support payment to her.
She e-mailed me back tonight and said she would so not let me reimburse her, that she would take the kids out tomorrow to look for my gifts, then put in a smiley face.
My W did indeed help the kids get and wrap b-day presents for me, which was very nice, including framing a little poem my daughter wrote for me. She was quite distant herself though. She gave me an awkward hug and happy b-day.
She does seem to want to test the waters with us though. We had a meeting at my son's school, but it ended early and we both had a little time before we had to be anywhere. I asked her if she wanted to get a drink, and she said sure. We had a nice time talking and catching up. Afterwards, on the walk out to our cars she asked me if I wanted to go to brunch Sunday with her and the kids to celebrate her mom's b-day. I said yes. The next day she had the kids call and ask if I wanted to go pumkin picking with them after brunch. Again I said sure. I probably should have played a little harder to get, but it felt right to just say yes.
Brunch went well, but the pumpin picking had to be cancelled because it was raining. She left our son with me so we could watch football together and she took our daughters home with her. Then she started texting me about the football games, which led to some playful texting back and forth. The late game she wanted to watch wasn't televised locally, so I took a chance and asked if she wanted to go grab a couple beers and watch the game at a local sports bar. I arranged for her mom to watch the kids. She said she was in her PJs in bed with the girls, but ok, she'll go. She got them all dressed and brought the girls to her mom's then we met at the bar. When we got there she said she had a headache. After just a little while she said her headache was gone and we were having fun. Hardly watched any football, we again just had a great time talking and joking. Neither of us initiated even the slightest physical contact, although we sat a mere two feet right in front of each other the whole time.
So I have to ask myself, why would she go out with me to the sports bar? She was home in her PJs, warm in her bed, and she had a headache. She had to get herself and the girls dressed, go back out into the rain, and drop the girls off at her mom's. She wasn't just using the opportunity to see the game, since we hardly watched it. We talked the entire time, barely took our eyes off each other. She just seems so hungry to spend time with me, but she is so tentative about it. She is still so closed to me though. I don't know how much OM is still influencing this situation. She is acting very different than how she did when she and OM were going strong. She had walls up everywhere then and acted very aloof and distant, ignoring me most of the time. She's not distant now, and many walls are down, but she's still closed off. I hate to admit, she's probably closed because she knows her feelings for OM are inside there, and she knows I don't want to see them.
Wow, we finally had the conversation that's been building for months. Impossible to fully relay everything here, I'll try to condense to the most meaningful stuff.
My W wanted to meet to talk with me about our youngest daughter, who's having some trouble in pre-school. We met at a local bar to talk. She told me about our daughter, and it was pretty clearly having to do with the emotional distress over our separation and everything around it. We both were pretty upset about it, but I got silent and just stared into the distance for quite a while. Finally, my W said, "Is that all for tonight?" I said "What do you mean?" She said "You're obviously dealing with some anger over this, so we don't have to talk any more." I said "Do you have anything else to say?" She said "I'm sad and angry about this too, but at least you can say you weren't the one who ended our M and caused this. I know I'm the one who did this."
That kicked off a very intense conversation. She said it all became clear to her this morning. She was describing how her childhood was abusive, how she always felt small as a child, and how her seeing my anger in our M just caused her to collapse into herself, and be gone. She had to leave or she felt like she would die. And she was gone, for years during our M. Now that we're separated, she has found herself, and come back to the living. It is so awesome to see her, really see her. I told her I can see her now, she's an awesome person, she's stunningly gorgeous such that it's hard for me to be around her sometimes. She blushed and awkwardly accepted my compliment. I said I don't ever want her to lose herself again, and I don't want us to be together if it would cause her to go back to the way she was. She said she hates how sad I was in our M and she wants me to find someone who will really love me, because I'm such a great man, and, to my surprise, she said I'm HOT. Cool! This is from a woman who said she had no attraction whatsoever for me less than one year ago. DBing does work, no doubt about that!
We were holding hands the whole time and hugging quite a bit. She started saying how sad she's been all summer, and how she had had thoughts of reconciliation. But she also said she can't regret her R with OM, because it is so intertwined with her finding herself again, and because of that we can never be together again. That hit me prety hard, but I didn't show it. Her comment did have quite a bit finality about it, as though her R with OM is over now. I didn't ask or push it right now.
I asked if we could go back to her house, since I said I wanted to do something. She looked suspicious, and she said sure, but "no touching". I was surprised she was so clear and abrupt about that, but I just made a joke about it and said "of course not!" I actually wanted to play a song on guitar with her that we talked about a couple months ago. She was touched and we had a nice time playing and singing.
She talked some more about how although we can't get back together just for the kids, they are important to us, so they can't be irrelevant to the topic either. I sort of agreed, but said clearly that we can't get back together for the kids, or for financial reasons, and I said I won't ever be in another R where my needs are not being met, and I won't ever allow myself to let my partner's need go unmet. She nodded and said "Good."
Then I did something I'm not sure I should have done. I said "I'm not sure I should say this, but things are complicated. My friends are parents think things are simple, but they're not, they're complicated. I know I had a role in all this, so I want you to know I don't consider anything that's happened this year to be unforgivable. I say that because I know I broke your heart a hundred times over the years." She was surprised by that, then replied "You can't really say you'll forgive when you don't know everything." That hurt too, as I actually know more than she thinks I do, due to some intel I got last spring, and it is brutal. She professed her love to OM, and offered herself to him in ways she never did to me. Very, very hard stuff to know about your W, and she's right, I'm not sure I can ever really let that go, especially if she never expresses remorse or regret.
Our conversation soon ran out of gas after that and we called it a night. I needed to journal all that, but now I have to get some sleep...
Hi Future, I lost your thread for a while! It sounds like a bittersweet convo. But hopefully you got to air a lot of things that you wouldnt have been able to otherwise. Even if you dont end up reconciling, it seems like you are on a road to at least healing some part of your relationship, which I think is important because of the kids. And who knows, given enough time...
Maybe her agreeing that the kids are important in this equation is good. I hope that it means that she wont rush into anything.
I think that anything is forgivable, and you didnt say that you DID forgive her, you said you COULD. Big difference! And if you did chose to forgive her, it would take some doing on her part, like you said, remorse and regret. But still, all you can do is worry about you and your actions. That includes not worrying about her and the OM- even though honestly, we all do a little dance when their A's fail!
Take care future!
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
