Not simple at all for either side. Women don't think like men and men don't think like women. It's amazing that anyone ever gets M'd or stays M'd. It seems more like it's all a big cosmic joke!
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
Is it possible that your W has problems with self esteem? People who have problems with self esteem can use criticism as a way to elevate themselves. If this is a problem that developed in the FOO it could be that being around her parents triggered this for her? Don't know if this applies in your situation. Just throwing it out there.
That is a VERY interesting observation. W's step father, who was there yesterday, and who is, in reality, the father figure who raised W, is THE MOSt hyper critical, never wrong, argumentative people I have ever met. They fought constantly growing up.
I see where W learned the behavior. Might this have something to do with W's inability to accept a compliment, like "you really look great in that skirt"?
When I would compliment her in the past, she never excepted it. Whether it was because she thought I was supposed to, or whether she thought I had a motive for doing so, I couldn't tell you, but after her A, we've discussed it.
OM would tell her those kinds of things and she fell for it as a huge compliment, but if I did, she blew it off. During our conversation, I asked her about that. Why would she accept OM's compliments, but not mine, when they were the same compliment. She couldn't come up with an answer.
If you ever get to that point with your W, you have to bring that up. Since I have, she's been more accepting of my compliments. And if I get one of those noises from her after a compliment that shows she doesn't believe it, I call her on it.
You're absolutely correct. If you get to that point, you both have a lot of work to do. Recovery is a tough thing, but worth it in the end.
H4U.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
see where W learned the behavior. Might this have something to do with W's inability to accept a compliment, like "you really look great in that skirt"?
WHOA! You hit it on the head there! To a person with low or no self esteem, a compliment always seems backhanded. Example:
What you said: "W, you look fabulous in that skirt." (very sincere and with a smile on your face)
What your wife heard: "W, you usually look like you rolled out of bed and didn't think about what you were going to wear. You don't look pulled together and your clothes reflect your scattered brain. Why can't you just get it together?" (Her mind turns everything you say into a criticism because she wasn't complimented growing up. That sort of language isn't in her vocab!
Why do I know this? Because I have the same problem! Working it out in therapy though. Overcoming childhood issues when you don't even realize you have them is nearly impossible without therapy. Has she ever expressed an interest or need for C of any sort for anything?
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
She gives the impression of a overly organized, very confident woman. She could be over compensating. She has not gotten C'ing for this to my knowledge but the C she saw just before the bomb wasn't a M C, but one specializing in personality disorders, anxiety and depression. Don't know, but think she got some terrible advice - be happy even if it means blowing up the family.
Mishka, thanks for sharing your perspective as someone who is working on addressing this issue. It is really, really helpful! In particular, I would be interested in knowing if there is anything that a spouse/partner can do to help someone realize that the compliments we give them ARE sincere.
GIMA, I learned this piece about criticism and low self-esteem from my clinical work and my H's behavior. To the world my H is very confident and gregarious. They would never guess that he has low self esteem. I think that is why he is so threatened by true intimacy and is hesitant to move in that direction. Another poster (AliSuddenly) is piecing with her BF who has the same problem. Ali is really, really good about posting feedback from her BF about his thought processes now that they have reconciled. This might provide some insight to you or others.
With my H, from the beginning (through the wonderful early years) H told me he didn't like it when I said ILY because he thought it wasn't genuine. He had a difficult time believing it. I believe this came from his childhood with an alcoholic mother and absent (and I think) somewhat critical father. To me this understanding has given me a lot of compassion and patience with H for his actions. I certainly have my own foibles and baggage from FOO so this gives me NO sense of superiority ---- just understanding.
GIMA, you said in your post that you got along well with W's parents during lunch. Is it possible that she perceived that they favor you? This might have added to her flare up of this symptom. I found the book "Receiving Love" by Harville Hendrix to be very helpful in understanding this issue. Hendrix talks about the impact of losing both his parents before 6 years of age on his ability to receive love from others. He didn't realize this was an issue until after he had been practicing psychology ~20 years or so and was having marital problems of his own.
I would be interested in knowing if there is anything that a spouse/partner can do to help someone realize that the compliments we give them ARE sincere.
Honestly GAG, I don't know if there is. My H used to compliment me sometimes early in our M and I would snort derisively and blow it off. Other people would give me a compliment about something and I would tell them why they were wrong to compliment with a dismissive comment. Why? Because I don't believe it for a second. My mind immediately thinks they are just playing lip service to keep me at ease, not that they really mean what they said.
On about my 3rd C session I came in after just having blow dried my hair instead of putting it up in a clip in my rush out the door. The C said that my hair looked really nice and flattering down around my shoulders like that. My comment back? "It needs a trim in a bad way and is totally out of control right now." She hopped on it and told me that I needed to learn to accept a compliment for what it was....just an observation of the current state of affairs....not a subvertive way of criticising me.
If my H had complimented me about something over the last several years of our M, I couldn't tell you. He didn't as far as I can remember so I don't know what he could have done to make me believe it. I can tell you that if he had suddenly started doing it though after years of not saying a word, it would have raised my hackles and made me extremely suspicious of his motives.
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
Great point @ W reacting to her parents being nice to me. I thought it couldhave been her being angry they were being nice to me despite her wanting to leave (IF she is still at that point, which I doubt). Don't know, could have been a jealousy thing. Could be my misperception, but it sure seemed like she needed to take me down a notch in front of them. I was not acting ANY differently than I ever have around my in-laws.
I think this is a very helpful conversation in that it allows you to entertain the thought that your wife's behavior is NOT, quite likely, all about you. I'm not defending it, you understand. But if you can manage to depersonalize it, you might be able to take your (natural) knee-jerk defensiveness out of the equation, which must be positive, and aid in the compassion department.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
