H with 1foot out the door...LONG

[Stronger]

So you mean to tell me, you came home and saw his door shut and you thought that much about it?

Really?

Look....what do you want to do? If you want to get into bed with him, get into bed with him. If you want to give him his space, give him his space and sleep in another bed.

Do you realize the possibility he didn't even NOTICE he shut the door is almost 100%? He may have got up, the door was opened, he went to the crapper, did his business and then in a half sleep mode, kicked the door shut, not even thinking of what he was doing?

Then you come home and go back and forth over nothing?

Stop thinking so much about what he wants. What does Gina want? Does that cause a problem? Will his feelings be hurt?

Here's what I mean.

There's one diet coke left in the fridge....what does Gina want? Well, Gina is thirsty and wants that diet, but knows it's the last one. If Gina drinks it, will that cause a problem? Well Gina stands there and remembers H said this morning, "Oh, one diet coke left, I'll get some more on my way home." So guess what? You can drink the last diet coke because H already told you he would get more. And he does, so everyone's a winner.

What I'm saying is think about yourself here a bit, think about your own mental well being. Don't be selfish and bitchy but think about you too. If you KNOW H needs some space, just give it to him. Understand, it's not you. He just needs a break. And he doesn't want to hang out with his parents or other family or friends either, not just you. He doesn't want to think sometimes. Just like you sometimes want to be....and I mean just be, no thoughts, no stress, no agenda. Just be.

[ginab1966]

Stonger...and everyone.

Yes, I really thought that much about it. The sentance or two didn't even do justice to how much thought I gave it. The word in CoDA that we give to this type of thing is "emeshment". I have a very difficult time just seeing a sitch w/ H for what it is and just leave it at that. However, the thing that is most important is that I first think about how my actions will effect him and his mood. I have RARELY put my own needs, thoughts, feelings, wants first in any relationship I've ever been in. I work very hard to make sure everyone around me is happy with all their needs met. Then, when I don't get my needs met in return, I resent everyone and victimize myself. That's a very watered down version of one aspect of one of my character defects but, trust me, I do know how damaging my behavior is and I'm working my hiney off to try and change it. I'm definately MUCH better than where I was several months ago...believe it or not. I really do see where changing me is the key to all of this.

That said, I just wanted to share some things that are going on. This past weekend we had a wonderful family weekend and he even surprised me by creating a whole new bedroom for me and him. I went out with DD and came back to "our" bedroom. It's in a new room with different furniture. I was so touched and moved to tears and told him so.

Sunday he started playing this role playing game on the computer. He played from about 8pm until 11pm. Then yesterday he played from about 10am until 5pm and then 8 pm until 10:30. He is now on the game and has played from 8pm until now and will most likely play until bedtime. When I told my husband in March that our marriage was over, a big part of the issue was the time he has spent playing computer games. For years I have been ignored over these games. He has a VERY addictive personality and video games are his kryptonite. When he wanted to win me back he stopped playing all together for months. He canceled his World of Warcraft account, rarely plays his XBox...its been a HUGE change. Now, 1 and 1/2 days of pretty intense gaming. A lot of feelings are coming up in me right now and I know that I should verbalize them (per our therapist) but I also dont want to rock the boat and "piss" him off as Stonger said not to do. Right now I'm going about my night acting like everything is terrific. I'm doing laundry, watching TV, going on the computer. I want to talk about it calmly but I know it will get into R talk and I am not supposed to be doing that either. Retro is 2 weeks away and I'm hoping I can bring some stuff on the table then. The only way that I can really help you guys to understand what I'm feeling is if you can imagine an alcoholic in recovery and then his wife comes home and sees a beer in front of him and he proceeds to drink a six pack. Now, I've been in recovery long enough to know that I cannot become the co-addict. It's just hard right now and I'm feeling so many emotions. Mostly fear....that I am going to do all this work to save my marriage only to have the marriage that was so broken (and left me so broken) that I thought my only choice was to leave. Luckily, I found the brains that I lost when I left and came back but ....I'm just in a very weird place right now. I know that I love him but I don't love this behavior. To love completely, do I have to accept this as part of the deal? I mean, do I just say to myself, "Gina, look, he could be with another woman or out at a bar right now. He's right behing you playing a computer game. So he didn't even kiss his kid goodnight or barely utter two words to you all day. He's here and in the same house...what more do you want?" Because in all honesty I want a heck of a lot more than that. I want an emotionally present partner. Not perfect, not to be at my beck and call...but emotionally present at least most of the time. I've looked and looked at DB book tonight and don't see anything that really pertains to this. So, I'm going to do the one thing that I think I should do...practice self care. I"m going upstairs, painting my toenails and giving myself a mini-facial. Normally, I would go up and eat...but that's just turning in on myself. See, when he does this it makes me feel very ignored and alone and I take it personally. Luckily, I have a sane part of me that knows it's not about me at all. So, I'm going to control the one thing that I can and be good to myself.

Stronger...thanks for being candid and a straight shooter. I love honesty. There is a saying in CoDA..that you're only as sick as your secrets. Lies can't hide if truth is shining down on them. You're advice is golden!!

Gina B

[ginab1966]

I would love to hear from anyone that has had to deal with a spouse with an Internet/Gaming addiction. What have you done/said? How do you handle the endless hours of them stareing at a computer screen. He was on from 5-10pm last night..AGAIN. 4th night in a row. He did come to bed with me and cuddled and I was down in the computer room with him and we did chat from time to time but he was pretty locked into that game. I had a girls night out and he said he was going to work on the car so my mom picked DD up from daycare and keep her until he picked her up. I don't think he worked on the car at all (told me he did though) and it's my gut instinct (based on years of past behavior) that he kept DD at Mom's and played this game until he picked her up at 7pm, put her to bed and went right back down on the computer game.

I'm just really confused and torn. I am torn because I need him to understand that I am not ok with the amount of time he's been spending on the computer but I need to say it in a way that's not going to blow things out of the water either. Everyone is telling me to take care of myself and my needs and my issues and one of my issues is that I don't voice my needss or wants. However, I've just gotten him to re-engage a tiny bit and I don't want to take 15 steps back by bringing up one of our hot button topics like the computer use. This is probably our biggest issue in our relationship. It's VERY deep-seeded. Any advice would be great.

Gina B

[Looking_For_Help]

Hi Gina,

We sure would like to here from you. Hope all is well.

-LFH

[ginab1966]

Hi everyone:

I promised to come on here and post about my Retrouvaille experience after I returned. I know that I devoured any Retrouvaille post that I could get my hands on, looking for signs of hope. So, here it goes….

I want to start by saying that my husband agreed to go, had a pretty decent attitude going into the weekend but definitely was not going for the same reasons I was. When I asked him why agreed he told me it was because I asked him to go. Of course I wanted to hear that it was because his marriage meant everything to him and that saving it was his top priority and on and on. However, I stepped back and realized he was going and that’s all that I could ask for. Who cares why he was going?

During the end of the weekend, the facilitators ask you to please not give away the true ins and outs of what goes on during the weekend. Now that I’ve been, I absolutely see the value in this. So, without going into real detail, I will sort of give you a Cliffs Notes version and just my personal feelings about the whole thing.

I was really pinning all of my hopes and dreams on this weekend. I knew that was not emotionally smart of me but it was just really hard not to. I imagined that somewhere in the weekend, my H would have this ah-ha moment and tell me he loved me more than life and wanted our marriage to last forever and would do everything he could to make that happen. Um…..that never happened. Not even close. I’m not saying that it can’t happen that way for some couples but it didn’t for me. However, what I walked way with, on a personal/individual level, is actually more valuable and powerful than what I hoped would happen between H and I. I mean that with all sincerity. Sara talks about miracles on the weekend and I experienced one. Just not in the way I thought I would. But, that’s just God for you. He does everything in his own time, in his own way and if you open yourself up to receive his grace, it will come to you. You just have to accept it and not lament what you didn’t get. Luckily, I was able to do that.

Our weekend was at a hotel and we were in a workshop was held in a conference room. The entire purpose of this weekend is to help spouses communicate better, more effectively and with more love. They teach you a technique called “Dialogue”. It’s really about focusing on your feelings and communicating those feelings without blame, garbage dumping or judgment. That means you get heard in a non judgmental way and so does your spouse. This technique is the springboard for how the rest of the post sessions will be facilitated. Dialogue is used as the main tool and will be used in each of the post sessions. That’s why they focus and entire weekend around it. The Retrouvaille community truly believes that being heard and understood fully is the same as being loved. Several couples give presentations all throughout the weekend and share with you the good, bad and ugly of their relationships. It’s amazing how open and honest they all are. They talk about sex, drug use, etc. It’s all laid out for everyone to hear. On our weekend, each of the couples dealt with infidelity and one dealt with infidelity and some pretty serious emotional abuse. One of them dealt with multiple infidelities and I sat listening and wondering how on earth they came out on the other side as a happy well adjusted couple. Listening to them can’t help but give you hope. It also make you know how broken your relationship is and can be a double edged sword.

This is not meant to be a socializing meet & greet type of atmosphere. You are there to work on your marriage and you will work very, very hard. The experience is both tiring and draining. You will be forced to take a really hard look at yourself and the way that you contribute to the issues in your marriage. You will have a chance to socialize with the other couples at meals and I found this very helpful because some were open enough to share their struggles and it’s nice to know you aren’t alone.

I will now give you the straight scoop on the religious aspect of the program. I’m a Christian who was raised Catholic but no longer practice the Catholic faith. I knew I would be coming on here and posting so I tried to look at the religious part from all sides. This I my take….if your are agnostic and have a real issue with God, faith or religion…there will be moments of discomfort. God and Christ were spoken about more than I thought they would be. Personally, I loved it. It brought home some truths that I had been searching out and solidified why I came back to my marriage after I WAW.

There were moments in the weekend that I actually wanted to give up and throw I the towel. Those moments involved me hearing from my husband that he’s not nearly as far along in the reconciliation as I thought he was. Divorce is most definitely still on the table in a big way. But, I prayed a lot and came to the realization that it’s ok that he’s not where I am. Do I like it? No, not one bit. But, it’s where we are at and I have to accept it, hear his concerns, listen to his feelings and do the work that I need to do on myself despite wanting to blame him for everything.

This is the revelation that I came away with this weekend. I wrote this in another person’s post that I respond to frequently. First, I'm beginning to think that my husband is in MLC. I believe that me leaving, coupled with a shakey at best sense of self esteem is what set it off. I am not blaming myself in any way, I'm just saying that I believe these were the triggers. Right now, I know H is staying because of his greater sense of obligation as a father. Before this weekend I found every reason to be upset with that. My sense of pride mostly. I had the thought that if I wasn't a reason for staying and I wasn't getting what I needed....that's it. Actually the reason I became a WAW was because I was so horribly ignored, pushed aside, trampled on, passed over, etc. I couldn't take it. It was utterly and completely unacceptable to me and it made me feel so horrible about myself that, at times, I couldn't breath. I deserved better and I was going to get better..period. Once I moved out, realized the impact on my daughter and realized how un-Christian I as being I came back. I never came back for him. I knew I as coming back to the same man I left. Actually, I was coming back to worse. He had now had a physical affair, was telling me he wanted a divorce and told me he didn't love me and there was no hope at least twice a day. I still came back. Why? Because I love him. I mean, really, really love him. I am trying to love him as God loves me. Unconditionally...when I take his name in vain, ignore him, curse at him, don't believe in him, question his motives and deny his existance. My God loves me no matter what I do and he wants me to love all people the same way...including my husband. Now, please don't think I"m comparing myself to God but I really am doing my best to keep this in the forefront of my mind while working on my marriage. Also don't think this is some holier than thow speech...it's not..I'm just telling you how I'm dealing with my spouses rollercoaster behavior. No matter what is going on, I act loving. Sometimes that might mean that I have to give space and walk away. Sometimes that might mean that I have to listen to things that are hurtful and not react. Does this mean that I'm being a doormat? No. Here is an example....(H)"Gina, I am giving you all I have. To be honest, I rather be with anyone else, somewhere else doing something else. You are the last person on earth that I want to be with..but I'm here" (me)" You have told me how unconnected you are and expressed how hard it is to be here for you. I appreciate that conflict and the stress it must cause you. But,Honey, I need to ask you to do me a favor if you can. I would appreciate it if you stopped telling me. I hear you, I understand and I get it. Really, I do. Continually telling me is extremely hurtful and I know that isn't your intention. So, before you say something like this next time, just remember that I understand and it's very, very hurtful to me." Since I have said that, the only time that I've heard anything even remotely close to this was this past weekend. There is a quote that I heard and it goes "The most important marriage skill is listening to your partner in a way that they can't possibly doubt that you love them.". In my response, he knew he was heard and my response was loving and firm. Now, many would say I was being a doormat but I completely disagree. My husband has to answer a question this weekend that said "I need your help specifically in the area of________". He was to answer the question asking me for help. He asked me to be patient and love him unconditionally while he decided if he wants to love me or not. When I read that, I thought that I was going to vomit. I thought we were past that. He is wearing a wedding ring again, he tells me he loves me in the morning, etc. I realized I'm not really a lot further than I was before. I had to respond and I did so with as much love as I possibly could muster. We were leaving the room and we got down to the conference room and I brought him a coffee...after that...I brought him coffee and some snacks. He looked at me, kissed me and held my hand. That was the first time we had physical contact all weekend. I can't help but think that my calm, loving, strong response helped that kiss come to the surface. I wasn't being a doormat, I was being his wife, the one who said in her vows "I want to join myself with you because you thank God for me and you are someone for whom I thank God. That love I was showing was God's love coming through me to him. It was hard to do but felt soooo good at the same time. I felt pure and clean and holy. I know that's deep and kind of corny but it's true.

The bottom line is that it was worth every minute of me going. I saw couples that were healed. Any miracles? It’s hard to tell but I consider what I got out of it as a miracle. Good luck to all who go and I’ll be praying that you get your own miracle from it.

May God bless you richly.

Gina B

[givingitmyall]

Great post Gina.

I will be looking into this very soon.

[Looking_For_Help]

Hi Gina,

I’m glad that Retrouvaille was worth every minute for you. Where do you and your husband go from here? Will you be attending the post-session workshops? I pray that your husband decides to love you.

I’m like you where I’m placing all of my eggs into the Retrouvaille basket. I know this is not wise, but I currently think that Retro is my last resort. I’m praying for a miracle to happen. Please stop by my thread, I’d love to hear from you.

Kind Regards,
LFH

[ginab1966]

Ok...time to get a bit real about Retrou. One of your assignmets is to keep things "going" with the post sessions and the dialogue. It's recommended and absolutely not something you HAVE to do but I can see, for us, it is imperative that we continue with the Dialogue technique. Our next post session is this Saturday and we've been given "homework" to do. We are supposed to dialogue each night. I have had to remind H each night about the dialogue session and he is just phoning it in. His heart isn't even close to being in it. It's supposed to be 20 min. You write for 10 and then dialogue for 10. Last night our dialogue lasted 30 seconds at best. I had to pry him off the computer game to come upstairs and do it and then he spent his 30 seconds and then went back downstairs for the rest of the night. When he went back downstairs I will admitt that I sat at the table and just cried. Not sobbing or anything but quiet tears of utter frustration. I continually feel like I'm doing this alone. Like I'm the only one rowing. It's hard. I am doing my very best to concentrate on the fact that he has agreed to go to the post sessions and that he DID come up and at least participated in the dialogue no matter how lame his participation was. I need to remember that he's giving me what he is willing to give me right now and I just have to be patient, accept it and not wrap my whole worlds happiness into him. I need to continue to GAL. I realized that last night at the table. I sort of backslid a bit and now I have to dig deep and GAL. It's just so hard with a 4 year old. H gets very resentful when I'm out all the time. Such as...I have a going away thing for a co-worker after work tomorrow night and then I have CoDA meetings Friday night. That means he will have to put D to bed two nights in a row. He's not going to be happy...not one little bit. So, that makes GAL'ing a bit harder.

I'm ok...reality is just setting in after being on the pink cloud of the weekend. I just have to keep things in perspective and not become emotional.

Gina B

[Looking_For_Help]

Hi Gina,

I'm sorry that your husband is not participating in the manner you wish. Give it some more time...be patient. Look for "small improvements" and you keep doing the work. I hope he changes. If he doesn't, what is your gameplan?

Best wishes,
LFH

[ginab1966]

Ok...he's already in bed. Spent the night on the computer and went to bed. Didn't even do the Dialogue question that Retrou asked us to do. Said he didn't know what you write so he didn't do it. This is really hard. Really, it is. I could scream I am so frustrated right now. Crying again. I am going to say this....I want a husband who treats me like I matter. I want a husband who has some emotional depth. I want a husband who cherishes me. I want to be able to support my spouse and talk to him and build a dream together and grow in love together. Do I want a fairytale??? NO!! I"m very real with how hard I know a relationship is and how hard it can get..but I do have needs. I am able to determine when one of my needs is born out of my codependancy and when its legit. The above needs are legit. I, however, have a husband that is not giving me any of these things right now and may never be able to. I love him and I'm committed to keeping my end of the commitment up. I cannot imagine doing this forever. Heck, I can't even imagine doing this until next week. But, I don't have to. I will just do this for tonight and then tomorrow I will see what that day brings and take that one as it comes. Minute by minute if I have to.

Please pray for me/us. Really, this is gonig to take a miracle.

Gina B