Whoa is all I could spell while on the phone w/my daughter.
I just read about the Stosny teachings. I found his description of "value" interesting, in re: leave your partner if they don't value your feelings.
It kinds of reminds me of SP and his W right now. Or me and my freakin' H.
OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK I told you you sucked while "in it," but it really didn't, so WTH have I done NOW? I don't know how to come back, but kind of dig being "away."
That's a lot beyond the "whoa!"
But how comfortable can you be living in limbo, no matter how good the pinot noir or chiraz is, it's still limbo.
My week has been filled w/thought provoking passages on my private "journal." It's been 18-months POST BOMB. I started DB'ing 10 months ago. I have read about "the math" (1 month per year to get past this crap). OK, we've been married 13 years. So, he has until Jan 1 to get his sh*t together, and I think I'll have it in me to tell him so by then.
I see the fog lifting. I feel the man coming back.
Hope it's not too late by then. I'm tired. Or, maybe (like SP) tired of being challenged (lack of response is a challenge, as well).
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
My week has been filled w/thought provoking passages on my private "journal." It's been 18-months POST BOMB. I started DB'ing 10 months ago. I have read about "the math" (1 month per year to get past this crap). OK, we've been married 13 years. So, he has until Jan 1 to get his sh*t together, and I think I'll have it in me to tell him so by then.
I see the fog lifting. I feel the man coming back.
Hope it's not too late by then. I'm tired. Or, maybe (like SP) tired of being challenged (lack of response is a challenge, as well).
so based on how many years you've been together, you count how many months to give someone to smarten up. In your case 13 years, equals 13 months, interesting, what's the logic behind this?
What's sad or unfortunate, is that time is limited, no one knows how long they will live, choosing to waste time in limbo is really disrespectful, what if after waiting for so long, the LBS in one of these situations kicks the bucket, the WAS spent all that time waffling back & forth instead of being mature enough to move in the path of reconciliation or divorce. At least when a decision is made, even when it's the answer that we don't want to hear, it is a step in a direction other than lingering in limbo.
1. She is obviously desperate. For something or about something. Or both.
To what extent should I rely upon evaluations made (declared?) while the Crazy Train is taking on water at Desperation Gulch?
2. She's extremely jealous. A first. Never saw that before, ever.
To what extent should I exacerbate that jealously by continuing to dally with Miss Someone?
3. Miss Someone -- she's Miss Someone. She's some Someone WAW told me to "got out and find." She's a fine Someone. A nice, light Romance. No past. No future. No obligations. No expectations.
Do I want to give that up, happy-making as it is right now, against the possibility that WAW will get off the Crazy Train immediately after?
4. Feelings.
What do I feel about/for WAW right now? More about than for. Anger. Resentment. Befuddlement. Irritation. Boredom. Anger.
"Speak when angry and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret." Ambrose Bierce said that. So what do I make of "decide when angry...."
If I decide to tell WAW to f*ck off, that's almost certainly The End. If I decide to tell WAW "come home," and she remains WAW Herself -- as she certainly seems to be right now -- all this progress is squandered.
5. Ownership.
WAW has, in a loosey-goosey way, taken ownership of some things. Signore, for example. Yet I'm the one "wrecking the home" and destroying the kids' "hopes and dreams."
To what extent do I credit her with any growth when she's trying to push Ground Zero onto my side of the balance sheet?
6. Petard, hoist-by-own-ship
As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Chickens, home to roost. SP, I don't want you. SP, go find someone new. SP, if it happens that we get involved with someone while we're separated [notice the clever use of future subjective while she's banging Signore], that will be okay -- no harm, no foul. SP, I have no feelings for you as a man. SP..... Hey! Wait! What do you think you're doing, doing what I told you to do?
To what extent do I consider this "return" sincere and not (a) driven by jealousy or (b) driven by fear or uncertainty or (c) driven by her abandonment by Signore? What assurance is there that this is an "actual" return and not just a 7th-inning stretch, and once she's recalibrated we're back to the races?
7. Work, doing The
Apparently I'm a piece of sh*t in bed. Apparently I've never pleased her once, once in 22 years. To what extent do I want to subject myself to that? Just how many hands high can a horse be before you can't climb back up on it? Do I want to "save" the M and live with decades more of sexual dissatisfaction? What guarantee do I have that SHE is willing to do The Work? Or is this going to be All SP, All The Time?
8. Dependency, co- and other kinds
You will recall that I babysat the kids over at WAW's place the other day so she could have an individual session with Fab MC#2. I've tried hard not to be critical of her maternal skills, though she is deeply self-critical, borderline self-loathing about them.
But. Deep sigh. I drag the stuff the kids will need the next day over to her place. I open the fridge. 2 unopened containers of tomatoes, moldy. One 2-week-past-date loaf of bread. 1 quart of milk, 1 week past expiration. 3 bottles of water. Jar of salsa. Something wrapped in tin-foil. A pack of AAA batteries. 7 cans of diet soda.
Okay. She hasn't had them. Fair enough. But she knew they were coming over that day. Weeks in advance.
I'd lent her a mini-fridge when she first moved out until her new full-size could be delivered. "You can take the little fridge," she e-'s. Open the mini-fridge. Unplugged for a month. Something growing inside of it. I don't take it.
"Can you look at the light fixture in the bathroom? It hasn't worked for weeks, and I don't know what to do. I was going to call an electrician."
Look at the light fixture. Bulb is burned out.
She is unequipped for life on her own. Is that to be my life? Because it was the life I had, remember, the Loyal Househusband. And it didn't signify. It brought me the Bomb. Am I really going to back there? Is that who I am now? That's what I have to look forward to?
9. Rush -- what's the? When she was swinging in Signore-ville, we had allllll the time in the world. She'd move out on her schedule; she'd file on her schedule; we were "technically separated" and "on our own" anyway -- what was the big deal if she lived here a couple more months?
Now? Decide! Decide! Decide! Decide! Rescue Me! Rescue Me From Myself!
10. She cheated. She has no remorse. She lied. She feels bad because she got caught. She's got a focal point for her rage, now, Miss Someone -- the "professional homewrecker" who's probably smarter than WAW, sexier than WAW, better than WAW in bed, and who the kids will probably love and the 4 of us will be such a happy family living in Europe.
This is it? That's her now? How can I "take back" what I don't recognize? How can I "rebuild" with someone I don't necessarily know I'd want to build with in the first place?
Now time is of the essence, so it's Take Me As I Am? Is she so afraid of Who She Is that she thinks by being rescued she'll change? She'll be her "old self"? And what if she won't be? What if this is Her, Herself -- this is her post-D self?
I'm not a Jesuit. I don't do leaps-of-faith.
I need to know it; I need to see it. I won't believe it until I experience it. And what I'm experiencing is....blechh.
Maybe I missed something, but why the sudden rush to decide?
A sadder example of aimless thrashing around doesn't spring immediately to mind. Is she still pursuing IC? Because, damn, I have to admit I almost do feel sorry for her. It sounds like all this has been festering away for a very long time .... longer than you've been married, probably. She's fighting demons that may have little to do with you, and I hope she gets some help she can accept and utilize.
This struck me particularly powerfully:
Originally Posted By: SP
What she did with Signore is totally different, but that doesn't matter because I clearly never felt anything for WAW. "I f*cked someone 8 months ago and I would probably have done it again but for the fact that I clearly didn't "do it" for him. (Something you two have in common)."
What that has to do with the global sexual complaints is unclear, but if you're quoting correctly, it's heartbreaking.
None of which is either an excuse or your problem per se.
However, decisions made under the influence of *any* strong emotion are ripe for regrets later, IMHO.
Meanwhile, darkly sounds like a good plan.
Last edited by Kettricken; 10/02/0902:49 AM.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Maybe I missed something, but why the sudden rush to decide?
A sadder example of aimless thrashing around doesn't spring immediately to mind. Is she still pursuing IC? Because, damn, I have to admit I almost do feel sorry for her. It sounds like all this has been festering away for a very long time .... longer than you've been married, probably. She's fighting demons that may have little to do with you, and I hope she gets some help she can accept and utilize.
This struck me particularly powerfully:
Originally Posted By: SP
What she did with Signore is totally different, but that doesn't matter because I clearly never felt anything for WAW. "I f*cked someone 8 months ago and I would probably have done it again but for the fact that I clearly didn't "do it" for him. (Something you two have in common)."
What that has to do with the global sexual complaints is unclear, but if you're quoting correctly, it's heartbreaking.
None of which is either an excuse or your problem per se.
However, decisions made under the influence of *any* strong emotion are ripe for regrets later, IMHO.
Meanwhile, darkly sounds like a good plan.
Why is it "sudden"? Isn't it possible that SP has been "fighting demons" while married to her? I'm not advocating divorce, I am advocating self-respect.
In the end, Wasting time is just that wasting time.
She doesn't feel right now but maybe 3 more months she'll be better.
3 months later...
She doesn't feel right now but maybe 3 more months she'll be better.
no, of course you don't make any decisions about anything based upon the delirious, desperate ravings of a woman who's lost her Center--well before Signore. maybe you don't even read them for now. if you do, you employ the wonderful understanding of boundaries you've demonstrated. you know, you can run this over and over in your mind, but none of what she has said means anything besides what she was feeling and spewing in the moment. should she have spewed? nope. but she did, and it sits in your Inbox and you take it for what's it's worth--a snapshot, not an indepth dissertation. you don't agonize over analyzing it--no point, really. yeah, she's hurting over something that she knows she's caused but can't admit it yet because she has to get her mojo to a point of at least minimal capacity or the admission will destroy her. she may choose to have the courage to go there, or she may not. yeah, right now she hurts so much that she most definitely wants to be rescued, to be out of the pain.
in short, you do nothing for now except recognize her desperation and stand back and shake your head, and be sure Themselves are safe.
btw, re: jesuits...one of my current favorite statements is from John Powell S.J.: our lives are shaped by those who love us and those who refuse to love us.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
