Can't feel too good to give advice if the recipient ignores it. Sigh.
I'm feeling fine myself. I'm just bummed for you that it is not registering. I think you are really making it harder than it needs to be. No judgement, I've been there...it is just a very tough place to be (like looking for a corner in a round room).
Maybe if she just told me exactly where she is I could be OK with that?
How much clearer can this be made for you?? She is struggling. She doesn't know exactly where she's at. She just knows that she associates pain with you. She is not on some perch masterminding. I'm projecting here but I think if you can empathize with my sitch, you can get a glimpse into what she is experiencing.
Why is this not registering for you?
And, you keep pushing...
If D is what you want, then cut off all contact and do it. Stop trying to force her to reveal what she a) probably doesn't even know b) doesn't feel safe sharing with you
You are giving her very little choice with this tactic.
Quote:
Am I trying to find logic and order where there is none?
There is order and logic here. You just want things to be your way. So how would one see the order and logic? (Hint: re-read your thread.)
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I like the gist of your email, but I think it was a little vague. You mentioned a problem, but provided no concrete resolutions.
What exactly was unhealthy? What issue needs to be discussed that needs resolution? Is it an issue that BOTH of you need resolution or just you? Since you didn't address a specific issue that both of you agreed is a problem, then you just continue a pointless conversation.
Although it's good to be honest about how you feel, you sort of accused her of being the problem:
Quote:
I feel that you are deliberately avoiding me. What I’m getting from you is the “talk to the hand” response.
Perhaps a better way of saying that is this: "I feel like you're avoiding me - perhaps the way we're approaching conversations is not allowing us to really hear each other."
Quote:
I'm sorry you're feeling that way.
This is lame, it puts the blame on her for feeling a certain way - try: "I'm sorry I caused you to feel like you had to be on eggshells." Take some personal responsibility for it.
Again, you pointed out a problem, but you put the blame on her, and you didn't provide any sort of opportunity for resolution. For example, if you know of a specific issue, why don't you address the issue, offer a solution, and let her think about it? If you're not hearing each other, how about offering to let her completely share her thoughts on the topic that is most pressing to her? I mean, you don't open your mouth a single time. Take notes, and ask her what she thinks the best resolution is - even if you totally disagree with it. Then thank her for her thoughts, and let her know you'd like some time to really digest it. It'll be hard - I can remember literally biting my tongue until it almost bled!
I can understand the frustration in your mind of doing nothing! I'm the type of person that hates to just let stuff lie, but sometimes that's exactly what needs to happen.
aliveandkicking has poignantly detailed what a vulnerable place it is - if your W still has feelings for you, and your coming back has stirred those up, imagine how out of control she feels!
It is my opinion that time does heal wounds - but perhaps you've come and ripped the scars open at this point? Trust can not be built by any specific actions. You can't ask for trust, it must be given, and it must be given over a period of time. It is built, brick-by-brick. You can't just slam a wall in place, you must put on a brick, mortar it down, and move to the next. Then you must wait for the mortar to dry, then you must test the wall to make sure it is strong.
One final suggestion - I would suggest posting your emails on here for perusal. I remember doing that, and I ended up not sending about 95% of what I wanted to send!
So how can I follow up that email to let her know that I get she has already expressed her wishes and desires and I will leave her be, not push for more discussion?
BTW. I tried really hard to take the emotion out of that email, to not make it about me, and to be fair. If thats my best, I have to wonder.
AKA: "Ben the school teacher" --- Me:45, W:41 | Ds:10,12&14 | M:18, T:20 Me: MLC+PA+WAS+Separated 10/08 My Request to Reconcile Denied 7/09 W w/OM 6/09-11/09
Don't follow it up! Just leave her be! You don't have to tell her that, she'll figure it out in a couple of days. You have said lots of words up to this point, and have any of them worked? Just stop having the discussions - she'll also figure that out. It'll take some time.
I can just about guarantee, if she has feelings, she'll contact you.
I'm not bashing the intent of your email - I'm really not, but if you can take the focus of off the problem, and put that energy into solutions, you'll get somewhere.
The problem is that right now, your solution is time and trust - both of which are going to take a long time to build. Can you just do that? Leave things alone?
Start timing yourself - let's go for a day. When the alarm goes off tomorrow, let's go for day 2.
I remember doing this, and through day 12 for me, it was rough, and day 13 was a ripper. But day 28 was awesome, sunshine, happiness, and freedom. I loved my wife more on day 28 than I did on day 12!
You asked for some specificity after our talk the other night. I don’t have much time right now but wanted to share one of the things that I think is really hurting us. Basically we’re not having any good healthy conversations. I feel that you are deliberately avoiding me. What I’m getting from you is the “talk to the hand” response. You mentioned that you felt I wasn’t hearing you/getting it when we were having conversations and you were consequently afraid to do or say anything for fear of sending the wrong message. I’m sorry you’re feeling that way. That has to be a crappy feeling. I honestly don’t recall us having any healthy conversations (started with a purpose and ended with some resolution) that we could point back to and say one way or the other that I was hearing you or you me.
-rsf
Dear W,
There is nothing of greater importance to me than our ability to keep open our lines of communication. Although my time is short right now, I intend to come back to you with some thoughts and answers to the queries that you posed to me the other day. I know you are going through difficult times and, perhaps, even find it difficult to speak with me, but, I want you to know that I am always here to listen. It is my intent that our conversations will become more productive over time and, in fact, even more interesting and desirable as we work through this together.
FIB for rsf
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
"I'm sorry. I'm sure that when you are ready to discuss this, you will initiate the conversation.
I hope you have a great day."
RSF
That's what I would want to hear.
Or, if you just have to spew, something like this...
"I'm sorry, I keep pushing you to communicate. Obviously, that is not comfortable for you. So, I want to tell you where I'm at and you can do whatever you want with it. If you ever want to talk about it, I'm here.
I (fill in all about you, your experience, your POV, your sincere apology -not regret because you are a better man now, right????, tell her what your family means to you and what your vision of your R is...)
You asked for some specificity after our talk the other night. I don’t have much time right now but wanted to share one of the things that I think is really hurting us. Basically we’re not having any good healthy conversations. I feel that you are deliberately avoiding me. What I’m getting from you is the “talk to the hand” response. You mentioned that you felt I wasn’t hearing you/getting it when we were having conversations and you were consequently afraid to do or say anything for fear of sending the wrong message. I’m sorry you’re feeling that way. That has to be a crappy feeling. I honestly don’t recall us having any healthy conversations (started with a purpose and ended with some resolution) that we could point back to and say one way or the other that I was hearing you or you me.
-rsf
Dear W,
There is nothing of greater importance to me than our ability to keep open our lines of communication. Although my time is short right now, I intend to come back to you with some thoughts and answers to the queries that you posed to me the other day. I know you are going through difficult times and, perhaps, even find it difficult to speak with me, but, I want you to know that I am always here to listen. It is my intent that our conversations will become more productive over time and, in fact, even more interesting and desirable as we work through this together.
FIB for rsf
Too business-like and would weird me out...but I'm just a shmo.
Don't follow it up! Just leave her be! You don't have to tell her that, she'll figure it out in a couple of days. You have said lots of words up to this point, and have any of them worked? Just stop having the discussions - she'll also figure that out. It'll take some time.
I can just about guarantee, if she has feelings, she'll contact you.
I'm not bashing the intent of your email - I'm really not, but if you can take the focus of off the problem, and put that energy into solutions, you'll get somewhere.
The problem is that right now, your solution is time and trust - both of which are going to take a long time to build. Can you just do that? Leave things alone?
Start timing yourself - let's go for a day. When the alarm goes off tomorrow, let's go for day 2.
I remember doing this, and through day 12 for me, it was rough, and day 13 was a ripper. But day 28 was awesome, sunshine, happiness, and freedom. I loved my wife more on day 28 than I did on day 12!
BTW. I tried really hard to take the emotion out of that email, to not make it about me, and to be fair. If thats my best, I have to wonder.
What do you wonder??? Are you a man or a mouse?
RSF, I don't buy it. You've got it all. Smart, witty, sensitive, manly (the whole baseball thing)...even this sort of self-deprecating thing is a bit savvy. If you can't fool us here on a thread, let it go. I'm saying, you can do this, you are just having a tantrum cuz it's hard and then saying..."I suck."
No, you don't suck, you just don't want to do what is hardest for you to do. Exercise patience and restraint. This is the next level of your training Daniel son...wax on, wax off.
