Hoping WAW will someday see through the fog....

[Greek]

Greek, does the get tough approach work? It sounds very scarey for the nice guy that I am. I alalso reading no more mr. nice guy as well.

Shell, it's not about "what works." When it comes to human beings, there is nothing that ... works. But there are positions that you can take which are Good for you and Good for your family and Good for your W. Change your mindset from focusing on the OUTCOME to focusing on the JOURNEY. Your M is a mess. You don't want THAT M back...right? So you need the journey, too. For the M. And for Shell. W has already decided something along those lines, too.

It's not so much about you being a 'tough guy' as it is about you doing some things, allowing some things, that are tough for you to do. Example - it sounds like she doesn't want to live with you. Let her leave. Don't help her. But don't stop her. That will be tough for you to do.

She'll be worried about what it will do to the children if she leaves. Rightly so. Don't rescue her from that. Let HER agonize about what HER decision will mean for the children. That will be tough for you to do. Stand firm.

Even if she works, she's going to worry and fret about money. Let her. You will not pay for one single thing that takes her out of the home. Tough for you to do b/c you see yourself as being a provider. You provide for the family - she's leaving that family.

I'm a big believer in women taking ownership of their claims, words and actions. Shell, I don't know if you're a jerk to live with or not. But if you are such a jerk that she thinks y'all should separate, make her OWN that and leave you. If you make it too easy, you are denying her the opportunity to have the necessary conversation with herself about "how bad do I really want to be done with this M?" If you don't put up a legal fight, she sails through the toughest part of the mess without one single speed bump. She NEEDS the speed bumps to question herself, to journey. The speed bumps also give YOU time to show off what you are learning from this experience.

About the OM. So b/c you had an A, you can't call her on hers? Like she had a 'get out of jail free' card? Guilt - the gift that just keeps on giving. If it was wrong for you, it is wrong for her. If her A is a part of the problem for the M, then it also becomes a part of the D if she won't give it up. Make her own it.

Tough doesn not = mean. You can still be a gentleman while handing her doses of reality.

Cheers.
Greek