Facebook Affair Wrecks Family of 5 - Need advice

[Airwolf]

Last Friday, my W admitted to her Facebook SA with a highschool BF. FYI, he dumped my W after a month b/c his W tried to commit suicide when she discovered his SA. I had all weekend to stew while having my time with the 3 kids (a 4yo & 2yo twins). Thankfully, I knew she was at her parents house.

Sunday night when she came home, I blew it big time. Let her have a hearty helping of my anger. Told her how disgusted I was by her (even though she's lost 30 lbs since August and is looking great.) I asked her if she wished the OM's W had succeeded in the suicide? Turned into a horrible fight. I wish I could take back all of that.

That night I started reading DB and decided to detach. I stopped wearing my wedding ring, joined a Christian divorce recovery group (in another town under an alias) and started being nice and civil to my W.

It's certainly helping me -- eventhough I retained my attorney last week and my W retained hers today. We're going Collaborative, not litigation. And Calif. it's "no fault" for both D and custody.

She's already packed up half our condo, and it goes on the market next week. I've moved in with my folks, and she's going to hers.

Tonite, she had dinner with the W of my best friend, and confessed to the whole SA. From the feedback I got, it sounded like she hasn't shut the door on reconciliation, even though she thinks it would take a miracle. (I very intentionally filed for separation, not D, and my attorney's letter to her clearly stated I don't want D, I want to work it out.)

Of course, I have no idea how I'd ever get the images of my W and the OM out of my head. But perhaps that's the cross I have to bear to save my family.

At this point, I'm very comfortable with detaching. It seems like a win-win. But I don't know how far to take it. If the OM is really out of the picture (because his in-law/employers have him financially by the short hairs) then I'm hopeful that somewhere in this multi-month process, she'll see the light.

One of the couples leading the recovery group I joined actually had similar history when the W cheated on the H. She now has to be completely accountable and transparent about where she is, who she talks to, etc. I don't know if my W could ever do that. (It doesn't help that she's isolated herself from any family and friends who would disapprove of the SA).

I could also use advice on how to break the news to our 4yo daughter. Should it be at the condo we're moving out of, or the beach, or a park? I'm assuming that, even at her age, this is something she'll remember all her life, and I want to do it the right way. I'd do anything to spare the pain from my daughter, but maybe this will be something that helps my WAW see the reality of what she's doing to the children, and me?

[saffie]

Airwolf,

Firstly let me give you some of my background so you know where I am 'coming from' in my comments to you. I am the one whose H had the A. It went on unbeknownst to me for 18 months with one of my H's employees. I was the one who tried to commit suicide when I found out. We have four children- ours are older and at the time were 15,13,11 and 8 yrs old.

I think a lot of what will happen in the future depends on WHY your W felt the need to look outside your M for comfort.

I feel your anger and hurt and I greatly sympathise, but if you want to keep your M, (and don't do it just for the kids, that is never a good enough reason IMO), then you need to see what brought you both to this point. Your W may be the one that has broken her vows and gone outside the M but I don't believe you are perfect and did not cause to some extent, her reasons for looking elsewhere.Usually both parties have contributed to the breakdown of a M and an OP is a symptom , not the cause of a marital problem. In addition, your children are young, she could be suffering from post natal depression, ( that often doesn't kick in until a child is 6 months old and can occur up until the child is around 5yrs old).

If you want to save your M you must look at what caused it's downfall and each 'own' your own part.

Don't worry too much about what you tell your children - they are young and will be very accepting. It is actually harder for older children to cope with. Whatever you do though, do not use your children as a weapon. Their mother will always be their mother, just as you will always be their father. DO NOT talk negatively about each other to the children.

My H and I managed to both 'own' our own parts in the downfall of our M. Once we got past the inital horror we realised that we did love each other deeply still.....we had just grown apart with all the things that life throws at one when raising a family etc.

Of course I despise the OW. She voluntarily left her own two small children to try and take my H away from me. She had it all planned out that I would leave my children and she would move in and become their mother and she would just step into my shoes - fat chance. It would have been over my dead body. If I ever see her again I don't know what I would do - I have never been able to reach a stage of forgiveness as far as she is concerned and I don't think I ever will; but then she is just a peripheral thing.

Your W may not know why she has done what she has - it may just be a cry for help. I know you are hurt but please don't despise her. We are all human and even if you don't manage to save your M, ( or don't want to), you will always need to be able to commmunicate effectively for the sake of your children.

BTW, anger, hate, hurt,etc. all show we care still. The worst thing of all is complete disinterest. If your W shows you that then you are probably on a loser.

Have you heard of Retrouvaille? Try searching for that. It is something that many couples on here have tried and it has really helped their situations.

[Airwolf]

Dear Saffie -- Thank you for your kind and true words. We just had a Retrouvaille weekend here in our town 7 days ago. I tried to get my wife to go, but she was still in the SA and refused. Now that she's on the other side of the breakup (crossing my fingers), she might be more open to it.

The last few weeks (and before I read DB) I've grown increasingly uncomfortable saying things like "think of the kids" or "for the sake of the kids." While I do believe she isn't thinking straight -- and certainly being selfish -- I want to seek reconciliation for the sake of all 5 of us, but even more for the 2 of us. I don't think she's realized that -- divorced or married -- we'll be in weekly contact regarding the kids for the next few decades.

As a Christian, I know two things. (And please forgive me for explaining my faith.) First, we are all fallen and imperfect. None of us is without sin (an archery term meaning "to miss the mark.") And second, JC sacrificed himself to pay the price, so we wouldn't have to. As a husband and father, I understand that so well now, because I would readily run thru traffic, a warzone, or cross shark-infested waters to save my W and family.

If my W's sin has been the SA, then my sin has been laying the foundation for her discontent. You may be right about the post natal depression, and God knows my W can be very materialistic and a spendthrift, but for a long time I haven't been there for her like I should've been. Instead I viewed it as her problem for failing to make me happy in the M. Until recently, I've been a very passive, sit-on-the-couch, unambitious guy. (Now I'm in a new job where I can't wait to take on the world, and prove what I can achieve.)

I've undermined her trust by using credit cards to artificially prop up our lifestyle (80% her spending and 20% mine) and for 5 years I told her when she would ask that the card was paid off, when it wasn't. The monthly balance stayed a manageable $2k-10k until I was laid off in JAN. I got a new job in MAY, but by AUG we had $28k in debt. My parents and her parents equally paid it off, but it was humiliating for both of us (more for her).

Compounding my dishonesty about our finances, she gave up her tenured position in MAY. At the time, she happily gave it up, thinking we were financially secure, and because the 100-mile commute was one she never wanted to make again. Now that she's considering life w/o me, she claims I took her job and career away and will never forgive me. She forgets that she pleaded w/ me in the spring to find a better job so she could resign.

I think the worst thing I've done is not support her emotionally. She felt sucked dry from raising twin toddlers and a 4yo. She nursed the twins for 18mos straight, and could count on 1 hand the nites she and they slept thru. I slept thru the majority of those nites, justifying in mind that I needed my sleep for work the next day. They never took to bottles, so how could I have helped? I know now that at the very least I could have gotten up and held her hand.

I believe in the power of forgiveness. I've heard of other couples getting past SAs. But I do hear it's a very, very long road to recovery. Maybe Retrouvaille or another program will help. For now, I think she's very depressed (because the SA is over, the M is ending, and the reality of bills and raising 3 kids alone is setting in). I'm hoping some of her Christian friends (who she's ignored for the past 6 wks of the SA) may be able to encourage her now.

I do love my W dearly, even though she's become a completely different person during the SA. I wish I could send her this post, but I know it's not DB's way. We're only on day #2 of a 6mo Collaborative D process, so I pray that time brings healing, forgiveness, and a chance for us both to step back from this chasm.

I know I'm early in the process, but I wish I knew at what point to make a move here. I don't want to get through $20k in legal bills to realize we could've saved this $15k ago. It's not the money, but I don't want her heart to harden and accept that D is inevitable because too much has been said and done.

When do I switch from detaching to an ultimatum? I guess I need to get DR. Any advice?

[Dia]

Hi, Airwolf.

I am giving your thread a bump because I want to keep track of it and give you some more input later when I have time (crazy work week).

In short, don't worry about ultimatums just yet.

Get the book by Gary Chapman called 5 Love Languages.

Get DR. I 'clicked' with it a whole lot more than DB.

If you listed your condo in a fit of hurt and anger, maybe you could hold off on the listing for a bit? I don't mean to sound heavy handed, but if you reconcile, will you really regret having sold that condo?

[Airwolf]

Thanks Dia! -- Regarding the condo, this is an ok time to sell since the mkt has turned and inventory is low. I told my W two weeks ago that with the equity we would get, we could turn around and buy a brand new house (not condo) like she has always wanted. (Maybe not in development she wanted, but you gotta start somewhere.) She seemed to pause and consider that momentarily, but that was when she was still wrapped up in the SA.

One concern I have now is what she will do with her half of the condo sale. I mentioned she's a spendthrift. Virtually her whole wardrobe no longer fits. She has also mentioned taking her and kids 200 miles away where the OM lives. Since the breakup of the SA, she justifies it by saying she will be an outcast in our town/family once everyone finds out. (I'm trying my hardest not to tell a soul.)

Another concern I have is that after 2 pregs and 3 kids she is looking into plastic surg. When I was snooping (done with that!) I uncovered a referral for breast lift and tummy tuck. That's something she's mentioned in the past, and I was OK with it, but I'm afraid she is so depressed after the end of the SA, and has lost her self-esteem, that she may spend the condo proceeds on that. Before the SA, I would've supported it 100%. Heck, since the S I've even considered getting my ears pinned (something that's bugged me my whole life since they stick out a bit). Now I'm concerned any plast surg will feed her romance addiction and give her hope that the New Her may yet convince the OM to leave his suicidal W.

Despite the SA, I'm beginning to get psyched up to fight as hard as I can for my marriage. I give us a 1-2% chance because it is in her hands. But I'm doing the right thing by 180/detaching right now, and being the kindest spouse (but not a doormat) and the best dad I can be.

I know at somepoint I need to explain to her how I've contributed to our S, so she knows I get it. But I need to find out where in the process that should occur.

Thanks for suggesting DR. I'll go get it today!

[Steve McQueen]

But I'm doing the right thing by 180/detaching right now,

One concern I have now .....
Another concern I have is that after .....
Now I'm concerned .....

You seem more concerned than detached.

[Airwolf]

Good point. But I've got 3 little kids, so I can only be detached so much. As DB suggests, part of being detached is being a good actor around the WAW.

[Decoy]

How are most PA's and EA's discovered? Is it because of the snooping of the spouse or do they slip or do the cheaters come to a realization that they were wrong and amdit it? If I confront the W one more time about an A there will be some serious consequences. Ive been treated as if I am the worst person ever for even asking.

[saffie]

Airwolf,

Firstly, never ask forgiveness for your faith.

As you are no doubt aware, having children changes a woman's identity and how she feels about herself. You mention in another post that your W talked about plastic surgery etc. I can empathise completely. If she feels that bad about herself, (and it doesn't matter how good she does actually look- it's how she feels she looks), then can you imagine what the OM's attraction to her must have felt like? Wow! Someone actually does think I am fanciable. I just used to think my H said he thought I looked good because he wanted to have sex....I never really thought he meant it - and that's with me being a size 6. Having said that, I honestly don't think you need to dwell on the OM and if he is a factor any more. As the W of the OM, I can assure you that once I knew what my H was up to he didn't have the time or the chance to consider the OW anymore. Infact it was me who obsessed about her - so much so that I nearly broke the M up with my fixation and dislike of her. I did however contact her H just to make sure he knew there would be pretty bad repercussions if his W came anywhere near my H again.

One thing I have a question mark about with DB is that it's a very one sided thing. Now sometimes that is what is needed, but not always, so don't feel you have to keep your distance. your W will be feeling guilty about her actions and also hurt from the rejection of the OM - don't let her slip away because she thinks you are so disgusted and don't care. She also knows that she contributed to the debt with her spending. Again I can empathise with this.

When I was very unhappy in my M , but before I knew about my H's A.....and maybe before he even had his A, I would spend money like anything. I also have horses and even though they can only wear one rug each at a time, my main horse had over 30 rugs!!!! Luckily my H has a very good job as the CEO of a company BUT even so we still had 4 children to support, a large house, the horses and my life style.....I was a lady who like to ride, shop and 'do' lunch. However, I shopped because I was unhappy....and I knew that, but I just couldn't stop. I did stop my H having the things he wanted though because I controlled the money and I spent it. Don't I sound like a real b!tch!!!! But then we all have our faults. I didn't even want half the things I bought.

The biggest thing that saved our M was that we owned up to our faults and we talked about them, and how to not make them again. We also laughed about the faults that we actually liked in each other. My H liked having a high maintenance W - he just wanted one that also expressed her love to him. I had stopped being able to show him that I loved him as I was all 'cuddled' out by the end of the day with four children. He like talking to other people when he was out at business functions about our life style and the horses etc - even though he doesn't like the horses - weird huh

I had a lot of therapy - cognitive behavioural therapy- which I found hugely helpful and it really helped me take a good look at things and learn to cope much better.

I guess in all my ramblings I am trying to say that you do need to continue to communicate and keep that path home welcome and obvious. Why do you feel the need to issue any ultimatums? It seems the OM has gone and I would think issuing ultimatums would only put your W's back up. Let the legal side of things slide apart from sorting out your finances. Perhaps you can agree to put the moneys from the condo sale into a joint account that both parties signatures are required on for any withdrawals etc whilst you work out what is going to happen long term. Perhaps some time apart with you both at your parents will be a good thing and you can date and get to know each other again. My h and I set up friends to babysit so we could go out and just be with each other and also spend the occasional night away. My therapist told me that it is always important to have something to look forward to together - however small it may be, and that has proven to be so true.

None of us are perfect. It is just a question of if we can live with each other's imperfections and if we can change those things that are S's really can't live with. What's most important though is to be true to yourself and to look after your children.