Someone please explain...

[SpyBunny]

I still haven't decided what I want to do today about the lease. I feel like a wreck. I am home so that I can have some alone time to download financial records off the computer- his paystubs, account passwords and balances, etc., and also to download copies of the digital family photos. I also want to pack up some sentimental small stuff and papers that we don't have an electronic copy of. I can store that stuff at my office.

Some gems from last night:
H: I didn't realize that you linked my pushing of he medication with swinging.
M: It is a big link.

H: At this point, with the M broken like it is, I would say swinging is probably more important to me.
M: Swinging is only supposed to be an enhancement to a stable relationship, not a fix for a broken one.

H: I guess I can be insensitive at times, but you need to let me know when I am.
M: I was CRYING at the time!

H: (Regarding the verbal lashing from last week) I should have said something sooner (about feeling ambushed). I let it go too long and stewed about it for too long, and that the better of me.

C: How did you feel about swinging this winter?
M: I was feeling like a cheap, used hooker; I put up walls around my emotions for H and withdrew from him; it had been a detriment to our marriage. I told all this to H at the time.
H: But you never actually said the words "I want to stop swinging."
C: That seemed pretty clear to me in what she was saying. Is your hope and desire for swinging blinding to what she does say, and as long as you don't hear those magic words, you still feel like there is a chance of resuming?
H: Yeah, probably.

M: For several years after your first bomb, you were punishing me for my perceived shortcomings by emotionally withdrawing. You got what you wanted- a swinging marriage, and I was jumping through hoops to make the changes you wanted- But I didn't do anything really wrong. YOU were the one who cheated- what was YOUR punishment? It seems like instead you got everything you wanted.
H: I admit I was emotionally withdrawn, but that wasn't a punishment.
M: Oh, yes, it was!

So we got a lot out last night, and I told this to H last night, everything I have said so far is NOT new information. I have said it all before- whether or not he was listening at the time is another matter. I guess I am saying it better, more confidently, and H admitted that our conversations don't usually flow like this.

The C wants to see us back a week from Thursday to discuss where we want to go from here, and H wants to talk some more in that period. I'm nervous that I may not do as well as I did last night. Does being in the C office make me feel safer and therefore better able to talk? Do I wait until after that appointment to sign the lease? If I sign it now, and H decides he really does want to work on things, do I take the risk of trying again with him?

I'm trying to hold it together while I decide. Any thoughts or ideas are welcome- please... I do have an IC appt. at 5, good timing on that one.

[lost-n-Iowa]

I personally think that you should ask the IC what she thinks about you signinghte lease. She may not give you a direct answer but maybe she can help steer you in a much more clearer path.

I am sitting here with the same problem on deciding what to do. Things get bad, things get worse, I want out, I voice this to H, and then things get better and it makes me wonder if I am over reacting. Then the cycle starts over again.

I know that my problem is in my own head as to whether or not I can make it on my own without the H. And if I will be able to provide for my girls like I should. I am having trouble making a leap of faith when I have no control over the outcome. That is truely scary to me. So seriously do some soul searching and ask yourself why you are staying with him. I noticed that I have the above problem and that I still love him and still have high hopes for this M. IT may be a that I am living in fantasy land right now but at least I identified what holds me. Now I have to see if it is enough.

[Dia]

FWIW, many counselors will tell a couple NOT to talk about big issues between sessions. This keeps the pressure low between sessions, and it ensures that what you both want to say is said in a supportive environment with a greater chance of the other partner really *listening*.

IMHO, I would tell your H that you will only discuss certain things in the counseling environment.

[Kimmie Lee]

Swinging is h's CORE VALUE. He will not want to change or give it up. It's who he is.

Sign the lease now.

[SpyBunny]

The MC seemed to think that there is a chance of salvaging the M, but my IC isn't so sure. I'm not either. I just don't want to bolt too early, but I'm not really sure what I'm waiting for.

I think I make just enough now that I can take care of myself and D if I go, regardless of whether H contributs for D.

If I decide to go, and go quickly, what do I do about D? Just grab some of her clothes, her computer and her pets? (I have two bunnies, and she has two rats and two mice to move) She will freak out!

[Dia]

Re: moving out - You can continue MC while living separately if you want.

Re: D - yes.

Tip: you can always sign the lease, take occupancy and not tell him for a few days while you move a few strategic things.

Example: leave enough stuff in the closets and drawers to avoid suspicion, but move some of it to the new place to prepare the way. Buy new pet food, bedding, litter etc. and take it to the new place while you use up the last of the old stuff at the old place.

Dishes or small appliances in the backs of cupboards - move them but leave the obvious, frequently used things in place until the last minute.

If there's stuff you need to sort and throw away, do that now, covertly.

[undrdg]

spybunny
I have read your sitch. its def a tough one. Then again, all of our sitches are tough. Its how we deal with them that makes us who we are.
Do you love your husband? If so, there is hope. The swinging thing, is def a challenge, but not impossible to overcome.

[Kimmie Lee]

I couldn't disagree more.

The swinging thing is a lot more than just a "challenge." It is a sick, abusive addiction that is demoralizing.

She needs to get out. Now.

[SpyBunny]

I had my appointment last night with the IC, and I am amazed how helpful it has been to see her in conjunction with the MC. I think I have a game plan now, so I have calmed down in that regard, but I still feel like a mess. Like so many others here, I can’t believe what my marriage has come down to.

My IC had a discussion with the MC on Monday after I had requested that he contact her. She assured me last night that the MC totally “gets it” as to what is going on in our M. He can tell that I have done a lot of hard work in the last few months- he is not blind to H’s abusive behaviors, and was actually was a bit concerned that the IC was encouraging me to stay in the M even if I shouldn’t be. She told him that she was supporting me in my decision to make sure I have tried everything in my power to make this M work, so that when I leave, I can close the door on it relatively peacefully. They are both on the same page that the goal is the health and welfare of each of us, and if the M can be saved in the process, great- if not, I at least have to take care of myself. The chances of the M being saved at this point are practically nil for me- next Thursday is the “are we going to make it or break it” appointment. I’m not signing anything until after that, most likely that Sat., 10/10 with a possession date of 10/14. She also suggested informing H of the move out date and itemization of what I’m taking ahead of time, and that the MC could help us with that.

I also discussed H’s infidelity with the IC lat night. She is amazed by my lack of reaction to it. She said she had two new clients in the day prior, both of whom were dealing with cheating husbands, and they were falling apart. I informed her I found out about H’s cheating at the tail end of He!! Night, and I was already beyond broken emotionally by then- the cheating just got added to the sh!t pile I was already dealing with. A few years later, I finally asked him a few things about it- up until then, all I knew was that they were both co-workers. I never asked their names, but rather if I had met them previously, if they had been to any of our parties, are they still working at Big Corp, does H have any contact with them at work, was anyone else there aware of what had gone on? The answer was “no” on all accounts. I still wasn’t angry at that point, and I guess I’m still not dealing with that part of it. I know I’m going to have a big torrent of emotions to deal with at some point.

While I was home yesterday, I downloaded paystubs, tax returns, account numbers and passwords, etc. I was hoping to do the digital pics also but there are just way too many, I’m going to have to figure something else out for those- maybe one of those external hard drives. Then I had this kick in the @ss- I was also organizing some old papers and discovered some old love letters that H wrote me 21 years ago. I forgot that I had stashed them in that drawer. We were newly engaged when he wrote them and he was commuting from NE Ohio to a job in NJ. There is no way I could ever imagine him saying those things again. He was such a different person back then- warm, affectionate, caring. He developed a really hard edge over the years- my family has noticed and commented on his changes over the years.

That’s it for now, and thanks for listening. I’ll let you know how it goes next week. This is going to be a looonnng week until then!

[healthydad]

Hi SB,

Good to see that your IC and MC are on the same page - and both seem concerned for you - as I think they should be. I should have mentioned earlier that when my STBX and I first went to MC, it was a very similar experience - our MC went out of her way to try and win STBX's trust - though in my case, it was primarily at my expense - finally capped off with MC telling STBX that my issues were what pushed her into having an affair...so...sometimes even the best of intentions can backfire a bit with an MC.

Good idea to get a portable hard drive - they're so much cheaper now - and just a super-convenient way to take your vital information with you anywhere.

I also want to offer some unsolicited thoughts...your M is not the problem...and even if your H offers to address all the issues that you bring up in terms of why you are unhappy with your M - that will not solve the problem...From all that you've written about your H, he has a lot of work to do on himself - and he's unwilling to do that work, then I just can't see how any surface improvements in your M would be lasting.

How is your D doing? Have you decided how to approach the possibility of a move with her? What is your H's relationship with the kids like these days?

Hang in there, SB. But please remember that it can be very hard to leave an emotionally abusive relationship...but it is doable.

-Carlos.