Keep Your Hands Offa My Mojo

[Coach]

If you accepted each other unconditionally, the marriage wouldn't have seemed so bad but you couldn't accept the way he was and he couldn't accept the way you were - you both realized that change on both your parts was required.

And it wasn't me trying to change her to get what I needed or wanted. I changed for the better for myself. "Love your neighbor as yourself."

This is really so simple but so hard.

[JayMan]

I changed for the better for myself.

And, THAT, friends and neighbors, is what it all boils down to.

[Greek]

@Greek: I'm just going to have to gulp and say this. You sound Cold.

I am cold. Right now I'm colder than a well-digger's arse.

Your wife is in life altering pain. She shows this to you. You come back with 'she's on the crazy train.'

You mean the way I was? When I was told, "Just get over it"? "Too little, too late"? "I have no feelings for you"?

Oh, come one, ignore 100% of what the WAS says, right? It's spew, right?

So why is the rule any different just because the content changes?

I don't advocate ignoring anything your wife says. It all has value as you discern and decipher.

And incidentally "crazy train" is her construction -- she's the one who said, "Okay, I'm getting off the crazy train now." A week ago.

My bad. I got that confused with 'bat sh!t crazy'.

Her fears are:

Today. These are today's fears. They weren't yesterday's. They weren't 6 months' ago's. They weren't D-Day's. They're today's. How do I know they won't change tomorrow?

Especially when I get this (unresponded to, btw) in the in-box yesterday: In fact I plan to find someone to bl*w tonight, and I have just enough anger in me to bl*w it right off.

I never said she doesn't behave badly.

That's why we like it so much when the father of our children cheer us on in this dept.

Which I've done consistently, to the point of repeatedly annoying @Puppy Dog Tails for rescuing.

I would say your wife has not enjoyed unconditional love in her life. Wonder if she'll get it now?

She had it. This from 2 weeks post-Bomb: I know no one will ever love me like you did. I'm under no illusions about what I'm leaving behind. But love isn't enough for me anymore.

Yet in April and in May, during the up-to-that-point worst of it, I told her, "I love you. In spite of everything that's happened, I love you. And you can't take that away from me. You can take the marriage -- you can take that. But you can't take what I feel."

Remember that? And what was the response here? Pursuing! Rescuing! Backsliding!

She's had unconditional all along.

All I can say to that SP is that if she had it, she didn't know it. And that's kinda the rub, isn't it.

So now the answer is, "No." Conditional love? Maybe. But not until she shows me something. Something besides contempt, at any rate.

How about if she showed you what her greatest fears - past and present are - showed you that she is vulnerable to your slings and arrows, as well - showed you that it matters to her, you matter to her - what you think, say, do? Is that good for anything?

she's been pulling the financial wagon in your family, and even THAT won't be honored.

You have been reading these threads, haven't you? At what point has ANYTHING she did not been honored to her? At no point.

SAYS YOU! You have been listening to her, haven't you??? Just b/c YOU think you have been .... honoring ... her contributions to the M, does not mean it resonated with her. Or that she even knew it. Or that anyone knew it. Besides you.

It's her turn now. She can GAL. She can 180. She can become the person only a fool would leave.

At this point, though, it's the same old story. She's mellow, she wigs out; she wigs out, she attacks. Like a sine wave -- up and down, up and down.

She's heavy lifting. And that doesn't always look graceful or even dignified, and certainly not measured and composed. No matter how this feels or the chaos it represents, the up and down is far and away better than 'don't make waves so this sh!t doesn't splash up in my face.' All you see is 'bat sh!t' and wigging out. Too bad. Much more there.

Greek

[orangedog]

This stuff is good. O'dog was starting to nod off during "Theory of Marriage Dynamics 601".

If either one of you were done then you wouldn't care. There is a lot more that needs to come out. It hasn't been pretty. It's not going to be pretty. Let it flow.

[Greek]

Today. These are today's fears. They weren't yesterday's. They weren't 6 months' ago's. They weren't D-Day's. They're today's. How do I know they won't change tomorrow?

These are TODAY'S manifestations of deeply rooted fears - of not being good enough, of not being loved, of being abandoned, of making a mistake and losing favor. If you think D-Day didn't involve Fear, SP, you are dead wrong.

Greek

[Lotus]

I went to Disney World for 24 hours, and look at all I missed! Wow, SP! Your wife is a handful! How did you handle her all of these years? She and her friend are not a good coupling. The friend is free and easy about sex; fine for her, but your wife can't take the pressure. I suggest you buy two pairs of boxing gloves and have it out. After that you can take a tumble in the hay!

[Dia]

There is a lot more that needs to come out. It hasn't been pretty. It's not going to be pretty. Let it flow.

Agreed.

The spice must flow.

[Greek]

The spice must flow.

Love this!

Cheers.
Greek

[Kettricken]

wisdom teeth pulled vicodin disclaimer

I don't see anything fundamentally incompatible between love-and-compassion and calling bat-sh*t-crazy, bat-sh*t-crazy. (in my house we call this Bronze Swimming Certificate behavior, but that's an obscure britcom reference). There can be a liberation to calling a spade a spade, at least to yourself and your support system. As long as you don't ensconce yourself on the moral high ground and reduce WAS to nothing *more* than Bronze Swimming Certificate.

Dunno. I don't think it means nothing when your spouse reveals deep wounds to you; I think it means a lot. Ultimately, though, how can that be enough? I certainly wouldn't want to go forward without some sense that they were gritting through and trying to access their inner strength, too, as well as their inner pain. Honesty, even if brutal, can be a good thing to contribute to a relationship, but if that's all you're bringing emotionally .... that's just not good enough.

Would I shut the door? Don't think so. But I don't know that I'd go out into the yard and drag (in this case) her twitching near-corpse onto the rug to keep bleeding there either. She's just not the only one hurting here, and frankly, unless she can articulate that in a big-girl way -- NOT just with reference to how guilty it makes her feel -- she's not ready to come back.

IMHO. Even less reliable than usual.

[Lotus]

Thing is, as women, we don't call it bat-sh*t crazy; we call it "highly emotional".