Do not blame yourself for being independent, Jackie. He was not there for you when you needed him and you had to learn to cope on your own. If men never left needy women, half the threads in this BB would be gone. Your actions may have contributed to tangle his mental mess, but they neither caused it nor can they be used to justify it.
You will need to let your H know that you need him, but I do not think this is the right time. He needs to learn what he wants first, and miss you. Then, you can show your need. Right now it would only add another layer of guilt to his mental cake (guilt fudge, anyone?).
As to your kids, the ideal thing would be to sit both of you with them and calmly tell them that Dad is going through a tough time and needs to go away for a while to think things over. Reassure them clearly that you both love them dearly and will always be there for them. That nothing of this is their fault and you will always be their father and mother. Make them understand that things will change as little as possible for them.
If your H does not want to do that (and be warned, mine did not), you will have to tell them yourself. Do not lie but do not blame your H or show bitterness: they would feel pressured to chose between you two.
And remember, your children will reflect YOU. If you are calm, collected and 'happy' they will be relatively content. If they see you in pieces, they will be scared and nervous.
A tall order, is it not? But I have faith you can and will do it. Even if it is bacause you must
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Getting caught up with you. What good advice you are getting! (((((Jackie))))) This is tough and hurts like crazy, but you are doing very well.
Just a few thoughts:
Quoting you:
Quote: He feels empty inside..... I asked him what he wanted out of this separation, he pointed to his chest and said I want to discover what is inside me, what I am.
This jumped out at me again, Jackie. I think this is really important. Bring this to mind when you have rougher days and begin wondering what he's doing. In this statement, your H's pain and confusion seem crystal clear. In a way, he seems almost vulnerable. (I'm not defending his way of dealing with this confusion, or saying that the pain his actions are causing you is justified in any way.) During this ordeal, there have been times when I have seen my H in a different way - as lost, hurting, vulnerable and afraid. (I feel sure this was God showing me another view of my H.) This would alternate with seeing him as completely selfish, etc. Maybe I'm way off base, but the statement your H made just really hit me the same way.
Maybe taking what he said for the truth will help some too. Look at this time as a chance for him to think through some things and leave it at that.
I didn't mean to be harsh when I said that about trying not to think that this is the beginning of the end. I'm sorry if that felt like a 2x4. I know that it does feel like everything is on its way to being over. And that is terribly hard, but to think along those lines and look way down the road at what life could be like without your H can affect how you interact with him/respond to him. RJ is always reminding me to act as if, and warning me that my negative thoughts can subtally (sp? - that doesn't look right. Good grief - I cannot spell! ) affect the way I act around my H, which can affect the way he responds to me, etc. I'm not saying you should be skipping along like everything is fine. You have to deal with the pain/anger/fear and all the other emotions that are swirling around. I guess to just try and take the focus off what may happen, see this as time for your H to think instead of as the beginning of the end of your M, and act as if you will be/are fine.
One of my female friends who was a WAS about 12 years ago -she didn't leave, but had an EA and considered D, has told me over and over through all this that right now my H needs for me to be strong, because he is confused and hurting. That in a M, there are times when one or the other of you has to be strong when the other one can't be, and that now it is my turn. This helped me some, so I wanted to share it with you.
Quoting KAW:
Quote: It is going to take alot of effort to remain lovingly detached and stay on the sidelines while your H grasps desperately at every unsupported notion as why he is bogged down and can't pull himself out of it.
This is exactly it! Said so eloquently.
I agree with the others that have said that the S may just very well be a good thing. I think in alot of cases it allows the "fog" (I can think of uglier terms for what our H's are wading through, but trying to watch myself )lift a little so the WAS can feel what it's like to physically be away from their family. It also seems to help them see somewhat that the empty feeling is still there - it goes with them. This seems to help them begin to realize that you are not the source for their unhappiness.
Quote: I think I am an easy scapegoat for what's wrong in his life.
Another benefit of the S is that it moves you a little bit out of the range of fire, and off the eggshells.
Quoting you again:
Quote: I need to work on some goals and get myself going again and out of these dumps.
You've got it, and I have faith that you can do this.
Hang in there - you are doing a terrific job. Know you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. ((((((Jackie)))))
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
I agree with optimist Jackie. I think it is in the best interest of the children that you (and your H) have a talk with them BEFORE the trip.
My W and I never had a talk with Solomon. I tried to explain things the best that I could to a 5 year old. I didnt think that W would be able to do that. A few weeks ago, he must have heard the word "Divorce" at school. He came home and got pretty upset with my XW that we were getting a D. I had explained everything to him before this, but never used the D word.
The little bit of pain that it will cause in the beginning, will be much less than it would be if you let them figure it out on their own.
Just my .02.
(((((Jackie)))))
FLoyd The grass is always GREENER over the septic tank.
Jackie, don't beat yourself up with trying a different approach. You tried a 180 and it didn't work. That's all and it doesn't mean the theory is invalid either. It just means a different approach will be needed. One of the reasons, it didn't work is because the message was conveyed with words. If he is convinced is not needed by the family, telling him is not going to change his mind.
What action oriented 180's will show him that he is genuinely needed? This is not an easy one to execute as it requires seizing times only when the oppurtunity presents itself. Any more frequent than that and it will come off as being phony. Another words, when H's help can really be of assistance, like with an emergency situation with the kids or the home, don't hesitate to reach out and ask him for help.
Otherwise, he is gonna have to come to terms with his misconceptions on his own...
We never really had a talk with my kids - my husband told them when I was gone one day that mommy and daddy weren't getting along very well right now and since we have 2 houses (one is on the market - built our dream house this past winter) that he is going to sleep in one amd me in the other for awhile. But what is funny is my H has a VERY hard time telling anyone that we are separated...I don't he likes the word very well. When he was moving into the other house, I said you need to let our friend and real estate agent know that you will be in the house now(was empty) and he said what should I tell her...I said how about the truth????? It is as if he thinks if the words are said, it feels more real, instead of just thinking of it as "time out", which is what I think he considers it.
Oh well....
I just read this last sentence and I could barely understand it..hope you can...
Take care Jackie....are you sure you can't get your Mom or another adult to go to Disney with you? I think you do need 2 adults to handle 2 kids at the parks...JMHO.
HI..been away for awhile...like most have said..let him go..but do keep that backdoor open..my h said almost the same things..he needed to find himself..it is a great relief not to be on those eggshells..believe me. Keep yourself happy, it will reflect on the kids...stay positive that things can change..but it is almost a year for me and h and I are just becoming more comfortable with each other..no r talks, but we have had a year apart to reflect and discover a whole new us...I am still hoping for the outcome that most of us here want..but who knows..I do know that this time apart has been good for us to sort through the hurt junk that partly got us here...and I must say it is great...don't take this as me saying I am so happy to be s, ot that I want this to go on forever, or that this is the way all s couples are going to be...but for me it has been an awakening to many things in my life that I need to change, and I feel I have become a better person becasue of it.
Hey guys--thanks for all the kinds thoughts and words of wisdom. Feeling a bit low, just tired and perplexed by the whole situation. H was horrible while my Ps were here. Hardly making conversation with them, always retreating to a different room. Bordering on rude. Also that way when we went to State College for the night. These are our friends who know the situation and he would barely speak. On the way home S7 got in trouble for not acknowledging when his brother spoke to him. I wanted to scream, look in the mirror!
After freezing through the first half of the PSU game, H left during the 4th quarter (when it was nice and sunny). Now, we have been going to PSU games for 17 years and never did we leave early or give up. He just left, I stayed with my parents, hoping they would win just to spite him, if not anything else, but met him downtown later. Just thought it highlighted everything going on in him--giving up, seeing the worst in every possible situation, not enjoying the camardire of just being in the stadium.
I haven't been pressing him. I try to make conversation, but get one word answers. Then he accusmes me of not saying what is on my mind and being fearful to talk to him.
He said tonight we need to talk about Disney. Then in the same breath he tells S4 and I we should go get a new tv for the playroom. Now why spend all that money if he is leaving and our budget is gonig to be streched tight.
I don't want him to leave, but I don't know how much I can live with this atmoshpere in the house. It is almost like he enjoys being miserable. He came home tonight, joked with the boys, when I walked in the kitchen, he turned, looked at me, and in the Eeyore type voice, said Oh, Hi.
I agree with what is being said about a S, a "time out". I think he has a huge guilt, once he does it, everyone will know. His image he has of himself and what others have of him, in his mind, will be shattered.
I'm finding it fairly easy to be detached, as I don't know if I have the energy to keep giving anymore. For how long can you hear that someone doesn't have "husband" feelings for you?
Jackie, I'm going on a year of hearing that my H doesn't have husband feelings for me. Oddly, he spends a lot of time with me and seems to think I'm attractive. Obviously there is more going on with my H than our R being troubled. I think he is troubled.
My H did the same thing when he came over (voluntarily) to spend labor day with my family. He skulked at the edges, went away to other rooms, watched television with the little kids and even said one of the rudest things he has said to me in a long time. I wanted to punch him. He doesn't talk to any of our friends about what is going on, he doesn't act like he wants to confide, but he gets mad that they ask me what's going on and don't ask him.
I think it's a combination of guilt and depression and poopy-alien-thinking. Sounds like your H has a dose of that too.
If you don't think you should be buying a new television, don't let it happen. My H went on a buying frenzy when he left. Sure I made out like a bandit, but I had to make him stop, because it wasn't good for his finances or my ego.
Of course it's easier to DB with someone you are in contact with, but I think the pressure will be off of both of you once he finally moves. In the meantime, makes some plans that don't include him. Give yourself some breathing room. Take care, z
(guilt fudge, anyone?).
) affect the way I act around my H, which can affect the way he responds to me, etc. I'm not saying you should be skipping along like everything is fine. You have to deal with the pain/anger/fear and all the other emotions that are swirling around. I guess to just try and take the focus off what may happen, see this as time for your H to think instead of as the beginning of the end of your M, and act as if you will be/are fine.
