HOME AGAIN....ROUND 2

[Trying24now]

Hi Holding,

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

"He is also wondering about the happiness part. "
You're right, I know you're right.

"As a man, he may feel that he came back, so that in itself has shown you that he is over it... but for us, I don't think that is enough."
You're probably right on target there too

I did read After the Affair and, I gave it to him to read when I thought he and I were trying to reconcile back in Sept of last year. We were seeing a MC and he was chirping away during those sessions, crying, sharing, 'understanding'...and all the while screwing OW #2 . So I guess he didn't even attempt to 'read' the book, it was just another BS act to him that he was.

And, believe it or not, I do think of all of you when I post and that's why sometimes I beat myself for what I do post because I don't want my backslides and insecurities to mess with anyone elses resolve to succeed in reconciliation. I'm afraid I'm a good example of a BAD example of someone in reconciliation .
"Act as if"....I know that should be my mantra....I just wish I could dedicate myself to doing it.
T2

[Trying24now]

Hi Deb,

You are becoming my spiritual leader

YES, I do need duct tape. Please forward a case ASAP.

You are looking for a fight, you are angry he is doing nothing and you are doing all the work.

Yep, I think that's true. As someone said in an earlier post...I may be trying to sabotage this reconciliation so that I can have some control over it's outcome.

Ask him what he wants from you; meals, socks. Then compromise, You'll do "this" if he does "that".

Duh !!!! This hadn't occured to me. Guess it was to 'simple' for me to think up on my own...wasn't hard enough to figure out...I'm still missing the forest for all the trees that are in the way.

I will be waiting by the mailbox for the duct tape...BUT, if I see the lumber company coming with a load of 2X4s I'm running like hell.
T2

[holdingon]

sometimes I beat myself for what I do post

Hey, that's why we are here for you. If we didn't care, we wouldn't read your posts! You are not a bad example... you are in a difficult situation. You HAVE been doing ALL the work... heck, if it was up to him, the two of you wouldn't even be the two of you. Pretend he's a fish... you'd have to do all that work, too. So, you've got him hooked, you have to reel him in SLOWLY... you can't be jerking him in the boat. You had to be incredibly PATIENT to even get him to take the hook... and you are still, what, 13 days from the goal YOU set YOURSELF... in my opinion you are WAY ahead of the game. Take it easy. Make YOURSELF happy right now... don't make him have to do it. Show him how you want to be treated. But right now, be willing to help him carry his burden, not beat him over the head with it.

[holdingon]

WHY? Why now do we have to live only in the moment. Why now do we have to be grateful they have returned. Why do we now have to settle for less of a R than we had BEFORE things fell apart.

I guess it's this "settling" for a lesser relationship, one that doesn't take trust for granted, that makes me keep any hope of success at arms length.

I don't want to live without a sense of unquestioned commitment to our M for the rest of our lives.

You posted this on someone else's thread. You are looking WAY too far into the future... You ARE NOT going to settle for this. Your whole purpose to put up with all of your H's CRAP was to end up with an R BETTER than the one you had before. But, it is going to take TIME. I wish I knew how much (believe me, I wish I knew how much for ME, too...). Just HANG IN THERE. As EVERYONE tells me take one day at a time. Take it MOMENT by MOMENT if need be. Live in the MOMENT as Sage says.

[Trying24now]

Holding,

Thanks for that last post:

Pretend he's a fish... you'd have to do all that work, too. So, you've got him hooked, you have to reel him in SLOWLY... you can't be jerking him in the boat.

Just the imagery of that made me laugh out loud.

And it's a good analogy because I think I'm married to a 'cold fish' sometimes.

I have to tell you...you and DEB and my other friends on this BB are ruining the really terrific pity party I had going on for myself here.
Damn, you smart and wonderful women!!!
T2

[RMC]

T2,
Boy, do I know where your comin from!
I think I'm married to your husband's clone.
Seriously, our sitch's are so similar it's just downright weird.
There is that unspoken feeling you get when you get back together-the one where you think your husband is lying in wait for you to mess up. It's a tension between you that has to be dispelled sooner or later. Sooner, preferably.
I think it's very hard to come back together after a separation-ok, I know, it's where everyone on here wants to be and would love to have this problem. Truth is, we've moved from one phase of DBing on to phase 2. It's really no easier. Different, but not easier. It's nowhere near happily ever after yet. I would venture to say that most couples in this phase have the very same issues that you are finding so difficult to deal with.
Last time my H came back it was exactly as you said except we had sort of a honeymoon phase first.
All the fear and anger of the A was still in me and I couldn't talk to him about it. It festered in me like a volcano waiting to errupt. I'm going to be positive here, because it's just too darn easy to be negative in this phase.
He IS seeing if he made the right choice, I'm sure in his own way he IS kinda sorta testing you. You most certainly are testing him, and he's not doing so hot.
This time is kinda like Wednesday. Hump day. If you can make it through till then it's downhill. It lasts more than one day unfortunately. T2, I don't understand why they act that way when they come home, but it's inevitable. I have not read one post on here that says it's a cake walk after they come home.
Try to STAY FOCUSED on your goal. When you were living apart you had to work hard to stay out of his drama and be you, plus do what you had to do to get to this point. No easy task. Now, there's no retreating- each into their own cave. It's there all the time and dating time has turned into living together time.
All I can say is what I know has to be done during this phase.
ACT AS IF this is working. Don't get caught up in his feelings that he tries to project on you. Refuse to take them on. Forget the little stuff. You know, like socks, wet clothes, stupid little things that they make a big deal about. Refuse to get angry about it. This will take a consious effort on your part. My H has all the same issues, and I'm thinking BIG FREAKIN DEAL! GET OVER IT! I used to let it bother me and argued with him about how unimportant it all was, which only made him think I didn't understand his needs all the more. See the cycle?
Step outside of it T2.
He's looking for validation right now.
You are so right that this is round 2. We think that we worked SO hard to get them here and that it's our turn to sit back a little and soak in some major sucking up on their part. When we don't get it, we're peeved. And hurt. They hurt us so much, and they aren't saying and doing what we need them to! Not yet. Doesn't mean it won't happen.
I've been on both sides of this so I can speak from experience. They are going to feel justified in what they did (I don't care what they say to the contrary) for quite some time. The only thing you can do is keep making him glad that he came home. Things will get better. This is too raw yet. There will come a time when you can talk about things. I know YOUR ready, but he's not. It seems like it's always us, us,us that has to do all the giving. That's because it is! As Michele says, sometimes only one is working on really saving the M.
You gotta keep your wits about you at this time. It's easy to lose it, and fall back into old habits because you feel justified. You won't change him like that.
If nothing changes,then nothing will change. Think about it.
You will get him to change by responding to your changes over a period of time. One of you has to change first. Who do you think that's going to be T2? Him? Fat chance.
We have to decide in this phase 2 if we're going to do more of the same, or if we're going to stick to our 180's and positive changes we've made in ourselves.
Do what you need to do to get to phase 3.
Set your goals and strive to reach them. If you have to make little ones every day, like:I will not react negatively if he says something negative. Then....and this is the important part. Let it go. Do it for yourself T2.
You gonna get to the next level,and then your gonna tell me how to get through this! That's what this BB is all about-support, advise, and a push when we need it. Go for it!
Rachael

[sage]

Hi T2,

I can relate to some of what you're going thru right now...my quick 2 cents is that you KNOW what you need to do (remember those goals?) and that you know you've got to employ patience, non-angry responses, etc. You've really and truly entered a tremendously difficult stage of Piecing...the GOOD news is that ALL of what you've learned thru DB'ing is STILL applicable the BAD news is that it sometimes seems much harder to apply when they're sitting next to you on the couch .

I am sorta mad at myself, but I'm also thinking, "Okay, I was an ass but I did attempt to recover HOWEVER HE made NO ATTEMPT to use it as an opportunity to REASSURE he went immediately into the "there she goes again" mode instead of taking a minute to think, "Gee maybe I should say something like that song means nothing to me and never has, never will. ILY."
Crazy me expecting HIM to do something different HUH?
T2

Ya know that looking for reassurances from h is a cheeseless tunnel, right? I'm not saying don't hang out there...I've been there and it can be a nice enough place to visit, I suppose...just try not to move in! I found that when I set up house in the "looking for reassurances tunnel" my PMA went down, anger went up, patience took a leave of absence and resentment moved in as my next door neighbor!!!

If your h is anything like mine...you'll hear the reassurances eventually but (and this is where YOU come in)they may not be in the language that you're expecting or given in the time frame that you want them. I'm finding that my h. is a wonderful reassurer but rarely when I ask for it (well...he's getting much better at that) or EXPECT it. ASSumptions and EXPECTATIONS seem to be reassurance killers among WASes.

Anyway....just wanted to pop by...it IS exhausting, I know, so please try to take YOU time as you can....keep venting here and absolutely (!!!!) take the time out to note and list positives. That made a world of difference for me.

I know that holdingon has been encouraging you to live in the moment so let me reinforce that. I know you want reassurances and probably (?) some apologies, too...but those are about the future and the past. What's it feel like right here, right now? (OK, tiring! Scary! Anxious! )

When I get hung up about the future it's about FEAR. And the past? Well, that's about ANGER. If you focus on just this minute you may find it easier to feel happy, grateful, etc.

Sage
PS You ARE doing great, you know that, right????

[imalright]

T2,
2 x 4's-lumber truck? No way LOL, I wouldn't do that. I almost feel on the floor laughing, you have a good sense of humor!

Pretend he's a fish... you'd have to do all that work, too. So, you've got him hooked, you have to reel him in SLOWLY... you can't be jerking him in the boat. You had to be incredibly PATIENT to even get him to take the hook...

I laughed on this one too! You gals are hilarious!!!
My H likes to fish I will keep this in mind!
Hope you are doing better!
I could send you a clothespin, but that would hurt! How about stick on velcro?
Deb

[talitsa]

...I agonize solely over wondering WHAT issues did my H feel justified his As...I'm still waiting for him to open up those feelings and share them with me. I feel like without that information I'm left to continue to go stumbling around in the dark trying to "fix" what I think was broken when in fact I may be way off the mark. If I'm living as though I assume he lost love for me because I didn't do his laundry every day, BUT he really lost love for me because I didn't make pot roast anymore (just a stupid hypethetical)(sp?) then HOW am I suppose to know what HE NEEDS if HE won't tell me?

Hey, wait a minute! I know there is a reason to acknowledge our own parts in problems in our marraiges. It definately helps to have that perspective when in piecing--so things are on a more level playing field, right.

But what the heck are you doing taking the responsibility and blame for? We want to make it about us, because it's hard to imagine our H's doing such acts when they also say they love us. It also feels more comfortable to believe that there is some control we can have by "fixing the broken parts".

What would it be like if you were to fully comprehend that, while you had problems like every one else, your H's infidelity probably had very little to do with you and everything to do with his state of mind. What if you realized that he compartmentalized the infidelity to the point where he could have been working on things with you in MC--quite sincerely, and still see the OW?

Both of those things are strong liklihoods, given some of the things you've read in other people's stories, right?

If you accepted that the infidelity had very little to do with you, but you still wanted to repair and improve your M, how would that change your perception?

[Trying24now]

Tal,

You asked:

What if you realized that he compartmentalized the infidelity to the point where he could have been working on things with you in MC--quite sincerely, and still see the OW?

I'd run like my life depended on it, because that realization would tell me that he could continue to betray me, even now and justify it because he's HERE being a 'better husband.'


You then asked:

If you accepted that the infidelity had very little to do with you, but you still wanted to repair and improve your M, how would that change your perception?

I have come to terms with the fact that all his 'justifications' for his cheating were excuses NOT justifications. There IS NO justification for betraying someone. Betrayal is an act of cowardice. I see my H as a 'sick man'....lost in some self created hell and torment, and he desperately wants to attribute the cause of all his pain to someone, and HE picked ME to be the bad guy.

Granted, I was far from perfect, but even in my darkest hours emotionally with him, it NEVER occurred to me to go screw someone else to make myself feel better.

I want my H to revisit his self placating justifications and SEE them for the self deception they were. I want him to see the horror of his choices and the pain those choices caused ME, our M and ultimately, himself too. I want him to own his cowardice, admit his fears, and face his demons so that I NEVER have to be dragged down this life altering road ever again.
T2