Trying to save my M. W not really trying though.

[etrain]

You would be amazed how similar. We only lasted 3 sessions with the MC before she cancelled them. I also got that I married him because he was stable and a good provider, in other words, security. My wife too has yet to remember any good times. I have gotten that I am a great father and a good catch from her, but that is all.

It will be a battle to the end if we divorce who moves out of the house first...Rule number one, never leave your house I am told.

By the way: My wife goes out dressed to kill at least 1-2 nights a week and comes home at 3am.

Same here. I am not moving out of our house. My W has brought up S a couple times but if/when we get to that point, I'm not going anywhere. It was HER choice.

Our stories sound almost identical. I hope things work out. We deserve to be happy, M or not.

[wanttobebetter]

The family contact is an iffy thing....it got me a lot of information and I realized how much my W was lying to them to make it one-sided. On the other hand, it did piss her off and may have driven her further away. For me, in my sitch, it was worth it. There were times I regretted it but looking back, it was ok. Her Mom contacted me a lot and warned me about a number of things....they used to be close but not anymore. My W just hangs up on her now.

[Thinker]

Yes, I do suspect an A. But what should I do?

Do I start spying on her to get more "evidence"? I don't want to push her further away by being an obsessed, jealous husband. I think I already made that mistake when I confronted her about the email exchange I found a couple weeks ago. She suspects that I'm snooping so she's barely using our PC...and when she does she's deleting history, etc...seems to be really covering her tracks. I don't want to be a lunatic about this & start installing keyloggers or GPS tracking devices on her car. That's just not me. But I do want to know whether or not she's involved in an A.

Hi etrain,

I was in the exact same place as you 9 months ago, and I remember having exactly those same thoughts. I was going crazy, and wanting to believe my W at the same time. My W was calling me controlling, which made me want to back off and give her space. At the same time she was being VERY secretive - changed the password on her computer and email account, deleted her history, etc.

You have a decision to make.

You can "trust" and ignore and hope for the best. If your W is not having an A this may be the way to go. On the other hand, it just may make you so suspicious and resentful that you drive her away.

Or you can decide that you have to know.

I see it this way. When spouse begins to cheat, they start trying to control their left behind spouse. Yes, I said that correctly. The wayward spouse wants to be able to do what they want (have an A), while PREVENTING the LBS from reacting to that A. To that end they will lie and do everything they can to hide the A from you because they want to keep everything stable at home while they have their A. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

They justify this by calling you controlling, and jealous, and suspicious, and unreasonable and everything else. They believe it in their own mind (cognative dissonance?), but it also does a pretty good job of putting you (the LBS) on the defensive. I know it knocked me for a loop - "Well maybe I am too controlling..."

I finally realized that I DESERVED to know the truth about what was going on and to make my own decisions about how I was going to react. I also realized that doing nothing was just destroying my M. For one, there is NO ability to work on the M during an active A, and second, "fooling" me while she was going after OM was just causing my W's respect for me to deteriorate.

The only way forward is to find out whether there is an A or not. If there is not, then good, relax and patiently focus on your M. If there is, then you need to strongly, calmly and confidently bust the A wide open.

Exposing an A will anger your W, and will harm the R between you, but not as much the continued resentment and lack of respect that the A causes.

In my sitch, I decided to know. I installed a keylogger on my W's computer. If you can't do that, there are other versions that work on the network and your home router, capturing the traffic in and out. The key logger gave me the passwords for her email and facebook accounts. When I had access to her phone (she was in the shower or something) I went to the website for her phone account (from the provider) and followed the forgotten password procedure. This texted the password to her phone - I got it and deleted the text.

Within a short period of time I had a set of incriminating emails, proof of an online Facebook relationship, and a record of multiple texts per day with OM going back months.

You deserve to know.

Once you know, however, be VERY careful. Don't react immediately. If there is an A, come here, talk it through, determine what you want to do. Your initial emotional reaction will probably be wrong. If there is an A, and you know it, we can help you work through how to react.

Keep in touch.



Note: Be forewarned. Spying on your spouse is very difficult on you, it is EXTREMELY emotionally addictive, and leads quickly to true codependent controlling behavior. If you go down this path, you have to be prepared to a) spy enough to find out what is going on and be able to expose it, then b)STOP spying again so that you can focus on yourself. Once you know that there is an A, that second part (stopping) is REALLY hard.

[Steve McQueen]

One more thing...last night, I left the DB window open on our computer...with the WAW Syndrome article on the screen...just so my W would see it. I just asked her if she read it & she said...yeah, I figured that's why you left it up. I asked if she thought it sounded like what we're going through & she said...no, not at all.

maybe you should leave the womensinfidelity.com web page up and ask her if that sounds like what you are going through ...

Amazing. I'm telling you, it is EXACTLY what we're going through. Maybe having her read the article was a mistake. I don't know. Just thought it might make her realize that what we're going through is sort of common & things can get better.

In her mind it is not, and why to you think she might want to realize/think things may get better. To make things more clear, why does it sound EXACTLY what you are going through? What have you done to neglect her and left her needing to move on? Forget how she is acting now. What pissed or turned her off to decide this for herself?

This morning, she was still in a pretty good mood but actually got sick to her stomach & vomited as we were all getting ready to leave the house. She's been having stomach problems like this for weeks. Part of me thinks it's the guilt that's getting to her.

nice. guilt rarely plays into these situations. shes barfing up something else. bad shrimp? she told you earlier what is going on:

all my W says is that her needs have changed & she's not in love w/ me anymore.

now, alot of people on this site say, dont believe anything they say. I disagree with that so much. my needs have changed and I'm not in love with you anymore jeez, sounds to me like either they have something on the side which is more inticing and they are letting you down easy or they have very little respect or love for you to mess with your head and heart like that. which is better? which is more true?

Yes, I do suspect an A. But what should I do?

you either go lunatic or you go cuckold!

the sooner you know the truth the sooner you can deal with the situation effectively and make them step-up to the plate. I think it is more lunatic to be hanging out on this site for 6 months - a year then all of a sudden posting shes been cheating on me the whole time or worse to follow the advice, 'give them space' so they can get laid elsewhere.

but lets hear what you have to say,

What have you done to neglect her and left her needing to move on? What pissed or turned her off to decide this for herself? and if you gave her space, lets say for a year to find herself, gets screwed maybe 200 - 250 times, then wants to work on your marriage, are you into it?

[Thinker]

Yes, I do suspect an A. But what should I do?

you either go lunatic or you go cuckold!

Better lunatic.

The error most people seem to make (indeed I think I made) is to be so afraid of losing your M, that you don't stick up for yourself.

And by not sticking up for yourself, you lose the chance to save your M.

If there is an A, the best answer is "You are a grown adult and I can not tell you what to do, but I will not share you with another man in any way shape or form". You may not continue to see him and stay married to me at the same time. If you continue the A, then please leave this house now."

You have to wait on saying this until you can say it in a calm strong and confident way - no begging, no yelling.

You have to wait on saying this until you really mean it and can follow through on the consequences, including throwing your spouse out, initiating D yourself, etc.
It forces your spouse to confront the full facts of what she is doing and the consequences of it.

When you say this, you have to be fully emotionally prepared to follow through immediately.

the sooner you know the truth the sooner you can deal with the situation effectively and make them step-up to the plate.

After my own experience, I fully agree.

[d1adsl5a]

Been there, done that etrain. Confronted her with all sorts of evidence. Cell phone calls, texts.. They deny, deny, deny.

I stopped snooping and got my sanity back. I can't control her. She is going to do what she is going to do. Regardless, this Marriage will get better or end. Ball is in her court. I can't control her actions. So I just gave up snooping...

[Thinker]

The point of snooping is not to confront them with the evidence. It is not to try to change what your spouse is doing.

It is only to KNOW what is going on so that YOU can make a good decision about what YOU are going to do.

[ClingingToHope]

One more thing. I am controlling with money. So after this happened she finally agreed to pay the bills. Wanted her to see what to do when we spend more than I make. Last two months the visa bill was $5k every month..

Yes. Me too. She's admitted to me that taking care of her own finances is a real eye-opener. That's one area where I'm really not scare of a D. Right now, I'm paying all of the credit card debt she ran up, if she goes through with a D, then 50 percent of that becomes hers.

Financially, a D is better than a S for me.

[etrain]

Been there, done that etrain. Confronted her with all sorts of evidence. Cell phone calls, texts.. They deny, deny, deny.

I stopped snooping and got my sanity back. I can't control her. She is going to do what she is going to do. Regardless, this Marriage will get better or end. Ball is in her court. I can't control her actions. So I just gave up snooping...

When I found the email a couple weeks ago, it was the result of some snooping. Also saw some very mean IM's between my W & one of her girlfriends on my W's Facebook. Nothing about an A on her Facebook though.
After that, I came to the same conclusion as you. The snooping was making me crazy & making things worse so I stopped doing it.

[Decoy]

This is the thread I should have posted the below listed comments on:

How are most PA's and EA's discovered? Is it because of the snooping of the spouse or do they slip or do the cheaters come to a realization that they were wrong and amdit it? If I confront the W one more time about an A there will be some serious consequences. Ive been treated as if I am the worst person ever for even asking. This is horrible because I trust her sincerity to me when she denies any PA or EA but this board sure makes it look like that is typical behavior for someone involved in an A. Best or not, I am still holding onto the hope and faith that she has been honest with me.

With that said, she has admitted, in the past, with e-mailing and speaking with an old male friend who lives far away. I have continualy been told by my W that she has always gotten along better with males as there is too much drama with women, etc..

I am fairly certain those communications still occur. At this point I am told that i am the one that created the distance between us and that is nothing to do with anything else. When women in EA's deny being involved in such, are they typically straight up lying to protect themselves, knowing that what they are doing is wrong or do they really believe what they are doing is innocent.

I suspect that any further suspicion on my part will kill the R.