Over the Shock and GALing 6

[antlers]

You are assuming you are dealing with a well adjusted, reasonable "SHE." And a WAS is not any of those things. They are illogical, emotionally driven creatures. Not "thought" driven, "feel" driven. They go with what they feel.


All the questions you are asking above are valid. It's just that the questions assume your W is reasonable and can see through her fog to notice what WE all know is obvious.

Well how did WE get so smart?

GIMA ~~~ don't make me come over there!

You guys are referring to this woman like she has some sort of deficiency. Come on! Just b/c WE don't agree or see her POV does not mean she has some FLAW or is in some altered state which precludes her from thinking things through.

Go LSU
Greek

I understand my wife's point of view. I understand my wife feels the way she does.

I also understand GIMA's point of view. I understand he feels the way he does.

[antlers]

Actually, mine is pretty close. H is so wounded. The main difference is that your W isn't trying to torture you by leading you on and rubbing her love affair and fabulous post separation achievements in your face...

Something to be grateful for?

My wife is very wounded by me...she says the scars I left will last a lifetime. She does tell me how happy she is now, how happy her co-workers think she is now, and how happy our kids think she is now.

I'm sorry. I hope she doesn't go out of her way to do this...eventually, it is you who will say "enough".

She doesn't go out of her way to rub it in my face. It just comes up whenever we talk about our situation. I want to be a living example of Coach's Stockdale Principle.

ps - I'm sorry for you too!

[Greek]

I understand my wife's point of view. I understand my wife feels the way she does.

I also understand GIMA's point of view. I understand he feels the way he does.

Sort yourself out on that one, though, b/c it matters how you go forward. Are you going to deal with your wife as if she is a person who is hurt, angry, confused, lost - whatever you understand about her particular sitch to be- and show her compassion? Or are you going to move forward dealing with her as somone who is in a temporary mental state that precludes her from making reasonable decisions whereby her decisions are made based on flawed or deficient mental capacity?

It's imporatant. Coach told me that the key to what he did to improve our
R while we were separated was to have and show compassion to me. Rather than say, "Wow - 'O' is really in a fog, not thinking straight, messed up, needs to snap out of this...", he proceeded with "Wow - "O" has reasons and feelings for what she says and does" and he based his moves on the latter.

You know more about this than me, that's for sure. I'm just chiming in as someone whose been on the other team. But I'm on your side, too

Go LSU.
Greek

[antlers]

I understand my wife's point of view. I understand my wife feels the way she does.

I also understand GIMA's point of view. I understand he feels the way he does.

Sort yourself out on that one, though, b/c it matters how you go forward. Are you going to deal with your wife as if she is a person who is hurt, angry, confused, lost - whatever you understand about her particular sitch to be- and show her compassion? Or are you going to move forward dealing with her as somone who is in a temporary mental state that precludes her from making reasonable decisions whereby her decisions are made based on flawed or deficient mental capacity?

It's imporatant. Coach told me that the key to what he did to improve our
R while we were separated was to have and show compassion to me. Rather than say, "Wow - 'O' is really in a fog, not thinking straight, messed up, needs to snap out of this...", he proceeded with "Wow - "O" has reasons and feelings for what she says and does" and he based his moves on the latter.

You know more about this than me, that's for sure. I'm just chiming in as someone whose been on the other team. But I'm on your side, too

Go LSU.
Greek

Greek, I've dealt with her all along as if she is a person who is hurt, angry, confused, lost, etc. She was forced to walk on eggshells for many years. I've shown her compassion the entire separation. My intentions are to move forward dealing with her as I have done. I might add though that the way I've dealt with her all along has not reconciled our marriage, and it has not stopped her from filing for divorce, which she did do 2 days ago.

I agree that compassion is the best path to take. I know she has reasons and feelings for what she says and does. But, having compassion doesn't mean letting someone walk all over you.


I appreciate you for being here and responding. Your input is very valuable.

[Greek]

Do not let anyone walk on you. I don't advocate ever standing still while someone hurts you. Get out of the way! Absolutely. You can be compassionate and love WITH boundaries. And you are developing that skill. Don't give up. Even if she keeps walking away, Ant...you are learning a loving and decent way to deal with all of your brothers and sisters.

Hang IN there!
Greek

[Kettricken]

I understand where you're coming from Greek. It's a bit insulting to hear the substance of "WAWs must all be unhinged", repeatedly.

I think the goal of pointing out the WAWs less-than-stellar mental processes in cases like Thinker and Antlers is to warn that they seem to be (emotionally, if not logically) giving the adjudication on their worthiness as men/husbands/lovers into the hands of women who are not doing their most spectacular objective thinking (for what may be very valid reasons, but still).

It hurts me to see anyone abdicate authority over their own self-esteem. For emotional, empathic reasons, and also because I truly believe that any relationship NOT based on healthy self-love and self-acceptance is going to wind up twisted in all sorts of very subtle yet damaging ways (covert contracts, projection, etc.)

Like your sig line .... we're all muddling through this together.

[givingitmyall]

Greek,

That hurts - the LSU part.

Ok, I am NOT suggesting there is something deficient with her or a WAS (and note I said WAS and not WAW). What I am inartfully trying to say is that it appears that a WAS is guided by what they feel, their emotions, more than a well thought out plan. That's not to say the WAS does not have a plan. My perception is just that the WAS may be influenced more than most by emotion.

Now, that said, I am not discounting the LBS' role in getting the M to where it is. I am also not suggesting the WAS does not have reason to feel the way they do.

So, if I gave the impression the WAS is flawed somehow, that was not my intent.

It seems to me the dynamic b/wthe logical spouse and emotional spouse changes one to the other throughout this process.

[givingitmyall]

Guys,

I whole heartedly agree with Greek. The shortcomings in the LBS helped create the problem the WAS believes is unfixable (maybe it is, maybe it isn't). So, the LBS has to make changes in areas they know they should.

Now, once the LBS makes those changes, the WAS may come back, may not.

But, and this is my original point, when the WAS says things like "you will never change," this seems to me to be emotionally based. Likely the result of a long time of frustration (valid or not). And it would seem it is common, some may say in the majority of cases, that the WAS refuses to acknowledge, accept or trust that those changes are for real while, at the same time, rush out the door. I understand the hesitancy not to trust the LBS, but I don't understand instances where the WAS is in a hurry to move to D.

[Greek]

But, and this is my original point, when the WAS says things like "you will never change," this seems to me to be emotionally based. Likely the result of a long time of frustration (valid or not). And it would seem it is common, some may say in the majority of cases, that the WAS refuses to acknowledge, accept or trust that those changes are for real while, at the same time, rush out the door. I understand the hesitancy not to trust the LBS, but I don't understand instances where the WAS is in a hurry to move to D.

L. S. U. OK, got that out of the way (GIMA)

WAS and "you will never change." Yep, we say it. I said it. And I thought I was right. So what is that? Well, we, like the LBS, suffer from a bit of hopelessness. Remember that WAS has been turning this dirt over in his/her mind a bit longer than the LBS is aware of. A mistake we WAS make is that b/c our awareness is so keen that the M is in deep trouble, we assume the STBLBS knows it, too. And on some level, the LBS MUST! But the WAS is mobilized and if there is OP - motivated.

But yeah - saying someone will never change is in error. I thought it about Coach. That is why, when I saw
C H A N G E .... it stopped me in my tracks. It took awhile to believe it, trust it, and now I'm working on depending on it. But it's a big deal for a WAS to accept that the change CAN happen, and IS happening.

Greek

[givingitmyall]

Dam$ DAWGS!! Needed to vent that.

OK, I definitely see your point, and I made a generalization about the WAS that was incomplete and unfair. Remeber, my POV is poisoned by my experience.

Maybe I just read a lot of sitch's where the WAS is still angry/hurt and that is the part that comes through in the posts.

In any event, I always learn something from your posts, and tonight is no exception.

So, question for you. How did your's and Coach's situation evolve into working on the M? I had a big step for me tonight and, rather than take more of Thinker's thread, I posted about that on my thread. Was a perfect opportunity for my W to jump into a discussion on the R, but no dice.