My Intro: Thanks for Reading!

[JayMan]

Two wrongs don't make a right, and living in the past never solves anything.

My post was based on current times - and the assumption that his mistake will never be an option to him again, and he is making steps towards making his failings right.

I agree on the current point - there do need to be clearly established times, but I think it's most important for the kids, not either adult. I don't even have a separation agreement, but we rarely, if ever deviate from our sharing times, and it has helped our kids a lot.

And of course, I'm a shmo as well!

[aliveandkicking]

My post was based on current times - and the assumption that his mistake will never be an option to him again, and he is making steps towards making his failings right.

Of course but when you say the kids will know the truth in the long run...isn't the truth that he left his family and cheated and she moved on with her life??? You can't live in the past but having nearly lost my mind and come back from the brink of being practically suicidal, would it be wrong for me to hesitate if my H decided on a dime that now that I was with OM, he wanted me back?

There just aren't words to describe what it feels like to be this vulnerable. And, I suspect as a woman it may be more challenging, seeing as we are a "dime a dozen." And don't tell me that kids are the same obstacle for single men with children as they are for single women.

She is terrified to make a choice but does not want to be an adulterer in the mean time. Really sad.

[JayMan]

I see your point, and it sucks. That's why affairs are never worth it. I thought she had an affair after he came back from his, not moved on - my apologies for misreading! I'll be better prepared...

I can see your point on the choice issue - on the flip side of that, as hard as I've worked on my marriage, my mind would run me ragged if my W ever came back - with all the concerns about whether W was over the A, would it happen again, aren't I smarter to just get out while the getting's good, and all that fun stuff.

Ain't relationships grand? Why do people do this to themselves!?!?

[aliveandkicking]

Ain't relationships grand? Why do people do this to themselves!?!?

Basically-

[RedSoxFan]

Hmmm...is it really fair to call her R with OM an "affair"??? I mean, her husband left, told her it was done, hooked up with OW. She finally moved on, hooked up with OM, said she wanted D (to make it not an "affair") and RSF asked her to hold off on the D which she obliged but then got sick of being treated as if she was cheating and being a bad mother so she asked again for D...

I started to write stuff here and you know what I just can't even bother. She definitely did not have an affair. I've assumed responsibility for all of it to the best of my ability. I just can't help but feel that if the tables were turned I'd be getting nailed for not divorcing before dating another person.
It's all pretty discouraging.

Anyhoo...JohnF, did you read his sitch? HE left the marriage.

Not that it makes so much difference except that the only thing worse than H leaving me, would be him coming back AFTER I've moved on and really connected with another man. Talk about torture. So, I'd be the one holding the key to my family's future? Nice. So, it is on her? Wow.

So why aren't you encouraging me to man-up and walk away?

I agree in essence, RSF, that you need to be in the present and set your plan accordingly. But, I don't see what you have learned from this if you insist that you are the kind of guy who makes a decision and sticks to it no matter what (hellloooo, you told her you were "done" and now look at you)...I see you as wanting what you want when you want it (not atypical) and I would bet that you will ebb and flow with this too. There are people here on the boards in the midst of their divorces who are reconnecting, going into counseling etc.

If it helps you to move on or feel better to proclaim that you are magically capable of turning off this flood of feelings and realizations you've had about your W then do it. I think it is more ego than anything which is ok too. No matter what, I think you need to detach and move on. Still, I hope that if a door opens for your M, you will see it and take the opportunity rather than dig your heals in about how you are not that kind of person.

Obviously anyone who makes a decision and sticks to it no matter the circumstance is either stupid or bigger than life. I'd like to think I'm neither. I guess none of us can know the others' struggles. For me I'm genuine and determined but I'm struggling to find my way through this.

[aliveandkicking]

RSF-

I started to write stuff here and you know what I just can't even bother. She definitely did not have an affair. I've assumed responsibility for all of it to the best of my ability. I just can't help but feel that if the tables were turned I'd be getting nailed for not divorcing before dating another person.
It's all pretty discouraging.

I'm on your side.

I was clarifying and responding to JohnF's post in which he referred to her "affair."

As far as you getting "nailed" if it were turned around. I will never judge anyone who has been left behind with children, gone through the hell of picking him/herself up and subsequently dated other people. I think bringing the kids around OP is a short-sighted and irresponsible move. But, if someone implied that I was out of line for dating after what I've been put through, well, let them live through it and then judge. I NEVER thought I would date while married. I was faithful for 14 years. But, my husband has been physically gone and living a "single" life for 10 months now. I have taken advice here to date (which is given to both men and women) and guess what? I went from overall feeling like a worn out hag who had no hope of ever being intimate with another man to feeling attractive and viable and that did wonders for me emotionally and has obviously attracted my H. And, while my kids will be no where near anyone else for a loooong time, if I found what I thought was a great man, I would definitely pursue the relationship. And, I wouldn't judge you if you did the same...I think it is optimal to get through the D before starting a new relationship for obvious reasons, but I refuse to judge.

So why aren't you encouraging me to man-up and walk away?

I am.

Obviously anyone who makes a decision and sticks to it no matter the circumstance is either stupid or bigger than life. I'd like to think I'm neither. I guess none of us can know the others' struggles. For me I'm genuine and determined but I'm struggling to find my way through this.

I think you, like many of us spend a lot of time focusing on the things that are not within your control and on the end result as opposed to what you have in front of you.

You can handle this more rationally if you take it one step at a time and be present. I think that you are impatient and a tad impulsive. Can you work on those things? Are those issues she complained about?

We can take the specific issues our spouses had with us and work on them regardless of whether it leads to reconciliation. Patience is not the same as settling or complacency, it is allowing time to reveal what the best outcome will be IMO.

[Dudess]

Hi RSF.
I know that your letter is not intended for actual delivery, however if it is possible that in future discussions with your W, you might say some of the same things, I just want to point out a couple of things that would really bug me if my H said them.(actually he does say things like that and I hate it)

I know that must have been one of the worst things a person could ever go through. I could never express to you how much I wish I had been able to avoid putting you through such an awful experience. In the end though, all I have to offer is my love and a heartfelt apology. From the bottom of my heart I’m so very sorry for what happened.

You were not "able to" make a different choice? Now maybe some of the things going on with you emotionally were unavoidable, but dude, you sure could have made the choice to keep your hands off another woman's body. Please don't try to duck responsibility by suggesting that you were not able to avoid causing your wife that pain.

I also realize that there was no way for you to compete with my depression and mid life crisis 11 months ago and I too realize there’s no way right now for old love (comprised of the nuts and bolts and ups and downs of real life) to compete with the fresh exhilarating euphoria of a new found relationship. If this is the path you need to find happiness I am now ready to let you go.

That may not be true for your wife. It is not true for everyone. If my H were to say something like that, I would greatly fear that if we got back together, he would choose the "fresh exhilarating euphoria" of a new woman, over the depth of committed love and his vows to me.

Just my two cents. I can tell that you love this woman and you never know, you might get another chance with her.

[aliveandkicking]

Interesting. If you are completely ready to go through with D, it might be worth a last letter getting it all out.

I think that would definitely work for me now (though I agree, don't say you weren't able to do things differently)...

However, if I had OM, I would want to be left alone to digest and make my decision and it would probably take me a while of being completely left alone by H. I would want it to feel clean and safe and like I could digest it all and be entitled to come to my own conclusion. She did come to her conclusion but I still feel that you never really backed off completely.

I would want the/a letter and I would want time to process it.

[RedSoxFan]

I don't have much to say. W and I met yesterday for an hour with IC for oldest daughter. Meeting was cordial and productive. Lots of tension and anger in the air between W and I. Got in our cars after and left. No discussions of any R issues.

The more I look at my situation and listen to feedback the more I'm moving toward pulling out for W's sake. The evidence seems to point at an irreconcilable situation given the mistakes I've made.

It's a little sad because no one here really knows the whole situation. I've gone out of my way to make sure I represent her in the best possible light. Anyway, I made the biggest mistake so I own the whole ball of wax. I need to just suck it up and take responsibility for that.

Maybe my moral compass is off or I have a character flaw but it just seems that I am never worthy of forgiveness.

[JayMan]

I apologize again for my earlier post - I missed the whole story, something that is a pet peeve of mine!

You are certainly worthy of forgiveness. I know a man that cheated on his wife once. He has said that, given the choice, to go back he would almost rather choose to die than to have that moment. Not only did it serve to reveal to him how pathetic affairs were, but also showed him how much he loved his wife, and satisfying his physical desires in return for losing his family was ridiculous.

He has been true for about 8 years I'm guessing, never has looked at another woman since.

If this is how YOU feel, you are absolutely worth forgiveness. You did screw up, royally. But, we all have - some just make adultery the "scarlet letter" - when, in my opinion, there are people that have sabotaged their marriages through not communicating, being distant, verbal/emotional/physical abuse, and so on.

You do reap what you sow - and maybe this is what God has for you. You can, at this point, handle it with grace and dignity. You can learn from it, become a better person - assume the mantle of being a man. And not a crotch-scratching, beer-guzzling, belching, hairy man, but a man who is worthy of respect and takes responsibility for his actions, and makes sure that such actions never occur again!