New emotion for me about my sitch this AM - Intense Anger!
This felt strange to me b/c I am not an angry person in general. I was thinking about M vows this morning and the whole in sickness and in health thing. In all of our years of M, I have never placed any kind of significant burden on her that required her to invest a lot of emotional effort to "support" me. For the duration of our M, I have been unwaivering in my love, commitment and support for my W (of course I now understand that we had different LL and she probably did not realize how I was expressing my love). My recent depression is the first time that I can know for sure that I presented her with a significant relationship problem that had to be dealt with.
In her career, my W is the type of person who, when faced with a problem, gathers all the information she can about the problem and then puts serious thought into ways to solve the problem. She is a very strong problem solver because of this approach. Why could she not do this for her R problem? She let this build and build without really having a significant discussion about it. There is so much information out there on dealing with relationship problems and depressed spouses but to my knowledge, she never tapped into these resources to better understand the problem and to help determine possible solutions. She essentially had two options in front of her:
1. Really try to solve the problem and come to me and say "H, I really love you and value our M and all of the years that we have spent together. Over the past couple of years, your depression has been increasingly putting a strain on the R and that is why I think you should get help and perhaps we could also benefit from MC. I will fully support you if you are willing to work on this. If you are not willing to work on this, I don't know if I will be able to continue in the R as is. (This would have shaken me out of my funk in 2 seconds!)
2. Begin an affair and throw our marriage under the bus
Of course, W chose the easy and selfish approach. I know that I have not been a perfect husband but I have always been there for her through thick and thin. I would have never gone down the option 2 path if the shoe were on the other foot and just can't believe that she did and most likely continues to do so knowing how badly this is affecting my life and our M.
This is having such an impact on me emotionally and is also affecting my sleep, health etc. It is affecting my ability to focus on my very stressful job. If she moves out, it will completely push us to the brink financially and strip away what little cushion that we have.
I know that WAS involved in an A are operating based on brain chemicals and not logic. It is so hard that I can get through to her with reason by showing her how much damage is being done.
Sorry for the ranting but just had to get that out!
Been a bad morning for me so it is good to hear something positive! You are right, I am a lot better off than a lot of people on these boards. I really do have to try to keep that in perspective. At least me and W are still cordial to each other which says something I guess. The thing I have been most thankful of when reading other people's sitches is that at least we don't have any kids wrapped up in this mess.
I had been doing well with the detaching over the past few weeks and my attitude had become more positive. I tried my best to prepare for the apartment discussion coming back up and at least I handled it well when talking to her. I have just been hurt, angry and numb since the discussion (I thought rollercoasters were supposed to be fun!!)
Sorry you are here but it has definitely been helpful for me to get support from people in similar sitches. I think this forum and the books recommended in people's posts have been the only thing keeping me sane!
I am definitely pulling for you and every other person on this forum - take care - HBH
HBH. Do you have an IC. Mine helped me a lot with the emotions. I always felt better after seeing him. He will give you that 3rd party detached perspective (neither pollyannish or pessimistic); and help you plan a path forward. Plus, he became the friend I needed when I really didn't want to open up to others.
I do have an IC and thank God I have an appt. this afternoon! I have not gotten much out of it so far but I think it is my fault for my inability to focus on the real problems right now. I go to them to try to get help for the anxiety and depression that drove my W away but the emotions due to the R problems are so white hot right now, I think I spend too much time talking to the IC about that.
I feel that if we S, it should be structured with expectations discussed and agreed upon. Is it a good move to press her for a structured S if she does proceed? Does it even matter if she has OM and is not being transparent about her motive for S? I know that there is nothing that I can do to stop S but I am so confused as to how to handle this from a DB point of view.
Okay, first of all forget any kind of "structured S" b/c she is leaving you so she can have a private place to skr@w around and/or party all she wants and not have to give accountabilty. Now that I have probably shocked you, I'll tell you that you might as well forget any other plans or thoughts you've had b/c I personally think you are going down the wrong path. I don't think you can show "support" to your W......not the way you are thinking of being supportive. Let's get real, real plain here. She is having an A with OM......so are you going to stand on the side and support this? Are you going to tell her that you want to be her "friend" while she is committing adultry? (BTW, how can a person admit infildelity and deny an A?)
Do you know what would have stopped me on a dime and made me turn away from my OM and start pursuing my H at the time I was almost a WAW? If my H would have been looking at some other woman to date. If I thought some other woman was chasing him, I would not have been so sure about leaving. Or, if he just wanted to be free of me....that would have changed my feelings. But as long as he acted like a poor little kitten hanging around waiting to see if I was going to pet him......I had no interest what-so-ever in him.
When a W has gotten to the place your W is in.....I think you need to apply tough love. Tell her that you've done some re-thinking about this S, and you believe she has the right idea. The more you think about how it would be to be single again....the more you like it. If she starts asking any questions about you wanting to date any particular person, don't answer her. You have to be cool about this.
That is my opinion and I used to would not have told this, (even though I knew it would work), but after seeing what happen in PDT's stitch, then I don't hold back like I use to. His WAW went back home to him, but there was no attraction as far as she was concerned. So, they S and as soon as she heard he had went on a date, she was crying and wanting him to stop seeing others. Suddenly, her tune changed and she was very attracted to him.
So, you do what you feel comfortable with, but if your W has any feelings for you at all, then she will not want you to be seeing other women.
Even if you don't want to date....you could tell her that you would enjoy being "single" for a change. You don't have to explain anything about "dating". You see, she will S from you...regardless of any discussion. Having a "discussion" is a joke b/c she has already made up her mind. She is simply preparing you for what she is going to do! What she doesn't expect, is for you to "want" a S. So, why not do a 180 and beat her to the punch? Then see how she feels about it. At this particular time, you can't afford to really bare you soul to her.....as much as you would like to. The name of the game, for now, is playing it cool.
I don't want to talk you into anything that goes against your belief system. I am simply telling you what I think will work the best. But if you decide you don't want to do what I suggest, at least don't agree with all that stuff she says about the "reason" she is leaving you. That is a farce. She is not leaving you based upon the fact you have so many things wrong with you. She is leaving b/c she wants to be free to be involed with other men. If this man doesn't work out, she wants to be able to party around and see others. That is laying it on the line, but that is the way it truly is and she is just playing you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Okay, first of all forget any kind of "structured S" b/c she is leaving you so she can have a private place to skr@w around and/or party all she wants and not have to give accountabilty. Now that I have probably shocked you, I'll tell you that you might as well forget any other plans or thoughts you've had b/c I personally think you are going down the wrong path. I don't think you can show "support" to your W......not the way you are thinking of being supportive. Let's get real, real plain here. She is having an A with OM......so are you going to stand on the side and support this? Are you going to tell her that you want to be her "friend" while she is committing adultry? (BTW, how can a person admit infildelity and deny an A?)
Ouch!! Was that a 2 x 4 or a railroad tie? Seriously though, I need to hear the tough love advice b/c this is so confusing and I tend to be a "nice guy" although I am starting to become wary of being a doormat. I absolutely will not sit idly by any longer while she commits adultery, I just want to make sure I make a stand at the right time and in the right way. She says it is not an affair because it was a once or twice thing, a fling I guess. I don't believe this for one minute though, there are still too many red flags flying around here.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Do you know what would have stopped me on a dime and made me turn away from my OM and start pursuing my H at the time I was almost a WAW? If my H would have been looking at some other woman to date.
I was actually hoping that I could press the dating issue during any discussion of structured S because I was thinking her reaction to the dating question would tell me a lot and may make her think twice (I didn't miss that part of PDT's sitch either!)
Originally Posted By: sandi2
When a W has gotten to the place your W is in.....I think you need to apply tough love. Tell her that you've done some re-thinking about this S, and you believe she has the right idea. The more you think about how it would be to be single again....the more you like it. If she starts asking any questions about you wanting to date any particular person, don't answer her. You have to be cool about this.
Sounds like a character-building 180 to me, I like it! While I don't think I would start up anything serious during a S, I certainly would not hesitate to go on the occasional date in the spirit of GAL. Actually, she is out tonight and I am planning on going to the local bar to watch a game as soon as I finish this post and maybe she will beat me home tonight!
Thanks for taking the time to give me some advice, even if it smarts a bit. I, like most LBHs on the forum really value your opinions. I am finding that it is too easy to fall in the trap of getting hopeful any time there is a positive sign and I definitely Do Not want to become a doormat.
I have to keep reminding myself to work on me and have no expectations of the R right now.
Just got back from bar, Phillies won which was awesome! Oddly enough, I actually got hit on tonight! It feels good to know that someone out there sees something in me even though my wife doesn't. She is still out after work w/ no phone call. Really getting sick of being treated like s%^*. I am better than that!
I'm glad you were able to take what I said....b/c I know it isn't easy to hear it. I use to take a long time introducing myself and kind of easing into what I had to say....but heck, I just might as well lay it on the line and tell it as I see it. Being a W who almost walked away, and being involved in an EA...helps me to see the signs in other situtations.
I do want to clearify something about the dating. I do not suggest anything but "friendly" or "causaul" dating. It is not fair to the person you are dating if it is not made clear that you are not looking for a serious R, plus you don't need to get involved with another person while you are M. But if you can go out to dinner or a movie or something "light", then I think it would help your stitch. I do not think people need to get themselves in a "sticky" situation (if you know what I mean). Some people think that dates are having sex....but I don't, and I think it would be a mistake to go that way.
I would suggest that you not make this a dating question to your W if you decide to go that route. You need to say that you have decided that you will start dating while S. Whenever a discussion comes up about anything like S, be sure that you say, "I have decided"...such & such. This shows strength!
If you "feel" like a doormat....then that means she is treating you like one. So, you need to get your manhood on and let her know that you will not be treated like a doormat You don't have to make a discussion about the subject....you simply call her out on anything/anytime that she does something disrepectful....and let her know that you won't tollerate that treatment. It is most important for a woman to respect a man. She cannot love him or be sexually attracted to him if she does not respect him.
Call her out on each time she gives you a bunch of B.S. or she is acting like a b*tch. Don't let her get by with that. However, you make a non-emotional statement...turn around and leave before she says anything. And, if she starts....you just get busy at something and do not get into it with her b/c that will lead to a R talk.
Think ahead of what you are going to say to her on any given situation.....like when she's acting like a b*tch. What would be a good statement to make and then walk away. You need to be prepared for whatever she may throw at you b/c it is going to get hairy.
You did good GAL tonight. Let me tell you what to do about her coming home late. If it is past bedtime.....turn out every light on the place (including the outside lights). Lock the doors (even if she has a key....it makes a statement). Go to bed and pretend to be asleep when she comes in. Do not say anything if she gets mad and says something....just roll over and pretend to go back to sleep. Do this everytime she is out late....and don't say anything the next day about her being out. Act as if you could care less.
If she comes home before bedtime, be busy at something you like (not chores b/c that makes you look too ....well not the model she needs to be seeing right then). You never want to look like the martar! She needs to see you doing something you enjoy so it will appear you didn't even notice she had been out...much less that you were bothered!
Now, don't get the wrong idea of where I'm going with this. Yes, I am encouraging you to toughen up, but it is for her to see you in a better light than she does right now. When she thinks that you are not interested in her or trying to hold her back, then she will stop pulling against you so hard.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for the advice, that was one dark house she come home to the other night! Did not ask about what she did either. I am definitely in need of advice with how to proceed. I feel that I have come to a point of needing to do, as you mentioned, a 180 on the separation thing. I think I am going to wait and see if she makes any concrete progress on moving forward with an apartment and play that card at that point (she has brought apartment up many times with no real action so far except reading apartment finders guides).
I just need to know how best to play this. I want to let her know the following but in a way that is non-punitive and loving:
1) While I am being friendly with her and have previously let her know how much I want her back, I want her to know that she has really crossed over some serious boundaries with me w/ the infidelity and that I do not at all condone this. I don't want to upset her but I also want to show some strength with this and let her know without a doubt that what she is doing has very real consequences (my patience will only last so long). What is the best way to get this point across to a WAW without pursuing? I know that I can deliver this w/o emotion at this point in the sitch.
2) I think your idea of creating the mystery of dating is good and I 100% want to follow this up. You said to play it cool and I do agree that something like this has to be played cool or it will come across as retaliatory or as an empty threat. How is the best way to broach the dating thing in a way that makes her think about what she is throwing away while not seeming like it is an empty threat?
I am envisioning a conversation that covers both of these points once she comes to me with apartment news but I just want to make darn sure I play this card right.
Gucci, Puppy, RobX, others, please chime in on this as well if you happen across this (I know you have experience in busting affairs up). I feel like I need to start getting tougher but not sure about the best approach.
Really struggling with how to proceed with this but resolved that I am not going to become a doormat either.
