Newcomer, want to keep my hope alive!

[antlers]

After all this, and all this time, the LBS is going to become the WAW.

This is not easy.

I know it's not easy. It's probably part of the defining moment of our lives! Coach says "the people here who have success are the ones who see the good in the situation"!

[BigJohn]

IWITW,

Sorry I am just now getting back to you. The stars must be aligned- I just had a long conversation about financials with my W tonight. Like yours, she either can't or doesn't want to grasp the financial ramifications of D. Anyway, enough of my sitch and crazy W. Preliminarily, here are my thoughts:

Mediators solutions where:
- We get divorced, and stay in the same house until those properties are divested and I can afford to move out and pay child support.
-- I told them no way could I live with her while she is out dating other guys. Her reply was: "Well, I wouldn't flaunt the guys I am dating, or bring them home, so that would be ok with her." Uh, no, no way could I do that, and maintain my emotional well being. I just couldn't do it.

No question I agree with you here. But she is the one who needs to go, not you.

- I stop paying mortgage on one or both investment properties and let them get foreclosed on.

I know you have probably put a lot of thought into this already, but a couple questions for you: Are these SFRs that are currently vacant or do you have tenants in one or both? Sounds like that may be the case- or you are upside down on one or both. Without knowing more- why not quit claim one of the properties over to your W? Worse case scenario try to pull of short sales on both to minimize the damage as much as possible. Is there anyway to use one or both properties to sweeten the settlement pot with your W? More info would be helpful here.

I asked for a couple of days to review what we have, and figure out what I need to do.

If you still can, I'd ask the mediator for more like two weeks/10 business days minimum to try and figure this stuff out. Before talking with your L, I would consult first with a financial advisor to discuss your options in terms of handling the investment properties along with any other related financial issues.

I don't see a way out of this, other than pursuing this through a L, and for me to:
- Get out of this house, before the emotional strain becomes to much.
- Convert to paying her child support per the guidelines and transfer bills for our house to her, and current household mortgage.

Just how much custody were you preliminarily awarded for D8? I understand that 30/70 is typical on the East Coast, but I would imagine you could challenge it if you wanted to- and presuming that additional custody would be beneficial to D8. Was your W awarded alimony as well? It sounds like you are really getting hammered. If there is any chance you could pull off a deal to keep the house yourself, I'd consider staying put a while longer. But I understand the emotional strain you are under and that it may not be worth it.

I believe that I will be calling the L tomorrow, who incidentally told me to do the above plan 3 months ago, and put myself in front of this D, like you BJ.

Since my name is the only one on the line financially, she has nothing to lose, and is already divested emotionally, so I don't know what other option I have.

Even if all the properties are only titled in your name, your W still has a 50% stake in them. From what I've read, Massachusetts is an "Equitable Distribution State" which is slightly different than my home state of California, which is a "Community Property" State. But with regards to property like the family residence, 50/50 division is typical. So it would seem your W does have a financial stake in the sitch.

You need to turn this around and take control. From the sound of it, you have a better command of the financials than your W- use this knowledge and sophistication to your and D8's advantage. Likewise, as the level headed parent in contrast to your W, you need to take a commanding lead with regards to the welfare of D8. You mentioned her recently expressing distress at the thought of separating from her SS. Have you spoken and/or met with the school counselor yet at D8's school? Is D8 currently seeing a counselor outside of school? If you are a member of a church- have you explored possible counseling resources there? If you haven't already, this is something you need to own yourself and be proactive about.

Have you investigated any of the Father's Right's organizations out there dedicated to helping fathers to ensure that they are treated with equality and fairness in a D court? Google "Father's Rights". You may find some very good information from these organizations.

I'll try to check in again with you tomorrow. Hang in there.

[iwantittowork]

BJ, first and foremost, I must express my most heartfelt gratitude to you for taking so much of your time to analyze my situation and offer such long, thought out and thoughtful replies.

This goes as well to everyone else on this site, and that replies to others sitch's as well as mine. I often can't believe how much caring and help there is on this site, and from almost complete strangers.

If some day I ever get to meet any of you in person, it may well be one of the most emotional experiences of my life.

This may well get to be a long reply, but I want to analyze what I am thinking currently for my sitch, including answers to your reply.

First, on my sitch, we do not have any agreement in place yet, nor any custody awarded yet, etc.

But she is the one who needs to go, not you.

This has been my thought, and I have asked her to leave, but she is not budging. I can not force her out either, just as she can not force me out.

I need to temper this as well, with what I want for my future. For 9 years now, I have commuted 3+ hours a day to support my family, as well as working 10-12 hour days. I didn't realize the stress and strain this had on me and our R until the past year or so. As such, one of my goals is to move closer to my work. This means I do not want the marital home, and WAW has also said she does not want the marital home as well, as it will be too big for her without all the family there. That influences a lot on my plans going forward.

Investment properties:
These are not rentals, one is a vacant lot, and one is having a house built on it, so essentially 'spec' homes, and right now, nothing but money going out, nothing coming in.

Financial Status:
I mentioned that I am the only one at risk her financially, because it is my name, and my name alone on all of the debt, mortgages, etc. She can WAW with no impact to her financially.

Why this matters to me currently:
As it stands, she will be the custodial parent, L and everyone have already said I have very little, if any, chance at fighting this, so that puts me in the financial cross hairs. I have seen and read about what can happen if WAW decides to file first, she can put motions in place to force me to pay for everything, including the current marital home mortgage, until a contested D is settled.

That is why I pursued mediation. However, she is just not based in financial reality currently, and I just don't see mediation getting to a resolution, even the mediator said he doesn't see how we can break up the household equitably currently so we can both survive.

Where does that leave me currently? Well, in order for me to save myself financially, I need to be the one that files first, and puts motions in place to protect myself before she does. Part of that had been my discussion with L previously, that if I get an apartment, he can take the lease and use that to show expense that I need to have to provide for myself and my d8.

Why would I do this? Protection for myself and d8, pursuing my goals of getting closer to work, and to begin to move my emotional state back towards center.

Note that in the above reply, I am not really mentioning what I think, or know, that WAW wants. Although I struggle with the fact that I 'feel' that I should be protecting my W and Family, she has decided she wants out.

As an aside, the WAW will get what she wants, me out of her daily life, but it will not be in the WAY that she wants. She will then be handed a bit of reality as well, and will need to do what she can to provide for herself and d8. I do not say this as spiteful, but it will be what happens.

I understand that she is kind of cake eating currently, as I continue to pay for everything, but I have noticed that as I continue to do so, she becomes less and less caring about my feelings and my sitch, and eventually will start EA or PA while I continue to do so. I need to be out of this sitch by then.

At this point, I am kind of backed into a corner, so not many things I can do other than be ahead of her on the financial front.

For my d8, we have talked about counseling, and both agree it will likely be needed, we don't have one yet, but I have my IC meeting Thursday and will be asking him for recommendations.

Neither of us are church going people, and I don't say that to offend anyone, but just the way we are. I have become spiritual this past year, but not in a religious context, but I will be using every avenue for my d8, and so will my WAW.

[iwantittowork]

Today was one of the hardest days in my life, when you think you have been through the hardest days, more seem to be around the corner.

Oddly though, as well, is feeling like a small weight has been removed from my shoulders.

I have initiated D proceedings myself with my L filing in about a week and a half.

I will be gone from my own home around the weekend of the 10/18 and renting an apartment. I guess I won't really be calling it my home anymore.

After that, I will start paying the child support figure to my W, and she will be responsible for the mortgages and bills on the house.

I will not be telling her about this until I leave, to ensure I am first to file motions and orders.

This goes against everything I 'feel' I should be doing, but for my own emotional and financial health, I know I must do this now, before things get out of hand at home with my WAW. It's for me, not her. In the end, she will get what she wants, just not in the way that she expected.

I am hurting thinking about what my d8 will be going through in the coming weeks, and preparing to help her with that is #1 priority as well.

[Changes]

Iw..I feel for you. I am just a few steps behind you on the D train. It makes me feel a sick to my stomach that I am having to file against my WAW in secret. But with what is going on I couldnt just let it sit in her court any longer. Good luck to you in the next week. I hope you can get to that peace of mind that what you are doing is the right thing for your D and you.

[BigJohn]

For 9 years now, I have commuted 3+ hours a day to support my family, as well as working 10-12 hour days. I didn't realize the stress and strain this had on me and our R until the past year or so. As such, one of my goals is to move closer to my work. This means I do not want the marital home, and WAW has also said she does not want the marital home as well, as it will be too big for her without all the family there. That influences a lot on my plans going forward.

IWITW,

First of all, I want you to know that I sympathize greatly with your decision to file for D first. As a survivor of D myself, it was with a heavy heart that I filed first in my sitch. I feel almost as much resentment towards my W for forcing me into filing for D first as I do for her A. It is beyond outrageous how she has treated me and our children during this entire sitch and she will pay a heavy price someday for what she has done. But back to your sitch. You have done the right thing for you and your D8. However, now that you have made your decision, I question the wisdom of your L waiting to file for a week and a half. Frankly, I would file ASAP- don't run the risk of having your W file first and take your momentum away. Once you file, you need to keep that momentum going and stay at least one step or more ahead of your W and her L.

Regarding your position on the family residence, what you said makes sense, so let it go. BTW, don't get down on yourself for busting your a$$ at work for your family. I did the exact same thing and now I've got my W and her marshmellow punk OM making snide comments about my manhood. What a joke. It's a bizarro world our Ws live in.

Investment properties:
These are not rentals, one is a vacant lot, and one is having a house built on it, so essentially 'spec' homes, and right now, nothing but money going out, nothing coming in.

These both sound like problems, although with the vacant lot all you probably have is property taxes to deal with. Any possibility you could quit claim it over to your W in lieu of her taking a chunk of your retirement funds? Just thinking outside the box here. I take it the spec home isn't near work and/or you are upside down on it? Maybe you could work out an agreement with the builder or bank- whoever holds the note on the house- where you could walk away from it with little adverse impact your credit.

Financial Status:
I mentioned that I am the only one at risk her financially, because it is my name, and my name alone on all of the debt, mortgages, etc. She can WAW with no impact to her financially.

From the standpoint of your own credit you are right- if you default on the investment properties for example, you are going to be the one to take the hit on your credit, not her. My point was that- (assuming that Massachusetts isn't too different from California)- she still has a 50% stake in both the community assets and debt regardless of who bought what or ran up debt in either her name or yours.

Why this matters to me currently:
As it stands, she will be the custodial parent, L and everyone have already said I have very little, if any, chance at fighting this, so that puts me in the financial cross hairs. I have seen and read about what can happen if WAW decides to file first, she can put motions in place to force me to pay for everything, including the current marital home mortgage, until a contested D is settled.

I understand that the East Coast is not as progressive as California is when it comes to father's rights. While I appreciate frankness and honesty, I personally don't like people who look at a challenge with a resigned attitude like your L may have. If I were you, I wouldn't want to hear how little my chances of success were at something but rather what I would need to do in order to greatly improve my chances of getting the results I wanted. I have to tell you, your L isn't sounding too impressive right now- is it possible you need to reevaluate whether this person is going to be a strong enough advocate for you? If not, you may want to consider seeking a L in your area who is a specialist in father's rights.

Note that in the above reply, I am not really mentioning what I think, or know, that WAW wants. Although I struggle with the fact that I 'feel' that I should be protecting my W and Family, she has decided she wants out.

Your heart is in the right place. You ARE protecting your family. You need to protect yourself for both your sake as well as for D8's sake. Your W and her issues are secondary now. Even if in your heart of hearts you still hope your W will someday come back to you, how will you be able to help her in the future if you let her destroy you in the present?

As an aside, the WAW will get what she wants, me out of her daily life, but it will not be in the WAY that she wants. She will then be handed a bit of reality as well, and will need to do what she can to provide for herself and d8. I do not say this as spiteful, but it will be what happens.

I understand that she is kind of cake eating currently, as I continue to pay for everything, but I have noticed that as I continue to do so, she becomes less and less caring about my feelings and my sitch, and eventually will start EA or PA while I continue to do so. I need to be out of this sitch by then.

Just continue to operate above board, treat her respectfully and with fairness. Avoid any commentary or R talk with her. You and I both know our sitchs aren't going to end well for our WAWs. Let it play itself out.

Regarding caring less and less for your feelings, I have the same issue with my W- she doesn't give a damn about anything or anyone other than OM. Just last night she commented about how "unfortunate" it was that our kids were going to be "collateral damage" as a result of the D. And you are also right about a potential A and needing to get out before then.

For my d8, we have talked about counseling, and both agree it will likely be needed, we don't have one yet, but I have my IC meeting Thursday and will be asking him for recommendations.

You need to get on top of this. I'd call the school counselor first and work my way out from there. You need to do this for D8's sake. And at the same time it is demonstrative of proactive parenting. Don't let your W take point on this- make this one of your objectives.

Well it's getting late, I have to go for now. Good luck, I'm pulling for you.

[iwantittowork]

Thanks again BJ, just wanted to reply to clarify some things, as they do not transpose to what I was writing well.

I question the wisdom of your L waiting to file for a week and a half. Frankly, I would file ASAP- don't run the risk of having your W file first and take your momentum away. Once you file, you need to keep that momentum going and stay at least one step or more ahead of your W and her L.

Actually, what I SHOULD have written was, he is going to be filing quickly, just waiting for a couple days as I need to pull some assets from retirement so I can get setup in new place, and once he files, my assets will be frozen. What he will be waiting on is the summons, he is going to wait until after the weekend I move out, to ensure that I am ahead of my WAW legally, and that is mostly at my direction, not his.

My WAW is waiting for me to set the next mediation appointment, and given her total lack of motivation to do anything in this sitch, I don't see any signs of her moving to get her own L to try to file first.

I personally don't like people who look at a challenge with a resigned attitude like your L may have.

This is also mostly me, at this point. We send my d8 to private school, and my WAW works at that school, and gets a benefit of lower tuition for doing so. My d8 does very well at this school, and I know that it is in her best interest to stay there, since I will be moving 1 hour away, it just does not make sense to fight this and tear my d8's world even more apart.

However, I know that in the future, if my WAW crashes, or d8 starts to suffer at WAW's home, or anything of the sort, then I WILL fight to get custody. I am ok with that at this time, we will see what will happen of the next few years. I have very clear thoughts on that it may come to pass that I will have to fight legally in the future on this.

The L I have is very aggressive, after interviewing several he is the most aggressive I have found. The other ones I interviewed with I asked them about the others as well, as in the D circle of lawyers, most know the a lot of the others. They even agreed that this one has a bit of a aggressive 'shark' mentality, which I will put in use during this.

Just continue to operate above board, treat her respectfully and with fairness. Avoid any commentary or R talk with her. You and I both know our sitchs aren't going to end well for our WAWs. Let it play itself out.

This I plan to do, I plan on not talking to her about anything but d8, and I am making myself dark as possible in the home until this goes through.

she still has a 50% stake in both the community assets and debt regardless of who bought what or ran up debt in either her name or yours.

This we will find out along the way during proceedings. She has 25k still from inheritance that she considers untouchable, we will see how the financial path works out. I have resolved that finances are secondary to my and d8's emotional security, and I know no matter what happens financially, I'll rebuild myself at some point in the future, as I always have when faced with financial hardships.

[BigJohn]

Actually, what I SHOULD have written was, he is going to be filing quickly, just waiting for a couple days as I need to pull some assets from retirement so I can get setup in new place, and once he files, my assets will be frozen. What he will be waiting on is the summons, he is going to wait until after the weekend I move out, to ensure that I am ahead of my WAW legally, and that is mostly at my direction, not his.

IWITW,

OK, this sounds much better. And I do understand your concern about the automatic restraining orders that come down once you file for D. The only thing I would add is that if you don't have a living trust currently in place and have the time to do so, now might not be a bad time to do that if you can. That was one thing I wasn't able to complete before I had to file.

My WAW is waiting for me to set the next mediation appointment, and given her total lack of motivation to do anything in this sitch, I don't see any signs of her moving to get her own L to try to file first.

I understand- my W is the same way... right now. Just don't make the mistake of allowing your W's current attitude to lull you into complacency. Stay "frosty" and on top of stuff.

This is also mostly me, at this point. We send my d8 to private school, and my WAW works at that school, and gets a benefit of lower tuition for doing so. My d8 does very well at this school, and I know that it is in her best interest to stay there, since I will be moving 1 hour away, it just does not make sense to fight this and tear my d8's world even more apart.

Then your current custody arrangement would seem to be best for D8.

However, I know that in the future, if my WAW crashes, or d8 starts to suffer at WAW's home, or anything of the sort, then I WILL fight to get custody. I am ok with that at this time, we will see what will happen of the next few years. I have very clear thoughts on that it may come to pass that I will have to fight legally in the future on this.

Precisely my point in taking ownership now of things like counseling issues for D8. Besides being the right thing to do for D8 now, you are establishing a foundation from which to challenge your W in the future. What you don't want is to be a Johnny-come-lately type if and when the crap hits the fan in the future with your W.

I have resolved that finances are secondary to my and d8's emotional security, and I know no matter what happens financially, I'll rebuild myself at some point in the future, as I always have when faced with financial hardships.

I'm feeling the same way in my sitch. Sounds like you are doing better. Hang in there.

[iwantittowork]

Thanks again BJ,

I am leaving tomorrow for scheduled trip to Denver I had for mini vacation with friends to watch the Pat's play. I need to try and have fun and not let this weigh me down all weekend.

L is filing today, I won't get Living Trust in place, but it'll have to do.

Talked to my IC about counseling for d8, and he agrees, and he suggested I not have d8 around while moving out, but bring her after to the new place as it may be too much stress to see me moving physically all my stuff out of the house.

I'll probably do that and have my Parents take her for that weekend, then work on finding counselor for d8, as her school has not counselors there being such a small private school.

Sounds like you are doing better. Hang in there.

I don't know about that, but on the one hand, it does really seem like a weight has been lifted, as I make some moves for me, and about me.

I do however, struggle mightily with this and how d8 will be after.

[pitinmygut]

iwant, enjoy your time watching the Pats roll over the broncos!