Detachment

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I understand your point of view. I have so many regrets and if I had it to do over again, I'd do a lot of things differently. But I've made many changes, and I feel very good about those changes. I just wish that she would have given me a second chance...I'd have spent my life making it up to her. It saddens me that I don't get that chance.

Antlers, if you haven't already you should read this book asap. Mars and Venus Starting Over by John Gray. Everything we need to understand and execute the healing process is right there.

Coach,

Do you think this book would be good for my wife and me right now, considering where we are?

Puppy

[antlers]

Think it'll help?

My main thing right now is to detatch to the point where I'm no longer concerned with her or her life or who's in it, etc.

[RedSoxFan]

Think it'll help?

My main thing right now is to detatch to the point where I'm no longer concerned with her or her life or who's in it, etc.

This is exactly the right book for that. I rarely make book recos but this one is worth it. It covers the healing emotions, mechanics of healing, specific exercies (if needed) and some detailed sections covering issues specific to both men and women. No gimmicks, no BS. Just the real deal.

[antlers]

Think it'll help?

My main thing right now is to detatch to the point where I'm no longer concerned with her or her life or who's in it, etc.

This is exactly the right book for that. I rarely make book recos but this one is worth it. It covers the healing emotions, mechanics of healing, specific exercies (if needed) and some detailed sections covering issues specific to both men and women. No gimmicks, no BS. Just the real deal.

Well OK then. Guess I just need to read the part specific to men? I need all the help I can get with this detatching, especially since I want to be detatched to the point that I described above. I appreciate your help.

[RedSoxFan]

Well OK then. Guess I just need to read the part specific to men? I need all the help I can get with this detatching, especially since I want to be detached to the point that I described above. I appreciate your help.

The book is basically divided into 3 parts. The first part covers the healing process (detachment) followed by a section of specifics for women and finally specifics for men.

For me anyway, it made quick sense of the myriad things I've been struggling with over the last several weeks on this forum. I've received lots and lots of good advice here but didn't quite have a framework to help me make sense of and use it all.

I especially liked the way it helped me to understand that letting go and healing is necessary regardless of whether there is a chance for reconciliation or if you're 100% stick-a-fork-in-t done!

BTW. Don't let me fool you into thinking I have it all figured out...LOL...but the book is good!

[antlers]

I'll check it out on my day off. Accepting that it's over is a painful thing (2 decades). Tryin' to detatch to the point that I don't hurt anymore when I think about her or what's going on in her life or what she's doing, and with who. Hard to believe this is the person that I've known all these years. I'm sick and tired of hurting.

[25yearsmlc]

antlers,

Since you are mainly posting over here now, ask 25yearsmlc for her advice since she is a family law attorney in California. I think somehow you are getting screwed and she will tell you that. You really should fire your L and hire a better one. Talk to her first though. Don't be an idiot in this as I know you are smarter than this.

Kevin

No I won't tell you that you are "getting screwed" b/c your w is getting half the assets in a state that is probably no fault...I don't know where you live, don't practice law ONLINE and am probably not qualified to assess this. I am NOT a family Lawyer in California. (K4, please...)

Most states divide property roughly in half, whether they are community property states or "equitable division, IF the marriage is considered long term. Child support amounts are based on income, and any disparity, standard of living for the child, and who has the most PHYSICAL custody...your L knows this. IS there an issue of distrust with your L?

The issue is whether you trust your L. If so, and if the laws are pretty specific and they often are, (IOW, things are not that arguable in a no fault state as few matters are considered relevant to money, EVEN IF we think they should be....it's the big fat downside to no fault divorce BUT the upside is that it actually usually costs less to get a div, believe it or not--less money to the L's since there's less to argue) so there's only so much wiggle room.

I am not qualifed to assess or comment specifically on your sitch and have never given legal advice here except to say "Get a L" which you have already done...

FWIW, so you know no one who pays spousal support male or female (I know, it's usually the men) thinks they pay too little...but it is what it is. I hope you have a livelihood that enables you to survive this financially and let her live with her choices & their damage and her 2nd thoughts and self doubts. Those are things you don't have to have anymore.

Good luck, and I'm sorry you are here.
J-

[antlers]

Hi 25.

We'll have joint legal and physical custody of the minor kids. It's been that way since she left our home back in February. It's been 50-50 with the kids. They spend 7 nights with me and 7 nights with her out of every 14 nights (not consecutively). Don't really understand why there would be child support as she has a good job and makes good money. She hasn't needed a dime since she left...said she wanted to do it by herself. I tried to help her financially early on. She refused it. I do make more money than her (about 20 grand a year more). They go on Florida vacations and oceanic cruises...OK with me, but she doesn't need money from me for child support. There is no issue of distrust with my lawyer.

It's gonna crush me financially. I'll survive, but my lifestyle will change drastically in a negative way. She'll have lots of money and her lifestyle will change drastically too...in a positive way.

Can't really imagine that she'll have a problem with her choices or the damage they've done, much less second thoughts and/or self doubts. I 'shouldn't' have them anymore at that point. I've chronicled my journey here on this board, and I know that I've done everything in my power to prevent this from happening (since she left). I did everything that I possible could.

[Gardener]

Antlers, if you haven't already you should read this book asap. Mars and Venus Starting Over by John Gray. Everything we need to understand and execute the healing process is right there.

Thanks for this recommendation, rsf. I will check it out, myself.
My recommendation (if it's still in print) is How To Survive The Loss Of A Love by Melba Cosgrove.

[25yearsmlc]

I believe you Antlers, I really do. But you must remember not to get too bitter b/c then she sort of "wins" more. Know what I mean? Women are the ones I usually hear all about this from and boy is that a NON attractive scene.

Sounds like you must have a "long term m" (in Ca 10 years is a guideline min for long term) and it's a community property state...

This isn't a contest, okay? But let me throw out some other scenarios so you can see how often this goes different ways and it ends up depending lots on who files (IN THE MINDS OF THE LBSer) but in the court's eyes it's as if you two mutually agreed "amicably" to go your separate ways... welcome to no fault divorce...

I'm a doc's wife who put her h thru the whole shebang...heck, he was in another school when we met, NOT med school... and we've seen our share of wives putting the guy thru med school, starving, and then residency, starving some more, and then just as the brass ring is within reach, the MD h decides he has "outgrown" the wife/kids and leaves for the younger nurse or other female doctor, and the 1st w gets paid based on the pennies he was earning as a resident at the time of div. She gets nothing for the career she gave up, or the retirement fund she does NOT have, or the income she did not earn thanks to the promotion she had to turn down what with the kids around needing her and not having an available dad, so all she could do was 2 jobs at once, and limited HER future b/c "hey, they were in this together"... Nice...(you would not believe how many couples we know who've had this happen.)

Or my own family -in which I have 2 sisters who div with remarkably diff experiences, based on diff states and diff situations. Fair? um, you decide.

Sister/Div #1 was for my younger sister who was married a total of 13 years. She married a pilot who was a college grad at the time of M. She never worked in the M, and never had kids...she finished college during the M while he supported her. They moved often. Then h div her for OW, and my younger sister got 1/3 of his military retirement (regardless of whether she remarries as it is not spousal support; it's "retirement"), and half the assets at div, AND a significant amount of "transitional income" for 3 years to "get on her feet" b/c she fell apart and imho he signed out of guilt, I think...and I'm glad for my sister BUT then I look at my older sister who put a lot more into her m, figuratively and financially and time wise and physically and got really nothing...(but great kids!).

Yeah My older sister was married 22 years, (not 13) worked the WHOLE time and FULL time as a nurse, AND had 3 kids AND got NO retirement from her L h, and SHE put her h thru law school so HE can now earn 6 figures but she got no spousal income but $100 per month based on his BEFORE law school income (WTH??) ...she also cashed in her 401k for his last year's tuition....AND he cheated on her, she forgave him and then he AGAIN cheated on her and he div her for OW and left the m with his newly found high income potential and no debts too...nice.

That same Ex BIL earns more than my sister AND her new h combined, and ex bil came into the marriage as a sales guy making $50k a year. Left it quite a bit wealthier...I can't explain the discrepancy to my older sister. BTW, she's not bitter. My younger sister is bitter, and always negative, whereas my older sister is among the most contented women I know. She's happily M too. Maybe that's why!

My point is I hear these injustices all the time. They go both ways and besides, really, is it a contest? Is it a "war between the sexes"? OF course not and I know you know this....

fwiw, my lawyer x bil who married OW a woman he NOW refers to as "high maintenance"...well that x bil is miserable but it took him 2 years to stop saying "I'm happier!!" Two years of my older sister getting the floor yanked out from under her feet & seeing him go on vacations and buying a new car...getting a tattoo in a "hidden" place and red sports car with a vanity plate...

BUT her happiness is all I care about (though I admit I do gloat now and then...) she has remarried someone who "gets" her and she is happier now than she ever was with #1 h, sorry to say.

yeah, it took two+ years for him to get that he wasn't so dang happy after all and maybe, maybe it wasn't my sister or the kids or his job or some other EXTERNAL thing that wasn't clicking right for him...maybe it's something internal...he is seeing a c now and a mc with his new wife.

My sister is kind to her ex, but feels sorry for him in a detached sort of way. Make sense? I'm saying there is sometimes justice but it may not be in your wallet...

Oh, Child support is something the courts say you owe b/c you have kids. Not b/c the ex w "needs" it. The state does not want to pay for svcs, and the kids are supposed to be "the bounty of your wealth" etc....

IOW She could win the lottery and not NEED a cent but the court would still say you owe your share b/c hey, they're your kids, right? It's the spousal support that you may be wondering about. Sorry that I don't remember how long you've been M, and I'm assuming you are in CAL but I don't know why I assume that, but 10 years is a guideline in Cal and what I know here is b/c of my h's MLC and my poss div so I did some reading on it obviously. I also hired a good L I liked a lot. But thanks to her, I only filed for a sep, mostly to protect our assets from his "MLC fevers"... I did some research but even I, as a L, hired one of my own. I'd never dream of a "do it yourself" Div for a couple reasons--#1 KIDS, and we do have some assets and that matters...I don't want to see them squandered.

I realize others may feel diff and that's fine.

But since you live in this state you know the laws already. Um, have you discucssed with your L the idea of having a clause in the div that says "cohabitation" = remarriage and ALL spousal support stops then? Also if she remarries OM then his income will count though I don't recall the formula of if he has kids too...what a mess...

I hesistate to say more here on this topic despite having some understanding of it, b/c it obviously gets construed as actual legal advice and it's NOT meant as such, so forgive me if that has confused you as it has others. I am not giving legal advice here, and it has been a long time since I rep anyone on Div law and never "specialized" or became certified in it.

But I'm so glad you like your L!! Given that, have them explain things so you don't feel so victimized. Feeling like a victim slows YOUR progess and happiness which is the focus now, right?

And you are mind reading & projecting a lot...as if "She's having great sex ALL the time, and he always makes her laugh, he ALWAYS knows just what she is thinking/feeling and she never even has to tell him BUT he also loves to listen to her, and he is NEVER wrong or annoying and that is the ONLY kind of memory she has of me, b/c she was ALWAYS unhappy with me and blah blah blah..." Come on, there are things she'll miss about you, trust me on that. He cannot be perfect. He is not.

You will have your moments in her heart and mind but the more you want to hear about them or wonder, the more she'll shut them down. She has to right now so she can feel good about the choices. Don't force her to defend the choices, by challenging them. Accept them and be on your way. I KNOW one thing for sure as a woman. No way will she not ever wonder or 2nd guess herself if she's the one breaking up a family, which she is...no way. And no woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of her children --with their own father. Keep being the best dad you can be b/c you are irreplaceable...

So you let her hear that voice in her head, don't block it out by using a parental voice telling her she's wrong and selfish and blah blah blah...let her figure this out. I'm so sorry but it may take her a few years to get it. It may well be too late but that is not your problem or responsibility...

This too, shall pass.
((( j )))