Who is this person?

[Day by Day]

Thanks for your words Ron, I believe it would have been that he would have just vented. My IC agreed I would have only gone to get hurt. Good luck to you, sounds like you are on the right course.

What I didn't mention, part of what lead up to me deciding not to go was our communication a couple days before. I just didn't want to write about it, but now I can.

Before the bomb, H had bought a pair of concert tickets which are for this wknd. I had responded to one of his emails with a "btw, what's the news on the tickets". He replied that he didn't know yet and left a voicemail to find out by Monday. On Monday after the miscommunication about visiting the kids, he said not to worry about HIS tickets. He said he will figure out what to do with them when he gets them.

I found that to be aggressive, I backed off and we have had no contact since then. It hurts to think that he might be going with someone else and having that experience without me. I had been so looking forward to spending it with him, but I know it would be very awkward now anyhow. I seriously doubt he will miss going. It meant too much to him.

I really wish I knew what I was dealing with, MLC or WAS. I do think there's depression though. He's too stubborn and full of pride and contempt for him to miss me with NC. The GAL is working for my PMA, but there's no improvement in H.

[Stronger]

So, what did H say when you didn't show up?

[Day by Day]

Nothing. Nothing at all. He doesn't write me or text me much less call.

I'm so mad right now. D13 texted him this morning that she misses him and she's worried because he looks so tired lately. (I posted on Hope4Luv's thread about advice she got from the pastor.) Well H replied to not worry he's doing great that he's "transitioning" and that one day when she grows up she'll know what that means. ARGH!!! Of course that was meant for me to know. Please someone give me their thoughts on this. It has pushed my buttons like he wanted to.

[Day by Day]

I thought I was detaching. The way this bugs me shows me I'm not. Why? I'm sick of this craziness. He doesn't deserve me. Why am I hoping to reconcile. I just can't wrap my mind around this. Why does he hate me so much? Ugh. I feel like I'm at square one again.

[Stronger]

Maybe you need to tell your children not share such things with you....???
Detaching is almost impossible some days but it does get easier.

It's a tough road.

You want to reconcile because you took this promise seriously. It makes you a great person.

[Day by Day]

Thanks for your encouraging words Stronger.

I know it's too late now and I feel ok that I didn't go to MC that day, but did I make it worse by not telling him I was going to be a no-show? After his email on Monday, I didn't want to talk to him anymore. Probably that wasn't a good idea.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks Esox,

Hmmm... well, that's what our big fight was about. I am jealous of his running partner. A blond, cute twenty-something who he says is engaged. Here's the story that I didn't start off with:
Back in Jan. I met him at the finish of a marathon and he was desperate asking where is A? It put me off that he was so concerned for her. He said he just wanted to know how she did since they were running together. Then in March there was a corporate 5k and I met her. Very friendly has lots of friends. She was asking me if I was going with my H to the Marine Corp marathon... I thought stupid question, of course I would, I support him in all his marathons. This got me bothered and I told him I didn't like him running with her. At this time he joined FB and started adding lots of single women from his running group and said not many men he knows have FB. (BS)

In May before our fight I told him I'm very bothered about him running with a single woman and it's inappropriate. I saw on his FB that she said she'd met him in 5 after work which was new because he always ran in mornings before work. I got furious with him because he hid it from me... bad sign!! He said there's nothing going on and she's engaged. She has a photo of her BF on her profile. But his profile has the same photo. I know, Cheaters LIE. Well, I blew up and lost it. The fight was ugly. I posted on his FB that I hope he won't be running on Mother's Day to spend it with me and that p*ssed him off.

YES I BET IT DID P*SS HIM OFF....I have not finished reading your whole thread and can't right now. But I've gotten this far and am shocked that you'd post this to him on fb, publicly, after reading the DB books....this is a huge no no. Makes you look weak and petty and angry and SOOO NOT Detached. Sorry. I realize you were hurt and think he's cheating. Maybe he wants to or has.

But Do you see how you did nothing positive for yourself by posting this? IF anything, you made HER look preferable or at least made yourself look like someone he would not want to be around. OMG.....sorry but until you "get this", the mistakes will continue. There's hope in your sitch b/c he hasn't filed and he loves the kids (Listen to stronger and sandi, he KNOWS this hurts the kids and he KNOWS they miss him.) YOU don't ever ever need to remind him of that or how much they enjoy their time with him nor do you need to shut them up so as to walk on egg shells around him. Let his r's with the kids exist without anything from you except making them available to each other. Don't block contact but stop trying to fix this or make him see it or "remind" him of what's obvious...Will finish your thread later but honestly you already know enough to do this. The question is whether you will.

As my DB coach once said, "Don't force the WAS to face the consequences of their choices...LIFE does that for them, and it's not your job." Besides, it usually reads as punitive and it usually is.

I see lots of "Looking upbeat" but so much internal obsessing that it seems as if your GAL is all an act. "Fake it til you make it" DOES Help if you can't manage more but you will need to actually LIVE the new life to be happy. At some point it has to be real and only you can make that happen. Start imagining life without your H but in a good light. What can you picture that shows you as a happy woman in the future without him? Focus on that. Don't fear "losing your feelings" for him. Lose them, for now. He's the father of your children and love is a choice. If the time comes when he mans up to the job and wants back into the M, you will KNOW that he means it and you can then choose to love him again if he's the man for you. Til then, DETACH...I think your real fear is you'll see the selfishness he now is showing and that maybe this IS HIM....and maybe you never saw it before. Well if that's true, okay fine. Better to know now than spend your whole life pretending he's someone he's not and always disappointing you.

You read my post to Lost41 and most, if not all of it, applies to your sitch.
Back off. Don't force the "A" issue b/c you may discover something you don't want to . See if you can find my post to stuck about OP...this is already too long!
j-



He took me off as a friend and deleted my comment. The next day he moved out to my SIL's house and has been there ever since.

So you KNOW what does NOT work. So don't do anything like that again. He wants to be single right now and you are making it so easy. How? By pointing out the drag of family life and all the NEEDS the kids and you have that HE must meet. Instead, be having a ball. Let him realize (without you forcing him to, which you can't do anyhow) that HE is the one missing out. He's the one facing loss, NOT YOU...

He denies and swears to his mother and grandmother there is no OW and is offended (holy cow) that I doubt him. He is deeply offended the kids heard us fighting and he is humiliated. Ugh. I haven't proved there's OW, but the signs are there to me and incredibly he keeps denying it. I found on FB pictures of the weekend of the blow up of him with a different blond hugging her. He apologized and said it was inappropriate behavior. He was flirty and trying to get the attention of other women before this all happened and I called him on it. He said he said he just liked to see if he still "had it". Another bad sign.

I don't know if now almost 5 months later if there is now a OW. Don't feel like finding out. He says he's too busy with his own life to have anyone in it.

Drop it. Drop the whole issue. Unless you KNOW for certain that an OW would mandatorily end your m b/c of how you feel about it, stop snooping and no matter what, stop harping on it. If you discover an A, then deal with it. Right now you are simply harping on something you can;t prove and he denies. Who do you think he feels is wrong? Trust me on this, no matter what, he thinks YOU are the wrong party. In his mind, he moved out so he's a tad free AND he denies an A and you can't prove one so you are "wrong" in his eyes and you only fuel his desire to flee. Stop the R talk --OMG and "A" talk is R talk designed for what? Do you really truly want him to say "Yes I love OW" or "YES there IS OW but I don't know how I feel except now that it is all out in the open and the world knows I have to make myself RIGHT by leaving you. B/C if I return to you now, after the world and you know about OW, then it means I was wrong and they'll all know. The fewer people who think he's having an A, the easier it is for HIM to figure out what he wants and to imagine a M with you. If you throw this in his face without any proof why on earth would he imagine a happy m to you in the future?


So guess I needed to get out this other info on my situation. I'm pretty disgusted with it all. I hate this flirty man he's turned into and doesn't think he's playing with fire running with single women. I was and still am bothered by his attachment to his running partner.

Don't know what to do about this.

GAL, that's what. You are under the illusion that you have some control here and you don't. ALL you control is how you behave. If you are a shrew around him, you may as well shove him into her arms. Instead, be the mother of his children, an attractive great catch, a trophy wife who listens to her h like a lover and validates him BUT who is self respecting enough that she's not a doormat...what were you like when you dated? What's your R with his family? Don't slime him to them. Do not.
Plus it hurts you in custody arrangements and your mil does not want to lose contact with those kids so don't make this harder than it already is.
You have the info you need. Do you have the willpower?
(( j ))

[25yearsmlc]

I finished your thread...

You quit rather fast. Oh well. What does quitting mean anyhow? I have 2 relatives who div and remarried their x's years later. NO, no one "waited" for the other, they all moved on.They ALL GAL....for real. Then b/c of the kids they stayed a bit connected, and eventually their tempers cooled and they each had evolved and improved and found that what they originally had going for them was in fact pretty good. Plus their mistakes were not repeated. They reconciled and both couples said the 2nd time around was better. So who knows?

You must lose your anger. And stop asking unanswerable questions. Who cares if it's MLC or WAS? I used to incessantly wonder but I realized it changes nothing. It does not matter. Your h left you and your kids. Too bad for him.

Focus on helping your children through this terrible sense of rejection. Encourage them and reassure them that you both love them and emphasize what will stay the same and not change in their lives. The school or house, neighborhood, etc. Heck their dad must have worked long hours anyhow. They may get more one on one time now anyhow. My sil told me my brother had more time with their d after the div and that's true. Not wonderful news but a little silver lining around a big gray cloud. Learn to embrace those silver linings. Explain their dad is confused and if they say "he's selfish" then let them. But Never make it worse. He's part of them. They must be reassured of THEIR value and that they had nothing to do with his leaving. Expect anger from them too as they'll fear showing it to him at times for fear he won't come back. They must know you will never leave them. They'll recall who acted with dignity and compassion and who ran away and deserted them.
You are modelling behavior for them so that when life throws them a curve ball you show them not to cave in and huddle in the fetal position...

The times he spends with them that are good are times he'll wonder if it could have been better with you. If you are a drag reminding him of his faults, or guilting him, then he'll be glad you are not around when he's with them....

As I said before, you have the cognitive info you need. You need more patience and you need to lose the anger. I found Marianne WIlliamson to be helpful in that in her book 'Return to Love". She has others too. I used to listen to them when I'd go on my "anger" walks and she'd calm me down a lot. THEN I'd let h call me if he needed to. Always did those exercises if I thought he'd call.

Also my h and I attended Retrovaille a few months ago. It does NOT shove religion down your throat and I have no idea who gave you that impression. True, they say the word "God"...but my h is not Catholic & there were several non-Catholics there. Generic religion was there if we wanted it but nothing was forced. In fact, it is married couples who "host" the weekend not a minister or priest. NO ONE SAID THE WORD SIN.... Their stories are really tough to hear, and the feeling is that "IF THEY GOT THROUGH THEIR TROUBLES...we could get through ours". That's how ours was anyhow. (One couple had a kid die and A's and all that. ) We experienced A wonderful miracle and we saw many others. We'd been together in "piecing" for 2 years, when we felt we needed a "boost" of sorts. More tools. So we went. THANK GOD...

An atheist might be turned off but there's no one there to "guilt" your h which is probably what he fears. They even tell you NOT to drop bombs at the weekend so no one is too vulnerable. A priest came and said "if any of you have issues with the Church or any other Church and if I can help you to heal, please let me know..." I respected that.
I think at least one couple went who planned on divorcing but the WAS spouse came b/c they figured it would help smooth the div process. But instead they reconciled or at least they have for a few months now. So who knows?

Okay so for now it's not going to happen for you. Fine. At least you'll know a resource and poss approach for it if the time comes. But that time is not soon so don't pursue. DO NOT PURSUE HIM....he likes the hunt of being single so let yourself be some prey and let him wonder if there are other hunters who might be hunting. BE mysterious. This does NOT mean you must date. You are not in shape for that really. Emotionally and it would not be fair to a man. But you don't have to tell your h that. He notices more than he'll admit. I KNOW THIS. And don't assume that all the other single men are having a ball and tellling him how great it is. On the contrary...on the contrary. I have 5 brothers and they ALL prefer being married to being single, unless their m's were really bad. The div ones all remarried and each has said they wished they'd worked on their first M's more, except the one who married a woman who could not forgive. My brother had no choice at one point. His mistakes were not great, but she would not let him forget them and no one can live that way for long...he's happier now with his 2nd wife and he's a better h to her too. Oh well. 1st w's loss.

So now how are your GAL Efforts going? You see, regardless of whether it's a MLC or WAS or a BRAIN malfunction or all 3 or an alien abduction with alien spew you must ignore, (Wear a raincoat!!) your plan is the same.

Don't you see that? You GAL, you are positive & upbeat, and IF he contacts you then it's all about the kids or what he brings up but if it's R talk , steer away from it gently unless he's insistent and then listen. and IF HE DISCUSSES HIS CAREER or brags about it, THEN PRAISE HIM...

Have you read The Five Love languages? Your h may need "words of affirmation" and if he does and you aren't verbal about it, then his "bank account" is low or empty...Your h wanted to "brag" to you about his job. SOOO Unless his job threatens you like an OW does, why on earth wouldn't you jump at the chance to pat him on the back? I don't get your confusion on that. That's what it means to "listen like a lover"...it'd be diff if he brought OW up and bragged about HER...see the diff?

1) Lose the anger in front of him
2) Listen like a lover
3) NO r talk from you
4) if R talk comes up you can say "If I had it all to do over again, I'd do things differently" and you know the rest as I posted in on L41's.
5) Go to some c for you.
6) STOP Obsessing about what your next move is. You are only in control over you and GAL so YOU decide your next move. If you want to go to a concert, go. Are there only 5 seats in the auditiorium? Why on earth can't you go without him and with a friend?
7) NO Depressed affect around him as that HAS to have been a burden to him to prop your mood up.
8) Embrace your age. It's better than death and besides, the more you remind him of YOUR age, the more you make younger woman more appealing.
9) GAL and enjoy it.
10) take charge of YOUR LIFE'S HAPPINESS as no one else can or will, ever. Plus it makes you appealing and attractive and attracting and relieves him of the responsbility he never should have had.

11) Don't worry so much about getting every "answer" or convo right. If you lose the anger and do what the rest of these steps are, you'll be fine enough.
12) Contrast the negatives with positives
Good luck I know this is hard. Mother Teresa Hard....I get it. Been there, done that.
(( j ))

PS note my timeline in the signature block so you understand why Faithfulh and sandi2 and brandnewday and I all say "Be patient"....you need a realistic time line.

[Day by Day]

Thanks so much 25yearsmlc, I appreciate you reading so much of my thread so far. Yeah, I needed to hear it. I hope you have time to read the rest of it. I'm going to work much harder on GAL. I've been having a tough few days.

Oh, and I hadn't read DB at the time of him moving out. Wished I did.

I'm off to my CODA meeting. I really need it today.

[Day by Day]

I appreciate you reading my whole thread!

I feel like I just had a counseling session. I'll print it out and reread it.