Who is this person?

[25yearsmlc]

DaybyDay,

You're quite welcome. Here's round 2 and it'll be "it" for awhile. But I think a lot of what I posted to Lost41 and Stuck8 are applicable to you as well. Don't be too hard on yourself despite what I just wrote. I did my share of pleading my case too. I recall thinking if I were in front of the Supreme Court, I'd win my "argument & case" but my h could not be reached back then. And guilt was the worst thing I could do for or to him though it'd have worked on ME...we cannot apply those things to them. FWIW, I personally don't support the snooping into OW activities unless you think it would give you closure. Otherwise, what's the point of the torture?
As for their recall or marital revisions...My h does not recall some of the things he said. I believe him. Back when his "MLC/WHATEVER THE HELL IT WAS", was going on, I asked him point blank if he thought I was bluffing or he was just willing to take a chance on losing his family and he said "willing to take the chance" and he has NO RECALL OF THIS and denied ever saying it, til I told him where I was standing when he said it and what I was doing....so sometimes the alien abduction description applies...)

Your h IS confused, that's fair to say. Hence his own wording of "transition". But if your kids want to share with you, let them...hear them. It's a fine line to walk b/c you want them to feel loved by both their parents but it's hard to explain how dad can love them but move out. You don't want to pretend it didn't happen or it doesn't hurt you or them. OF course it does. But it's not their job to comfort you; it's your job to comfort them and protect them. If you take the rap for the sep, it will backfire and if you blame him solely, it backfires worse, (trust me on that).In fact, bad mouthing a spouse when getting a div in this state is called "parental alienation" and can seriously hurt your chances of custody. It's just a bad idea really. But the M or the Div or the sep or whatever this becomes, is not about the kids and they need to hear that a lot.

A child psychologist I saw to get help for our d12, said to tell her that whatever choices I had to make, I'd make the ones that would lead most to HER happiness, as her happiness was my priority, and this was very reassuring to her. She wondered if we were moving again, losing the house, etc. So, if that helps, say it. Often...D12 told me 6 months later when we were up in Alaska for the year, which she agreed to, "YOU SAID MY HAPPINESS WAS THE PRIORITY" So I know she recalled it verbatim....boy they can really remember stuff like that and catch you a little off guard...(as in "No d12, I didn't mean you get everything you want for Christmas...not THAT kind of happiness...oops"....)

be there for the kids and your own pain will subside, as you make them and their issues your focus. Take the microscope off your loss. Too many lbs'ers keep staring at the hole that they forget to ever fill it --and they make sure their kids know it too... Life is short. I can honestly say I know now that I will be happy the rest of my life, (well, absent losing my kids to death or some other horrible things) but I have FAITH in LIFE and GOD and that does not guarantee my h will outlive me or never leave me or anything like that. It just means, I'm alright no matter what. This gives me peace. And it seems to attract my h. I know he was attracted to my confidence when we first met and he was one of many suitors I had (do they use that term anymore? I feel as if I sound Elizabethan...) and I guess he liked the hunt as most men do. What were you like when you first met your h? Was he the pursuer? Read the 5 Love Languages by Chapman when you get a chance. I know, you must have 10 books by your bed, right? (You do know not to show them to the kids or your h right?)

Forgiveness is a learned skill. I never saw it growing up. If your h didn't either, he may not know it's possible. You are not near doing it so don't bother telling him you did. You have not. It's a long process like pregnancy...you conceive it, and then it grows and one day it is born and you know it's done...make sense? Retrovaille was most helpful to me on this issue.
So, remember the brilliant words of a DB coach I had who said
Keep the road home paved and smooth. Don't throw stuff up at him when you want to have an adult conversation. There may be a time when he revises history so much that you can't let it slide but make sure it's dang important...
On another note, I met men (and was not intimate with any) & enjoyed the company. AND it greatly lessened my fear of being single again. I didn't want to stay m due to fears..But I learned something valuable....It confirmed that the things I liked in other men, are traits my h already has. So why on earth would I start over with another man when my h is the father of my children and has what I want? Plus ANY man over the age of 35 will have his own baggage that I'd have to deal with, and he'd have to get along with my kids, too etc... I came to this conclusion on my own and believe that h must have as well. It took us a good couple years to be sure of this. (Not saying I don't still have moments... )

But if you validate your h's reasons for leaving, and interrogate him and nag him to hurry up and wake up, or "how could you do this, etc?" you'll push him away. Conversely, if you sit around moping but making sure he knows you are wounded and not over him, AND OR are just waiting for him to "get it someday" and you'll wait forever and ever and be a doormat...he may well treat you like one. Most people will treat you as badly as they can get away with...sorry but it's true.

Give him the time and space to discover what I and my h discovered; we were good "catches" & good matches, and the grass is greener where it gets watered...and yada yada...don't hover. In fact, you need to wander off some yourself so you can see what life is like without him being the center of your universe. It's suffocating him really. Are you meeting new people? It is crucial to meet folks who don't all know "YOUR H LEFT YOU!" b/c that does not define you. Unless you let it. Don't be a victim.
So do you want to nag/cajole or be a doormat? Is there another way???
YES!! The other route...GAL & Detaching. There's a site around here somewhere on what detachment is. Maybe on faithfulH's thread? Or brandnewday's and anyhow, read it. Re-read it as much as you need to.
It is not complicated. It's simple. Hard, but simple.
good luck,
j

[Butterfly1]

DBD - how are you feeling about not going to the therapy session and with the NC choice??

25 - wow. Your posts are so inspiring. I want to hijack and ask if you would be so kind as to check out my thread when you get a chance. Like DBD, I'm dealing with a very angry man.

However, he is just now filing for legal sep, not D, promising to attend MC in a month or so, etc, so ...
"I'm new and wondering if this works" is my thread.

THX

[Day by Day]

@Hope4Luv- while I wish H and I could have had a MC session, I know I and possibly he was not in a state for progress. He's too angry and I was too nervous and hurt and angry. I really don't want to be NC, but I do feel it's best. I'm tired of being hurt, walking on eggshells, and feeling like he's punishing me. While it seemed before with contact that things were getting better, he wasn't respecting me. I was being a doormat. And I think it was keeping me from GAL for real. Thinking of you. ((Hugs))

Quote 25yrsmlc:

"Til then, DETACH...I think your real fear is you'll see the selfishness he now is showing and that maybe this IS HIM....and maybe you never saw it before. Well if that's true, okay fine. Better to know now than spend your whole life pretending he's someone he's not and always disappointing you."

This really struck me as my C said that H is a controlling person and that he managed it before, but now he is no longer pretending he's not. Then your comment... so you picked up on my fear. Gotta figure that out.

"He wants to be single right now and you are making it so easy. How? By pointing out the drag of family life and all the NEEDS the kids and you have that HE must meet. Instead, be having a ball. Let him realize (without you forcing him to, which you can't do anyhow) that HE is the one missing out. He's the one facing loss, NOT YOU..."

I was bored in our M in the past year, now I don't have to follow his likes and choices. My life centered around him and all his activities. I didn't like that. I need to remember what I did like to do. It was terrible when he did ask me to choose something to do after I complained, my mind went blank because I had forgotten. So, yes. I must GAL. Yes, it'll make me more attractive and happy. And yes, I remember H saying something to the effect of him wishing I would quit relying on him for my own happiness. I hadn't realized I was like that. Eew.


Journaling:

Working on GAL. I need to focus MUCH more on that.

What I'm doing:

Had my haircut and lightened again. This time even lighter.

I went out last night with a friend and she brought along another very bubbly friend for me to meet. We went for drinks and to listen to a band play. Ugh. I really hate to think I might have to be in the singles scene. For sure I know that I'm not ready to even think about dating. Just had fun.

Today went for my run and hung out for breakfast with my friends.

Making plans with my friends for our race that is out of town next month. We'll be staying overnight.

Focusing on the heavy dose of advice I got from 25. It's helped me see how I wasn't doing enough for me or the kids. And how I need so much, much more patience.

Accepting that it's such a long road.

Planning on going to fall festivals this weekend.

Giving up on hearing from H. He will have to contact eventually for the kids. Gotta stop thinking about what he's thinking or doing--it won't make sense anyhow.

Search for a heavy-duty raincoat for when he does spew.

[sandi2]

I want to encourage you to know what it is you really want....and then stick to your guns to get there. It just seems your decisions are bouncing all over the place.

I was really shocked that you did not keep the MC session ...(even though I didn't think that he was anywhere close to reconciling and therefore not ready for such a meeting)....you wanted it so badly and then didn't show up. That was a sure fire way of making him even more angry at you....don't you think?

At first, I thought your were being afraid of his anger and that is why you chose not to go to the MC. Plus you made this statement....and it really concerned me that you would make a life-long decision with this attitude of "retreating".

I'm retreating and going to live my own life.

If you decide to live your own life...make sure it is based on the fact that you "want" it that way.....and not b/c you are retreating or b/c you do not have the courage to stick to what you really wanted to do.

Then you decided, after not showing up for the MC, that you would go into NC mode. You admitted that this would make your H even more angry than he already was. But, you know what stood out to me? It was how angry you were when he did not react to your no-show at MC and neither to NC from you. So, were you doing all of that just to get some type of response from him? Apparently you were not serious about making a life on your own if you knew all the time that you were waiting to hear from him. Do you see how you appear to be wishy-washy on where you stand? I just hope you can come to terms with what you truly want and stick to that instead of making things worse for yourself.

Good job on new hair-do and getting out with friends. If anything will make your H sit up and take notice, it will be for you to look fantasic and getting a life for yourself!

[Day by Day]

Thanks Sandi, I appreciate your input.
Yes, I admit I am wishy-washy and my thoughts are all over the place. I feel it's fear though.

What I meant with that statement was to back off and focus on my own life. But, I wasn't waiting to hear from him after the no-show at MC. I was already afraid of his anger during the session and lack of trust that the C would keep it under control.

And as for the NC, I'm taking a breather from the hurts he inflicts on me. I'm hoping he'll calm down in time. I was angry about hearing how he texted a statement to our D that was meant for me and it got delivered to me like he wanted. It did push my buttons. I don't want her to get in the middle of sarcastic comments meant to hurt me. Of course she wouldn't understand the comment... then she'd come to me to ask when he wouldn't explain it. But I didn't contact him.

I know that he's going to be mean, blaming, unfair, etc. but I need to get stronger. I know... it's about him, not me. I'm working through understanding what I can do (GAL, detaching, 180s). I'm hoping with NC we can both figure out what to do. The horrible things he said to me while I pursued him pre-DB hurt me deeply.

I love him, but then I don't understand how I could love someone who can hurt me that deeply. I'm confused.

[Butterfly1]

Well, I have to comment I understand how the meanness can cut so deeply. I want to say that I also get it how NC is sometimes the only way not to be hurt. I liken my H sometimes to a charging bull and I'm wearing red. The only thing to do is get OUT OF THE WAY.

I respect the need to protect yourself from hurts. I have struggled with how DB doesn't really address the abusive spouse all that much.

Perhaps now is not the time to be communicating with him. Only you know that. Maybe it's time to GAL not for a reaction, but purely to start making yourself happy. Taking care of yourself right now seems like the most critical step. Take care.

[Day by Day]

He emailed me. It was a proposal for a visitation schedule planned all the way to December. Just a "here's what I propose, let me know your thoughts."

PLEASE someone suggest to me HOW to reply since I feel like I'm screwing up. I know I'm being a coward. I know I need thicker skin. I must get over my fear of his anger. (He hadn't ever been angry at me like this before.) This is getting in the way of me thinking how to respond. I'm sitting on responding since he doesn't need a reply right away anyhow. And I don't want to sound angry, I'm not feeling that way--I feel afraid and like he has all the control.

I know I shouldn't say much, I should be polite... anything else?

Oh yes Hope, I'm GAL to make myself happy. Not looking for a reaction from him because I don't have hope that it would anyway. He's blind with hate for me.

[Day by Day]

Got another email. He wants to see the kids tomorrow for two hours. Then he tells me he'll be out of the country for the week and to "confirm if they will be available".

I'm thinking of replying something along the lines of

Ok. Fine.

I know his LL is words of affirmation but he's been a real jerk lately and doesn't deserve any. So, do I give it anyway or not? My C had told me to "kill him with kindness". I'm getting confused with DB and other advice.

[Day by Day]

^^bump^^

[Day by Day]

Here's what I'm responding to the email on seeing the kids today:

Good morning H,
Yes, the kids will be available today for you to see them. Although D13 will probably be at the barn.
I will return around 8:45-9 so you can stay longer than 8 if you like.
Have a safe trip.

Good enough, right? No pursuing. Polite, not too much convo.