Quote: So I've come to say good-bye. I will tap out my web pages by day, and welcome my H home with open arms each night. There will be nothing here by me to cause him any angst in the future. I've got kids to raise and the fight has gone out of the dog. It's a hell of a thing to feel your spirit break.
Corri, You've definitely taken a hit and I'm not surprised you're feeling disspirited. Who wouldn't?! But I'm pretty sure there is a phoenix in you and you'll be rising from the ashes more firey than ever.
If you need to take a break from the boards or leave altogether because it's best for you and your family, more power to you. I fully support you. I will miss you if you decide that is what you must do. I take breaks all the time when family, work, and hurricanes need more of my attention. (Housework can always be ignored )
Quote: Hoops, kids. I don't think our issue is about sex and it never has been. It's about jumping through an endless stream of hoops.
If it is about hoops, and I can see your point here, you know that it really won't matter what you do. There will always be something else where you'll fall short. So you can keep jumping through the ever changing, elusive hoops OR you can insist on clear communication from your H and set some boundaries. (Hmmm, where have I heard that word before?)
Help him with his communication. Insist he be specific and clear. Don't settle for anything less. If you can't tell from what he says exactly what it is that will address his concerns, give him some time to figure it out more clearly, but let him know that you need it to be clear. You can't even begin to find a middle ground if the position he's coming from is ambiguous and ever-changing.
Tell him how you feel about all of this too. Be calm, clear, use "I" statements.
You have alot to offer here. I can't say as I've seen you revealing so much about your H. I know he wanted more sex, didn't want a dog, and hadn't read his part of SSM. That's about it. The rest of what you posted was either help for others or information about yourself. If being a part of these boards was something you enjoyed and felt good about, I think there should be room for negotiation with your H. That might just be coming from my selfish desire not to see you leave.
You've done alot to make your marriage work. You sought counseling for yourself. You went after the sex issue with gusto. You accepted your responsibility for the dog thing and fixed that. You quit your job when you realized you needed more time for your family. Stand proud, girl!
MPT
P.S. As a fellow work-from-the-home wife and mother, I've got some pretty strong opinions about the dinner thing. If there is something so compelling about work or drinks after hours that you can't be home to eat with the family when I put the family dinner on the table, then there isn't going to be much sympathy for a nose out of joint over not having dinner made for the owner of said nose. It is true, out of the goodness of my heart (which is pure gold ), I might offer to make something, but don't even THINK about HINTING that somehow I've been neglectful. Just one of my very clear boundaries.
Corri, say it isn't so. I look forward to reading your posts here and you have such good advice for everyone. I think you enjoy jumping into the fray and having a healthy debate every now and then. If this is something you clearly enjoy and helping others is always good for the soul, why should you have to end it just to please your husband? I should think some kind of compromise is in order here. Sorry to hear about your heated discussion with your husband last night. He apparently has a number of things he is unhappy about, but could not provide you with any solutions and indicated nothing was going to change anyway? How are you going to know which hoops to jump through for him, unless he provides some hints? And then he indicated you probably won't jump through any hoops anyway (nothing will change). I think you have made a lot of changes to help your marriage (the counseling and putting effort into improving your sex life). Has he noted these changes? We all have appreciated your insights here on the board and would hate to see you go.
I am afraid my post the other night was the late night ramblings of a frustrated wife. My husband had been making great progress as of late, but now seems to be slipping back into the old avoidance tactics. And I agree as tempting as an affair would be at times all I would be doing is opening another can of worms, so I shall continue to stay true to the marriage.
I'm sitting here crying as I read through your post, and the many replies from those whom you've helped (or if you haven't, it's not from lack of effort on your part). Even though I have much less time to spend on the boards than when my wife was out of town, like the others I really look forward to your insights.
As an uncommunicative selfish H myself, I'm going to try for a little bit to take a devil's advocate position and try to articulate some possible interpretations of what your H might not be able to. No guarantees I'm right, and this doesn't mean I necessarily agree with him, but I hope it may help.
Quote: we went to a tailgate party three weeks ago, at which I ignored him the whole time we were there.
This one's kind-of hard to address without more detail, but what was the context? A tailgate with who? Your (collective) friends, your (personal) friends, his (personal) friends? Each has a different dynamic. I sounds as though he wanted to be there as a couple and feels like instead you were two individuals; he ended up feeling like a 5th wheel. If his self-confidence was low or he was feeling depressed, it wouldn't take much to do that -- "Why even come if she's going to spend the whole time over there talking with her girlfriends (and probably telling them all about everywhere I come up short)." I don't know who's idea it was, or whether this is something you do all the time, occasionally, or once in a blue moon; that also makes a difference. I'm guessing that he's either thinking, "Why did ask me to come to this if she doesn't even want to be with me?" or, "I asked her to come to this because I thought she'd enjoy being out together, and now she's not even 'here' [with me]."
Quote: Two Friday nights ago he came home from the worst week of his life at work and I had fixed dinner for everyone but him...but then I didn't even offer to make him something after he informed me that he had not eaten!
Did you know, or could/should have inferred that he was having "the worst week of his life at work...?" Was he "out after work with his co-workers for drinks" to try to either improve the situation or commiserate with others in it? It seems that he let you know he wouldn't be home on time, but that when he got home "...it wouldn't be late." Was it late? Does he always let you know when he will/won't be home? A couple of possibilities here, but is sounds as though he probably feels like he was trying to be considerate and did everything he could to let you know what his situation was. Are there normally leftovers? Do you normally (or even on a reasonably frequent basis) offer to fix him something when "...he informe[s] me that he had not eaten?" If this was a change "down" from his expectations (whether reasonable to you or not), then he'd feel snubbed, neglected, etc., especially since he'd gone out of his way to let you know what was going on and come home early -- especially if he left the group before it completely broke up.
Quote: In the past three weeks I've turned him down once for sex.
We all know you've been working on this one; deep down I'm sure he does, too. But again, when did this happen in relation to the above two episodes? Was this with a gentle promise of more another time soon or a blast from a Siberian winter? Since you started working on this, when was the last time you turned him down (or did so in this manner)? I'm sure at that point he felt that things were going right back to the "bad old days" in this area, and depending on the timing, part of the pattern of neglect he'd seen in the previous two examples.
Quote: Then there's the dog. I got the dog when he emphatically told me he didn't want one.
I'm sure you remember my cat story. Well, on a good day I can tolerate "Thing 1 and Thing 2." I may even scratch behind their ears a little bit. On a bad day, as I think I said before, they're a pair of living, breathing, getting into everything, destructive, flea-bearing , in-my-face reminders that MY WIFE DOESN'T CARE WHAT I THINK!!! And this is before I'm asked to clean up after them, pay a vet bill, need to get shed hair off of clothes, upholstery, etc., which really rubs salt in the wound. Well, enough said on that rant, except to say that they're a "gift that keeps on giving."
Quote: The clencher, though, is that I am spending way too much time on these boards, telling you all too much about my life, our details, and then on top of all that, I put my URL address on my profile for a day...
There are two dynamics here. The first one is time. How much time have you been on the boards when he's home? Have you ever put him off with, "...just a few minutes, honey" because you were in the middle of writing a post? For that matter, how often have you put him off, even briefly, while doing something else on your computer, that it wouldn't be unreasonable (from his point of view) to think that you were on the boards? Again here, perception is reality, and the time you spend helping all of us (which we truly appreciate) is time that's unavailable to him.
Then there's the privacy issue. There are too many possible things to address here, but a couple of thoughts. First, intimacy as a touchy area for most of us (no pun intended), and so the fact you're even on such a board probably makes your H very uncomfortable. Then there are all the terrible things you're broadcasting to the world about him, as in "My H is an inconsiderate, self-centered, beast who never does anything for me and thinks about sex 24/7 and on top of that is a lousy lover..." Not that you've actually said that, but how does he know? I'm fairly sure he doesn't read your posts, so telling him you don't probably isn't particularly comforting. Besides, if he's predisposed to thinking that's what you're saying, I'm sure he could read it "between the lines" even if he saw your posts. To make matters worse, if he did read your posts, he could find all kinds of implied criticism. Any statement you make about "men" in general, he'll see as pointed directly at him. And if it's something he might not exactly want to see emblazoned for all the world -- like, for example, "What is it about this male fascination with an orifice designed for one-way traffic?" [I may not have gotten it precisely right, but you remember the discussion] -- it's going to cut deeply. So, to borrow a phrase from John Gray, he's heading for his cave, and he's going to be there awhile...and if you aren't there waiting breathlessly for him when he comes out, then that validates whatever he was thinking when he went in.
Now, is expecting you to be "waiting breathlessly for him when he comes out" reasonable or, more to the point, realistic? Of course not...but expectations don't need to be either.
Quote: He said there wasn't anthing I could do, it's just the way things are. It's just the way I am.
Hoops, kids. I don't think our issue is about sex and it never has been. It's about jumping through an endless stream of hoops.
Your R didn't get where it was in a day, and it won't change in a day, either. You move two steps up and one step back, and every time you backslide, your H sees a trend back to the way things used to be. It sounds like he's depressed and lonely. Of course, you know that you can't change that. The best you can do is to provide a better environment in which he can feel safe to start -- or (probably) from his perspective, continue -- changing himself.
We all jump through hoops -- at work, with our kids, with our spouses -- it's part of life. I disagree with your statement: your issue IS about sex and it ALWAYS has been. BUT, that doesn't mean it's unipolar, that you can say "We've solved the sex issue, now everything is great." It's vitally important to your husband. If he's like me (and it sounds like we may have much in common), it's the most powerful validation you can give him, sometimes the only one that counts, and he's been hurting for a long time.
That being said, you've decided to pick up the ball and run with it. You've made some major changes, and believe me, he's noticed. At the same time, the very fact you've improved that aspect allows other areas of dissatisfaction to start bubbling to the surface. Are we all dissatisfied with our spouses? I highly doubt we'd be here if we weren't. Does that mean we don't love them? Of course not, but they may not be feeling it. I can't be sure, but I'd guess that at least part of the "hoops" you're going through right now are your husband's efforts to begin reacting to the positive changes you've made, all the time fearful that he's going to make a mistake and that things will go back to the way they were, or even worse than before. He's constantly on guard for signs that might be happening, and so he's seeing them even when they aren't there. He's probably a royal pain to live with. "Things never change" may well be a defense mechanism, some armor he can put around his feelings to keep them from getting hurt. It won't work (in the long run), but a lot of us aren't smart enough to see it.
Well, I've gone on far longer than I intended. Like your other "fans," I sure hope that you can work out some kind of compromise and come back. We're going to really miss you.
But let me ask one more question. "Now granted, I had to drag all of this out of him because he didn't feel he needed to share this information with me as things never change and he should never expect otherwise." Going back to before you started making conscious changes, could you have even dragged this level of detail out of him? I suspect that even if you could have (and I'm doubtful), it would have been much more work. Yes, in some ways he's being immature and childish. But none of us likes to get hurt. Keep working on him. You (collective and individual) are worth it!
HERE is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, behind Christopher Robin...sometimes he feels that there really is another way [of coming downstairs], if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it.
I heard from Corri today via e-mail and she wanted me to pass along that she's doing well and that some "extraordinary positives" have come out of the episode with her husband that she described last week. She was very appreciative of the support that she received from everyone on this board and she said that she'd be back soon and would explain everything then.
Well, yes I do. First, I owe you all an enormous apology. Rather than asking you all for help, I came here and simply stated that I was leaving. I am absolutely horrible at asking for help, and I'm very sorry for my insensitivity. I didn't give any of you the opportunity to stretch out a hand in return, and looking back on it now, I am astounded by how incredibly selfish that was of me.
But you all reached out anyway. I want you all to know that I read each and every post you made on this thread about 15 times each, and I don't think I've cried this much since I was a small kid. I was so overwhelmed and humbled by every single one of you. And because of your heartfelt efforts to reach out and offer up advice in such compassionate non-judgemental ways, I think my H finally understood that this board truly is different, and that the people who post here really do care about one another and see each other as friends. I think he was really surprised to find that he was not villanized, and that you were all as supportive of him as you were of me.
I hope you all understand on some level that the 'blow up' my H and I had really had nothing to do with tailgate parties, dogs, missed dinners, too much board time, and every other miscellaneous complaint under the sun.
We had a major, major breakdown in communication and because neither one of us was paying close enough attention, we hurt each other far deeper than should have ever happened. Goes to show that coasting is never an option in relationships.
HOWEVER, this also goes to show me once again that when you think you've reached your darkest hour, the end of the line, the absolute bottom of the barrel, extraordinary things can happen.
After the 'blow up' and my very dramatic good-bye post (god, I so showed my ass, I'm so sorry), I went away for a weekend with my best friend. Of course I tell her my whole schpiel and how I've really lost hope this time I'm done, I just don't know what to do, he finally broke my spirit... she did what best friends are supposed to do, and she listened, nodded her head with understanding when appropriate and let me talk myself out...
So she finally asks, "Okay, are you done?" I nod my despondent head. And then she did what only true best friends can and will do without fear. She looked me straight in the eye, and laughed right in my face.
"You dumb ass," she says to me. "He didn't break your spirit, and you aren't even CLOSE to being done. You are a lot of things right now, but the one thing you aren't is indifferent. You were closer to the end six months ago than you are now. He HURT you and you should be damn thankful that you are able to feel pain again. I'd be more worried about you if it didn't hurt. All this means is you've rejoined the land of the living. Welcome back. Now let's go eat."
Ain't she great?
So then I come home and my H and I review last week's 'blow up.' We were both at fault. I was able to hear him, and he was able to hear me. And I think we both have a much better understanding of how important it is not to just let things go or slide in the interests of keeping the peace, and how important it is that we must always 'pay attention.' We have an obligation to speak up, speak out and make damn sure we get heard... or sh!t like our 'blow up' happens and makes things 10 times worse than it ever needed to be.
Then we had sex.
So, all, I am terribly sorry for my SNIT, and I am so thankful you all care. And what gets me even deeper is, you all just offer 'welcome backs!" and leave it at that... I just have no words of thanks deep enough for that.
You all have humbled me greatly, and I thank you for it.
Quote: how important it is not to just let things go or slide in the interests of keeping the peace, and how important it is that we must always 'pay attention.' We have an obligation to speak up, speak out and make damn sure we get heard... or sh!t like our 'blow up' happens and makes things 10 times worse than it ever needed to be.
Been there, done that, could not agree with you more, Corri. In my first marriage I kept it to myself. With this marriage I vowed to speak out and be heard. I have. Yes, sometimes it opens up cans of worms, but I've also found that H&I are much more accepting of each other. We can listen to each other and absorb what the other is saying. While keeping it to myself would undoubtedly maintain peace, I would be so much more unhappy inside (and eventually it would show up outside, too)
Quote: So, all, I am terribly sorry for my SNIT, and I am so thankful you all care. And what gets me even deeper is, you all just offer 'welcome backs!" and leave it at that... I just have no words of thanks deep enough for that.
For what it's worth, I never thought of it as a snit. Sometimes we have to get away, Corri. We have to have some downtime to work things out for ourselves. While everyone here has only the best intentions, I also realize that sometimes it can get overwhelming. You did what you've told countless others -- take time for yourself, do something that makes *you* happy. You practice what you preach, which makes the help you offer -- well . . . more *helpful.*
WELCOME BACK...WE MISSED YOU!! I've posted a couple of times on other threads, and saw you had returned, but wanted to save a direct response for this thread. Thanks again for all you do for all of us. sound of thousands cheering...
HERE is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, behind Christopher Robin...sometimes he feels that there really is another way [of coming downstairs], if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it.
Good to see you back. I'm still feeling seasick (I expect this to last till Dec - help!) so don't feel much like posting but still catch up on reading the threads from time to time. How have you been keeping? LH
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), I might offer to make something, but don't even THINK about HINTING that somehow I've been neglectful. Just one of my very clear boundaries. 
