W wants to separate

[notagoodlistener]

Hi all,
I'm new. I've read through a bunch of the threads over the past week or so and figured I would register. I also bought the Divorce Remedy and am about half way through and will probably finish it up tonight.

Background: In a nutshell, I feel so angry at myself for not seeing the severity of the situation and how things have unfolded to where we are now.

Me - 30
W - 29
D - almost 2
M - 5 yrs
Bomb - 10/5

Last week was easily the most painful week of my life. I'm generally a detached guy which is part of the issue, but my wife said that she can't take it anymore. There is no more connection. She has tried to talk to me multiple times and even though I say I'll change that I don't. No she "loves me, but is not in love with me anymore. Not sure she can ever love me again". Standard around here. Essentially, my main faults are that I do not listen to her, I'm selfish both in bed and pretty much just in general. I'm never nasty to her or anything. She actually said that she doesn't have much to say that is bad about me if she were to talk to people, but when I was resolved to get her to open up to me the day after the bomb dropped, I highlighted the 3 root causes.

So, I've slept in the guestroom the past week and have been looking for a place. For the first couple of days I did everything the book and the website tell you not to do. I cried like a little schoolgirl in front of her multiple times. My normal self would punch my last week self in the face. I pleaded and pursued. And, everyday, I seem to screw up at some point. So much pain and self blame though.

After the disaster during the week, I dragged myself out Thursday night and Friday night with some old friends to GAL a little bit. I didn't say where I was going until she asked me yesterday actually. We spent a little time together this weekend. Went for a hike with the dog and daughter one day, took daughter to park. Sort of met eachother at the gym and went to a Bday party for our friends 1yr old (that was hard). Seeing all of the seemingly happy couples and kids running around....

I'm in this difficult spot now where I understand what the book and forums are telling me to do, but it is hard. I told my wife that I'm sorry that it took me until now to understand how severe things were. Her pain has now morphed into anger and detachment like my old wife has gone and left the building. She also noticeably seems to interpret everything I say to her as critical and negative which is not my intention so I'm working on that. I don't know if it is more her trying to find ways to not like me to push me away.

I want to show I care, that I want to change and will do it for real this time. I had the same reaction that others do when they separate. I don't want to completely detach and GAL and then never see her. I already work a ton. I leave early mostly before she's even awake and I get back after 8 most nights. I blame my job a little bit for me not making changes and making things work, but that is just an excuse and obviously not an acceptable one.

I'm dying over here. You guys all seem pretty tough from your stories, but I can't even think straight at work anymore. I work out alot as it is, so I try to vent that way..ran 8 miles before work this morning as hard as I could just to try and move the pain from my heart to the rest of my body.

I just thought I'd introduce myself. I don't even know what to ask at this point. I love my wife so much. She is a smart, beautiful and caring person who I just totally let slip away. Now I don't know what to do. I want to just make her dinner, write her letters, talk about her day and all the things I should have been doing but now I feel like it is too late.

Thanks for "listening" since I'm horrible at it.

[undrdg]

hey man sorry you are hear but you are doing what you can with what has been given to you.

Do what works and disregard the rest. Get your confidence back. YOu will backslide.

mainly you have to change your behavior slightly. Not all the way to the other side, but enough that she knows you just woke up from a fog.

Keep doing what you are doing. You are early in the stage.

Stop pursuing.
stop the R talks...hard i know..i do them all the time.
stop moping and get positive.

and most of all keep your chin up.

[Frosty Michael]

Sorry about your sitch. I agree with undrdg, it actually sounds like you're pretty tough yourself and you're already developing a good attitude about what you can do to start fixing things. It took me MONTHS to get to this website and these principals so pat yourself on the back for the head start.

Just get ready for this to take a lot of time. Your W seems like a stranger now but gradually her real personality will come back if you stop begging and pleading.

Hate to jump to conclusions, but I'm turning into a bit of an enlightened pessimist about these things. Do you think there may be another man? I don't want to make you paranoid, and hopefully that's not the case, but just confirming yes or no could be a useful piece of info about how to proceed with her.

[LoveHerSoMuch]

Wow, your story sounds exactly like mine. I just posted my story in another thread in newcomers. I would love to hear how things go for you. I just moved into the guest bedroom today. My wife has almost the exact complaints that your wife does. I did all the wrong things do. I have cried, begged and promised but she says it is too little too late. She says she is not in love with me anymore and needs to to herself to figure out if she missed me and wants me back. Right now she says she is numb and has no feelings for me.

I hope you and will both have a happy ending when this is all done. I do NOT want a divorce. I love my wife with all my heart and soul.

[12bar]

Hi NAGL

I am sorry that you find yourself here but all of the advice you will get here will help you keep your sanity and do the good work that is needed to get you and hopefully your M back on track. I am a newbie here so don't have much in the way of advice right now except to say focus on making YOU more attractive and practicing loving detachment. DBing is hard work and it will be a rollercoaster ride so don't let that discourage you.

HBH

[ClingingToHope]

It sounds like you have a lot to start learning. "His needs, her needs" is a good place to start. I was in your situation several months ago, moved out and now seem to be headed toward a D -- despite the fact that I've learned a lot about the things I was doing wrong.

[notagoodlistener]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I hope everything works out for all of you. I've read through alot of your posts quickly, but I'm at work so it's hard to get too in depth.

To answer one question, I don't think there is an affair going on. I actually asked her point blank in one of my breakdowns unfortunately and she is the type of person that would tell me (at least I'm confident she would). She is pretty much a 9 out of 10 though and gets hit on by alot of people...which I used to take as a compliment but now it is actually worrying me.

She called me this morning on my way to work and just talked about our daughter but it was nothing that required her to call. I lingered on the phone while driving too long and probably should have cut is off, but she ended the conversation.

I texted her once today and she replied and then got me on IM while I was working and chatted some more about how they went to get pumpkins, but I shut it down after a bit and said I had to go to a meeting so I could end the convo first.

Now, I'm almost going to get on a train home and I alway call on my way and ask if she wants me to pick up anything for dinner. I'm thinking I don't do that now...which just seems wrong to me, but I guess that's the plan.

I also got really into triathlons this year and lost close to 40lbs. But now, I'm not sure if I just continue down that path, or if she resents it and would rather I'm a regular out of shape guy? But I thought that was part of my GAL thing... She is in really good shape too and we just ran a half marathon together a couple weeks ago (and I thought we were fine!). This S*CKS! Alright, sorry for the vent...Just have to get ready for game face later when I get home later tonight.

I'm thinking if I just go in the other room unprompted after putting daughter to bed or if I hang out and watch TV. She won't TELL me to leave the room or anything, but I just don't even know what would be better at this point.

[TooLateForMe]

Here's something. Listen to your W. It won't "fix" anything but if that's a big problem in your M and something she wants from you, how hard is it to do?

Don't prompt R talks, but she's probably giving off lots of signals about what she wants you to do. I've been told multiple times that my wife wants to feel I think she's attractive. She's given me examples of what would have made her feel that way. Women tend to be pretty smart about what they want and if you're not listening, then that's your fault. It certainly was mine. You can't go back in time but you can listen to her from now on.

You're in a good spot, having found the book before you're out on your ear. Don't panic and don't waste your time worrying about "what if." Check out a book called "Light Her Fire." Don't overdo the romantic stuff, but the book will give you an insight into being a bit less selfish.

And, ultimately in terms of being selfish, your w's happiness should be important enough that making her happy is a selfish act. That's a hard lesson to learn, trust me, and the sooner you do the better you will be.

[sandi2]

Hi NAGL, welcome to our community. I was almost a WAW, so I can identify with a lot of what your W may be going through. Michele has an article here on the board's home page about the symptoms of a WAW. I think if you read that, it would help you understand your W's feelings.

Were you the one that decided to sleep in the guest bedroom or did your W ask you to leave your bedroom?

You are in a tough spot since you have so little time at home. I think that probably was the beginning of some of her problems. I can't imagine how hard it would be on a young W and mother to not see her H until after 8:00 at night. Anyway, you are where you are, and this is the place you have to start working. What seems to be the opposite thing to do--is what you really need to do now....b/c her feelings about you have changed. The things you should have been doing....seems too late now...in her mind.

I think the first thing you need to work on is to show a very upbeat mood when you are around her. Nobody wants to be around a moody, sad, depressed person. Everyone enjoys being around a person who loves life and is fun to be around. So, try to do things that are "fun". Every woman loves to see a man play with her child and make her child laugh. So, need I say anymore about that?

Since the two of you have had such little time at the end of the day.....I would caution you about not sounding cold or too curt when you speak to her. I don't think it hurts to show that you are interested in what she has to say.....in fact, I think that is very important. When she talks to you, look straight into her eyes. Stop what you are doing....and look directly into her eyes. That tells her that you truly care about what she is saying.

Valadite her when she talks. And if you aren't sure what to say when she's talking, ask her how that made her feel.....or just say "that must have made you feel________". Then she knows you are showing compassion and understanding her. Always be on her "side". Never critisize her. Again...valadate her every chance you get when she is talking. Completementing her is good, but you have to be rather clever about it. In other words, instead of completmenting her about her looks.....when she is talking about something...find something in that conversation that you could tell her that she was good at doing. Know what I am trying to say? She is used to being complemented on how she looks. She wants you to notice things she does in other situations. Some men just don't know how to give a good complement and it almost turns a woman off! So, if you are one of those men....let me know and maybe I can offer some suggestions (lol).

In trying to keep things upbeat and fun, I would stay away from serious movies. Watch funny things on TV & movies. Be with other couples/families who are good to be around and doesn't pull the two of you down. She sure doesn't need to be around another couple who are having M problems.

Don't fall into the trap (and it is a trap) of a R talk. You will want to.....and she'll set a trap for you....but do not talk about the M. It will serve you no good and will add more damage each time. Talk will hurt....actions will prove...and time will heal.

Even though the DR book makes suggestions and we make suggestions, do whatever works. In other words, if you have always gone out with buddies, and that is a sore spot for her.....you may want to rethink that. You don't want to do something that is going to make matters worse. But that is just an example I gave. The book talks about cheeseless tunnels...and you don't want to be like a mouse going down some tunnel that doesn't have any cheese, right?

I have a list I want to share with you and hope it will help. If you don't understand any of it, let me know.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing" and then smile. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’t act like you are pouting. Don't be rude or act cold!!
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look at her/him in the eyes when he/she are talking to you.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

[Kemper]

NAGL,

I have read the list above that sandi2 has provided at least 100 times. You will backslide and you will regret it. #33 in the list is the hardest for me based on the last post in my thread. However, in reading over the list again tonight I know where I continue to have work to do.

When in doubt come back and read the list again. It is very informative and helps in not only calming you down but also it makes you look at the situation a little differently.

Alot of us here are in the same place you are. I will tell you that each day is a new day and not to beat yourself up for backsliding the previous day. What is in the past cannot be changed just focus on today and make it the best it can be.

Be the person your W wouldn't want to leave but I would also say to make sure that you are being true to yourself. Changing for someone else only lasts so long. You need to make changes for yourself no matter what happens with your M so that YOU can be a better person in the end.

I will tell you that this is not an easy process and you probably already know. However, keep you head up high and focus on yourself without being cold to your W.