Hi Hoping, I wish I could take credit for that, but I think T2 is the one that wrote it. It really was awesome. I think I need to memorize it, but I swore off R talks for quite some time. I had two or 3 in 2 weeks time and it's got him spooked. He's pretty distant, and I'm my same loving self. It sure would be nice to have it reciprocated. The trip to Colorado is still on,so I don't want to blow it. There's just no intimacy in his contact with me right now. I think he's trying to get the feelings back, but wonders if he can. I wonder too. When we part I usually tell him I love him,and he says it back. There's been a few times he's told me first, but it's been a few weeks now. He just kinda shut down for some reason. I always wonder if he's talking to the OW. He says he's not had any contact with her at all. Can I believe him when he tells me he doesn't love her, and will tell her if she ever calls him that he cannot have any contact with her? I think if he wanted her, he would have asked me for a D by now. He never has. He really wants to love me and have our family back together again.He has told me that much. I know its the lack of feeling he has for me that's preventing it. He'll act like he's in love with me for a few days then back off. What's up with that?? T2, why do you think your H started really caring again? I'm not sure how to act around him. Do I leave him alone, or keep "acting as if" things will be fine? I'm starved for love and attention. Rachael
Ya know gang, back on the 12th when I listed the things I wanted to hear my H say and stuff, several of you asked if my H would have been prone to say any of that sort of thing prior to all this insanity in our lives. I quickly answered no...at least I think I did...but, in the back of my mind I was telling myself "he should say and do it all anyway."
I've had a few days to think about that question of whether or not it's realistic for me to expect to "hear" the words I want to hear from him or not. I've come to the conclusion that I'm really setting myself up for a major disappointment if I hold out for any of it, on my terms.
I guess because I witnessed my H become a man I'd never seen before, or ever imagined he could be (when he went Alien)...I allowed myself to believe that IF he was capable of becoming a complete and total stranger to me while he was off and running on his self gratification bent, that he should also be capable of becoming "Mr. Perfect" to me once he was "cured" of his "temporary insanity." BOY WAS I WRONG.
It has occured to me, much to my disappointment, that the guy I'm getting back now is THE SAME GUY that left on his trip to Never-Never Land.
The guy that comes home after work now and turns on Bill O'Reilly, the guy that starts the grill so we can make dinner, the guy that makes sure everyone in the family has a car that's running in tip top shape, that keeps the lawn mowed and occassionally the beds made, IS the 'old guy.'
There was never any "just for the hell of flowers" or love notes posted to the bathroom mirror or professions of love on bended knee. Not from this guy....
This guy that I had begun not to love, not to care about, not to "need" a year before the first A started, was just a guy that did what HE thought being a 'good husband' was suppose to do. He fixed "things." He called me "Pal." He did almost anything I asked him to, even if he had a puss on when he did it. Sometimes he was thoughtless and cranky. Sometimes he barked before he thought...sometimes, no often, he put his 'wants' first.
The truth is, my H is really THAT guy and THAT guy is back. At least it looks like he is for the most part.
I think the most important thing I have to do right now is decide if this guy who lays on the couch or spends an entire Saturday putzing around in the yard instead of strolling along some beach holding my hand is a guy that I can accept just the way he is, warts, shortcomings and all.
For over 20 years I accepted that 'so-so' guy. I accepted that I'd only get flowers on my B-day, Anniv. or some other Hallmark occassion....until one day MY fantasy of a Knight In Shining Armor got the best of me and I began picking him apart in my mind and building that great wall of China between us....That wall of resentment for unspoken disappointments was eventually so tall, that rather than attempt to climb over it or dig under it...my H decided to find something on his side of it that would fill in the holes of his emotional and physical needs.
I now have to pay the price for that wall I built, I don't excuse HIM his choices (he could have bought a sledge hammer but didn't..that is to say there were a lot of things he could have tried to get me to tear it down, but didn't) BUT, I also have to ask myself, what did I DO to tear that wall down...the truth is NOTHING.
So here I am today, my H and I, having to tear down all the old resentments, rake up all the shattered pieces of our life together and try to clean up the damage and build a new wall, but this time, around us. One that will keep us in there together and all the sadness, temptations and demons of the outer world at bay.
Can someone loan me wheel barrel? We have a lot of trash to haul away. T2
I love the wall analogy! I always think of us having a wall around each of us. But we are trying to tear them down, but use the same bricks to build a bridge back to each ohter.
T2~ Your post made me cry...of course everything is making me cry tonight!
Quote: I think the most important thing I have to do right now is decide if this guy who lays on the couch or spends an entire Saturday putzing around in the yard instead of strolling along some beach holding my hand is a guy that I can accept just the way he is, warts, shortcomings and all.
This is so true and such good food for thought. It made me realize how much my H changed before I lost interest in trying anymore. He became some one I didn't really want to be married to anymore. My question is...how do I get the "good memories" (of when we were happy) out of my head?? I keep worrying that he will change back into that guy but by then it will be too late for us.. .
Take your second chance, and RUN WITH IT, T2!!!!!!!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
T2, You pretty much summed up trying to piece after they come home. I think we do have unrealistic expectations of them. Are WE the beautiful maidens that meets their every need? I think not. We are so busy licking our wounds and anaylizing every thing they say and do or DON'T do that we forget to look inward. I know I'm guilty of it. My H came back and left again just like yours T2.
I don't think we were ready for the intense feelings that came along with reconciliation. In that reconciliation there are many feelings of resentment and mistrust. SO much to sort through. We know how we feel, but do we know what their feeling? Besides guilt? I think they have to fall in love with us all over again, and I think they make a choice to do that in their head before they fully feel it in their hearts. That could be the reason we think they are not "fully here" when they come back. My H says I have no idea what he felt that led him to the A. He is also quick to say there can be no justification for his poor choice. They ahve their reasons for why the A's happened, but they know now that they really messed up. He's right to a point. I can never fully know how he felt.
It must have been intense though and VERY strong. My H is not the type to do this. I think it's a combination of MLC and a break down in the M, where they don't feel connected to us anymore and they don't know how to fix it. Men are fixers, but most won't voice their needs or feelings so we have no idea how intense they feel this void in their lives. Not until the bombs hit. Its all SO destructive. It's like trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. First you have to find all the peices and fit them all together. NO easy task. I know my H's shortcomings. I know what to expect if (when?) he comes back this time. He sounds pretty much like T2's H,but a little more romantic (when he wants to be). Ok, now think about this. We are defining our H's and talking about what they lack. What if we had to listen to them defining us to each other. What would they say? Probably that they can't believe we stuck by them, but what else? What about the way we treat them? What about meeting their needs? Truthfully, I never really thought about it this way until now. I figured he owes me after all he's done, that its time for him to think about ME and MY needs. I thought that way before he left too. I thought he should act the way I wanted him to act towards me. When he didn't, the resentment built up until communication broke down. I don't want to make the same mistakes I made before.
In order NOT to do that, I HAVE to change me and my expectations IF I want him back. If nothing changes, then nothing will change. I don't think any of us want that. We don't want to feel alienated from them again. (NOT ALL OUR FAULT BY A LONGSHOT!) We're looking for changes in them when they come back. I think the best way to change the way a person treats you is to change the way you treat them. SOMEONE has to do SOMETHING different. It might have to be us,and I know it's NOT FAIR, but once again, we have to be the strong ones that will strive for making the lasting changes that will work to the good of our M. Am I making sense here? I just turned the way we think around to get a different perspective. After all, isn't that what we want? Something different and better than what we had? I guess its something to think about anyway. Rachael
Quote: I think they make a choice to do that in their head before they fully feel it in their hearts.
I think you're absolutely right AND I think that on some level we're aware of that and resent it because WE fantasize that they should be eternally grateful to us for allowing them to come home when they're really not sure that it's even what they REALLY want to do given what they've done.
Quote: Men are fixers, but most won't voice their needs or feelings so we have no idea how intense they feel this void in their lives.
Absolutely!!!
And another pearl Rach:
Quote: I think the best way to change the way a person treats you is to change the way you treat them.
Quote: I thought he should act the way I wanted him to act towards me. When he didn't, the resentment built up until communication broke down. I don't want to make the same mistakes I made before.
This is where I still get stuck sometimes even though I find I'm MUCH better than pre-bomb. Ha...I'm even sort of stuck there today (well, last night)...feeling a bit tired, wanted MY needs (for conversation, for attention in this case) to be met the way that I wanted them met (and NOW, gosh darn it). I still feel some of that residue this morning...but your post has reminded me to take a step back, maybe figure out how I can meet some of my own needs, maybe ask directly for what I need, etc.
Quote: SOMEONE has to do SOMETHING different. It might have to be us,and I know it's NOT FAIR, but once again, we have to be the strong ones that will strive for making the lasting changes that will work to the good of our M.
Yup! Someone has to break the cycle...might as well be us while we're thinking about it!
Quote: Am I making sense here?
Perfectly.
Great, great post.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: Ok, now think about this. We are defining our H's and talking about what they lack. What if we had to listen to them defining us to each other. What would they say? Probably that they can't believe we stuck by them, but what else? What about the way we treat them? What about meeting their needs? don't think I want to be there for that discussion Truthfully, I never really thought about it this way until now. I figured he owes me after all he's done, that its time for him to think about ME and MY needs. this will be good to remember if my H comes back, because part of me is thinking oh yeah he's going to owe me big time! I thought that way before he left too. I thought he should act the way I wanted him to act towards me. When he didn't, the resentment built up until communication broke down. I don't want to make the same mistakes I made before.
In order NOT to do that, I HAVE to change me and my expectations IF I want him back. there's that word expectation again, I really have to get over those, they are a roadblock If nothing changes, then nothing will change. I don't think any of us want that. We don't want to feel alienated from them again. Goal: to do all I can to make this NOT happen again, I know better now (NOT ALL OUR FAULT BY A LONGSHOT!)
Working on getting him back is where a lot of my energy has been going these last few months. If/when he does come back AM I going to be able to do what needs to be done, part of me is scared that he will come back!
Quote: We're looking for changes in them when they come back. I think the best way to change the way a person treats you is to change the way you treat them. SOMEONE has to do SOMETHING different. It might have to be us,and I know it's NOT FAIR, but once again, we have to be the strong ones that will strive for making the lasting changes that will work to the good of our M. Am I making sense here? absolutely, in fact way too much sense for me! I just turned the way we think around to get a different perspective. After all, isn't that what we want? Something different and better than what we had? I refuse to go back, only forward if/when H comes back, need to keep telling myself that, too.
I hear you Racheal, thanks for sharing your insights.
