so does this all boil down to unrealistic expectations on both parts?
As for JonF putting investing more time & energy into his kids and why he didn't do that before and if it was possible to do it before. It was physically possible, however the reason for that action after the bomb, the bomb itself was the catalyst which got him into that action. Without that, there was no reason to change, human nature dictates we don't normally change what we do if it's comfortable & commonplace, we usually only change when we have to change, to adapt to something new. Change just for change sake usually doesn't happen much - I could be wrong but that seems to be it.
So we fix our marital problems by no longer have expectations, is this the answer - so we go back to unconditional love but it's unconditional love with alot of "but's" ;-)
"...I'll love you unconditionally but I can't be with you if you're having a physical & emotional affair with someone else", unconditional still sounds conditional to me. Is it bad to have ocnditions? Doesn't respect require boundaries? Sounds like conditions? Can you love without respect? Sounds like more conditions. Don't we have expectations & conditions with friends outside of our marriages? - that's how we trust them, we know we can trust them and have good times with them otherwise we probably wouldn't be friends with them or be close with them.
@robx: So we fix our marital problems by no longer have expectations, is this the answer - so we go back to unconditional love but it's unconditional love with alot of "but's" ;-)
No, I'm starting to think it's closer to what I wrote above -- namely, that expectations need to be defined at the outset and then reassessed and redefined as the marriage and the individuals in the marriage evolve:
So what does that mean here? It means, among other things IMO, that there needs to be clearly defined discussions of couples' expectations before marriage and, probably, that married couples need to make recurring discussions of expectations (since these presumably evolve as one's status, age, living situation evolves) throughout the marriage.
This ought to be common-sense -- we do it in business all the time, don't we? Let's get the team together for a meeting and see where we're at on the McGillicutty Account.
But we seem -- societally, I mean -- to believe somehow that marriage is supposed to be ... self-sustaining.
...What's needed, perhaps, is less romance and more board-of-directors meetings....
There's no reason -- except for our cultural expectations/preconcceptions -- that we can't have really romantic board-of-director's meetings.
No, it's this bizarro-world idea that love-n-marriage should just kind of magically evolve and persist without any discussion or planning or negotiation that's the epic fail. I suspect.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
@Kettricken: it's thisbizarro-world idea that love-n-marriage should just kind of magically evolve and persist without any discussion or planning or negotiation that's the epic fail. I suspect.
Indeed it's probably what the old-timers referred to as "tending the garden."
(Rolls back over on dogbed).
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
There's no reason -- except for our cultural expectations/preconcceptions -- that we can't have really romantic board-of-director's meetings.
No, it's this bizarro-world idea that love-n-marriage should just kind of magically evolve and persist without any discussion or planning or negotiation that's the epic fail. I suspect.
Thank you, Hollywood, Lifetime Channel and ... Petrarch. Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Sorry to have not answered the question pages ago, but I am away on my 30th aniiversary holiday, and didn't look at the computer all day. I'm only here now because after H and I both passed out after dinner from too much sun (we're at the beach) and drink ( we got the romantic weekend package with champagne), I woke up first, and am amusing myself in the hotel business center trying to catch up with all of you.
The weekend I referred to for fixing a marriage, particularly one plagued by the married-singles lifestyle, is a Retrouvaille weekend.
I agree with all the above analysis, but as I was lying on the beach, I was thinking of Mrs. SP and what she did last night. It doesn't bother me, mind you, but I know it bothers her. And I am worrying about this woman who commits hari-kari willy-nilly. She just keeps doing it! In my estimation, she is not alright with sex, and she is being advised by her friend Samantha from Sex in the City. Samantha is completely in the dark that there even are women who don't have a healthy appetite for sex. So she is coaching her protege on distracting herself with what she considers exciting sexual escapades. But to Mrs SP, these are loathsome! And she will react. So yes, some nameless guy got some attention that SP would have enjoyed sometime in the past 4 years, and he is oblivious to what a feat that was. But to Mrs. SP this is akin to slashing her wrists.
Very interesting, bringing SITC's Samantha into play.
WAW is an obvious Miranda but wishes she were a Samantha.
Though she was pretty pleased with herself about Signore Schmuckatelli, despite her unhappiness with having had to lie about it. She digs that she was bold. Which I can understand.
Last time I mentioned Retrouvaille, the response was, "Well, I could be open to discussing that at some point, but not until we've had a separation." When the most recent session was scheduled, well....there was a trip to be taken, so.....
Oh well.
"Love is temporary insanity, curable by marriage." -- Ambrose Bierce
