Hope and heartache

[hopeinwaiting]

I wonder if she even remembers are one good talk now five weeks ago where we agreed to talk once a week on the R? I honestly can't imagine now how we'll ever break through this emotional wall.

It's probably for the best that you are not talking about R right now. Who wants to hear from their H/W that they have no desire to work on M once a week???? Hold off for a while on that. She has to break through that wall, you are on the side that cannot be penetrated.

Now, I'm regretting my decision to sign up D10 for swimming. That means two times a week I'll have to see her when I pickup and drop off D10 from practice as well as having to coordinate some swim meets.

If you took those out of the equation, I would only have to see her maybe once every two weeks.

NO REGRETS. This is for your D10 not for you or your W. Always kids first, right? Just focus on D10 and the joy that she will get from swimming and spending time with you : )

Take care! HIW

[ClingingToHope]

Just got off phone with Dottie. I wish I could afford more of these sessions. I have one left. We went through a phone call I had with W this morning where I could have been a better listener, showed I cared about her feelings even though it was a business/kids call.

I've been so badly wanting her to transition somehow into R talk that I grow silent when it's just about the kids.

I'm feeling refocused. I've been spending a lot of time figuring out how not to see W and I've let bitterness creep in when I am talking to her.

[ClingingToHope]

Boy did I just screw up.

W called to talk about dance lessons for D7. I was so fired up after talking to Dottie this morning about how to really listen to W. But then she starts asking about how to handle Thanksgiving and Christmas and she starts talking about how we should do it in future years.

I told her I didn't want to think about future years. We still haven't filed anything and a month ago she'd agreed to at least talk once a week -- but she never called.

She said she still hasn't changed her mind and didn't want to lead me on and said she's seen a lawyer and the only thing holding her back is that she doesn't have the $1,200 retainer.

She might not have it for four years.

She said she realizes that I'm trying to change all the little things that irritated her but I can't change the one big thing. There's no attraction and she doesn't think she ever loved me. She said she felt this way six months into it.

I told her about the Divorce Remedy book and that there are stages in marriage and misgivings six months in is not unusual, I had them as well. But she can't convince me she never loved me.

I told her I realize why we are where we are, but I will be very disappointed if we don't give it one last shot to work at the marriage? We've worked so hard on everything else. I don't want to move back in, I want to go back to counseling.

She said she felt she was being forced into something. If she said no, I'll keep pushing. If she said maybe, I'll keep pushing, If she says yes, she's just agreeing to make me happy and doesn't believe in it. She said she'll think about it.

Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why can't I be stronger? I know, know, know, know that this will take months. Now, I've probably pushed the clock back to Day 1 and I was already struggling.

I told her I hate being in limboland and she said don't move on. Dottie said this morning only to file for divorce if I want a divorce, not as a tactic. But I don't want to remain married to someone who won't work at the M.

Well, guys, what do I do?

[C-Bart]

You just found out your are human after all. DB sessions tend to give us a sense of power, of hope, of invincibility.

Interesting that she can't come up with a $1,200 retainer. My mantra is if really want something, you will find a way.

Believe nothing that she says but don't let her know that.

[ClingingToHope]

Believe nothing that she says but don't let her know that.

I don't know CBart. I feel as if it's over. I don't think I can take having her have so much power over me. I've been putting so much emphasis on January, hoping that if she can sense my changes she would have this epiphany.

She sounds as if she's moved on and I'm still stuck in something that's over. I don't see why I don't file. Today, right now, I feel like that's the only way to move on for me.

[Coach]

I don't think I can take having her have so much power over me.

Then change your thinking. Describe this power she has over you. How did she get it? Who controls this mighty power?
Who really controls you, your thoughts, actions, and feelings?

She said she felt she was being forced into something. If she said no, I'll keep pushing. If she said maybe, I'll keep pushing, If she says yes, she's just agreeing to make me happy and doesn't believe in it. She said she'll think about it.

So stop pushing. Agree with her, "I understand how you could see that as me pushing. I will stop."

There's no attraction

Make yourself attractive. Confident, taking care of yourself, being a great Dad, being stronger than her emotions and leading your famliy. You can handle it.

If you really listen she will tell you where the keys to her heart are.

[billclay18]

I'm in a similar sitch to yours, but I think you have to move on before you file, if that makes any sense. What I mean is when you get to the point where it really doesn't matter to you, when you've completely let go knowing you are fine either way, then you file. If you aren't there, filing won't help. D is tough, trust me, but tougher when you're still emotionally invested because it's difficult to separate the emotional aspect from the business side of it, but that's what lawyers are for.

Hope that made sense.

[ClingingToHope]

If you really listen she will tell you where the keys to her heart are.

Coach, I'm afraid if I really listen there is nothing left in her heart for me.

I've had a night to think about things and talk to friends who have gone through divorce.

I will not file for divorce. If she wants to break the covenant we made then she has to do that. What I'm thinking of doing -- and I made some calls yesterday -- is to propose to her that we negotiate our own separation agreement and then give it to a single lawyer to file. The total cost would be about $1,500 and we could be divorced in three to four months.

We already agree on child visitation stuff. Child support in Illinois is cut-and-dried. She agreed to keep me on her insurance another year. We both want to sell the house -- although we may take a loss, not a profit, on it.

She makes more than me -- at least now -- I have a better chance for career advancement, so there's no issue of spousal support.

It comes down to debt and assets. She'd have to pay me for a portion of her car -- I borrowed from my 401(k) to pay it off last year. And she'd have to agree to take a fair share of the credit card debt she ran up that I'm paying for.

If we hit an impasse then we see a mediator at $90 an hour.

Basically, she's saying the ONLY reason she hasn't filed is because of money. I want to give her the option of a low cost divorce so she can move on, if that's what she truly wants.

I don't want to exist in limboland anymore. I'd been putting a lot of emotional eggs in the January basket. She originally said she wouldn't file until then because she wanted to get on her prepaid legal plan. She made it clear yesterday that our M is over and I believe her now.

In that respect yesterday was a step forward. My best hope now is that someday she realizes she did love me. I'll settle for that. I do not believe her assertion that she never loved me. That's just the emotional brick wall she's built.

When I woke up this morning, it was a painful realization, but at least a clear direction. I am a single father who loves his kids and his family, but who needs to move on and forward. I love the DBing concept, but sometimes it feels like you are sitting on your hands waiting for someone else to decide your life. I want to be free to go to dinner with someone I'm attracted to or go see a movie or just lay on the couch and watch a movie with.

I had unrealistic expectations for my W and my M. This M is my greatest failing. I believed in happily ever after. I didn't know and wasn't prepared for it being such hard work.

These past five months, I've learned a lot. I feel, finally at age 40, I'm ready to have an adult relationship. I want to be able to pursue that and I don't feel I can unless the D action has begun.

Does that make sense?

[billclay18]

So what is the visitation agreement? If I remember reading correctly, she works long hours and you are the primary caregiver. What visitation did you give her? Please don't tell me you agreed to anything less than 50/50. If you do have 50/50, she earning the higher income should pay you child support.

[ClingingToHope]

We've been splitting weekends and they stay at my house every Wednesday night. This week, for the second time since I moved into my apartment, she asked if I could take them Thursday as well so she could catch up at work. I don't have any special plans on Thursday so I said yes.

Because my job is flexible I'm the one who goes home every day to see the kids get off the bus. When the after-school sitter gets there I head back to work.

I added it up in my head. The girls will stay at my apartment over night at least 135 days a year -- including summer vacations -- and with the after-school stuff, I'll see them at least 280.

That's pretty good.

We agreed early on that the girls would stay together and my W would be the primary home. Her self worth is really tied into the girls. She feels her job detracts from her ability to be a good mother. I could fight -- and people have told me I should -- for custody, but I feel that would be counterproductive. Fights like that cause long-term divisions and kids usually get caught in the middle.

I'll be able to see them a lot and then when they are older, they can make their own decisions.

The house hamstrings everything. Until it's sold and the W can find a smaller place, I feel I have to be generous so she doesn't get foreclosed upon.

Both of the friends I talked to last night used mediators and made their own settlements. They said it smoothed the process, saved thousands of dollars and there were no long-term bitter feelings afterward.