Hoping WAW will someday see through the fog....

[mishka422]

SSGA - You are getting some wonderful advice. You can't get better than getting advice and support from Coach and Greek's perspective will help you a lot. Trust me, I wish I had them around when my sitch was early.

As far as the bulldog L, definitely follow through with that. I was fortunate enough to have a friend who is a judge in my county and was able to point me toward the best L's in the area. I found one who was more than willing to get as down and dirty as I wanted her to, but was also willing to pull back fully when I asked her to.

I'm sure you're already aware, but in GA Adultery (if you can prove it) is grounds for D and can be used in custody and property division. Not all judges are sympathetic about it, but if you get the right judge you could luck out. It does not change anything with regards to CS though (that is a strictly based on a formula. you can figure out that amount using the state's calculator on the website).

Like you said, D in GA can be accomplished in 30 days. It almost never happens that way though, especially if there is property and children involved. In mine, we owned no property, had nothing to fight over at all, he didn't argue the custody agreement I wanted (I got sole custody, he has visitation and joint legal custody) and it still took 10 months. I was pushing it to the end in the last 2 months or it would have taken longer.

So, get the L in place, protect yourself and then let your W hang herself. She's unhappy? She is the one that has to make the changes, not you. Like Coach and Greek said - YOU DON'T LEAVE THE HOUSE. You are the stability for your boys right now. They need you to be that for them.

Take care! I'll look forward to hearing about your progress.

[Greek]

Greek, does the get tough approach work? It sounds very scarey for the nice guy that I am. I alalso reading no more mr. nice guy as well.

Shell, it's not about "what works." When it comes to human beings, there is nothing that ... works. But there are positions that you can take which are Good for you and Good for your family and Good for your W. Change your mindset from focusing on the OUTCOME to focusing on the JOURNEY. Your M is a mess. You don't want THAT M back...right? So you need the journey, too. For the M. And for Shell. W has already decided something along those lines, too.

It's not so much about you being a 'tough guy' as it is about you doing some things, allowing some things, that are tough for you to do. Example - it sounds like she doesn't want to live with you. Let her leave. Don't help her. But don't stop her. That will be tough for you to do.

She'll be worried about what it will do to the children if she leaves. Rightly so. Don't rescue her from that. Let HER agonize about what HER decision will mean for the children. That will be tough for you to do. Stand firm.

Even if she works, she's going to worry and fret about money. Let her. You will not pay for one single thing that takes her out of the home. Tough for you to do b/c you see yourself as being a provider. You provide for the family - she's leaving that family.

I'm a big believer in women taking ownership of their claims, words and actions. Shell, I don't know if you're a jerk to live with or not. But if you are such a jerk that she thinks y'all should separate, make her OWN that and leave you. If you make it too easy, you are denying her the opportunity to have the necessary conversation with herself about "how bad do I really want to be done with this M?" If you don't put up a legal fight, she sails through the toughest part of the mess without one single speed bump. She NEEDS the speed bumps to question herself, to journey. The speed bumps also give YOU time to show off what you are learning from this experience.

About the OM. So b/c you had an A, you can't call her on hers? Like she had a 'get out of jail free' card? Guilt - the gift that just keeps on giving. If it was wrong for you, it is wrong for her. If her A is a part of the problem for the M, then it also becomes a part of the D if she won't give it up. Make her own it.

Tough doesn not = mean. You can still be a gentleman while handing her doses of reality.

Cheers.
Greek

[shellshockedga]

Greek and mishka, all great advice.

She'll be worried about what it will do to the children if she leaves. Rightly so. Don't rescue her from that. Let HER agonize about what HER decision will mean for the children. That will be tough for you to do. Stand firm.

So she wont leave without the children. Unfortunately, at this point she can't afford an apartment or anything on her own. She really has no income. It appears that we will be stuck together for as long as this process takes (and I say process given the roller coaster of her ways - who knows what is next) I wont leave. Of course she wont listen to me try to explain finances..... When I talk, she mostly tunes me out right now. OK, I can handle that. Interestingly, she doesnt think that a divorce will effect the childre at all. She has this feeling that we wills till be this little family, just not married. I cant imagine it will be like that, maybe i am wrong?

I'm a big believer in women taking ownership of their claims, words and actions. Shell, I don't know if you're a jerk to live with or not. But if you are such a jerk that she thinks y'all should separate, make her OWN that and leave you.

Sad thing is that I am really nice guy to live with. Maybe too nice. And yes, I see myself as the family providor, so it is really tough to think about where this is going for her..

[mishka422]

Sad thing is that I am really nice guy to live with. Maybe too nice.

Whoa......back up sunshine!!! Could this possibly be one of the reasons she is unhappy? Too nice? Hmmmmm.....nice guys are great for a while, but honestly, a woman wants a man that takes charge. Nice guys are sometimes inhibited in how they express themselves too because of fear that it will come of as brutish. You need to get over that nice guy syndrome and quick!

I think GIMA has read a book about that.....ask him to borrow it....poste haste!

[mishka422]

I answered what I could over on my thread. Probably should have posted it here, but I was in a hurry.

[shellshockedga]

Mishka, thank you for the answers. Tomorrow I meet with the L to help me digest all of this. More on that later.

Today was interesting to say the least. When I woke up this morning and went to the breakfast table I noticed my W had clearly been up all night crying. Wow, join the crowd. First time I have seen that from her. As you all know she wants a D and thinks that there is no other option. To quote her from today "I just don't want to be married to you anymore."

So I gave her an alternative approach to D which would include her leaving the house with the children for an apartment for the next 9 months - sort of a trial separation. See how things go. See if she likes it. I would stay in our house. And if appropriate, put it up for sale.

Well, that failed miserably, and I guess I was not surprised. I didn't push it, only offered it up as a possibility.

She said she did not want the children to have to leave the house and that I was hurting them by even suggesting it. Now, who wants to get a D?????? I guess that is her way of coping, trying to put the blame on me rather than accept what she is doing.

Sh finally stated that we could get a divorce and continue to live in the house together. No need to even tell the children. Have you all ever heard of that before? Sounds crazy to me.

Her other suggestion was that we get an apartment and each of us would live in it for a week at a time and then swap to the house. Thereby allowing the kids to continue to live in the same home. Sounds like this would be an absolute mess to me. 7 years of this??? I don't think that will work. Has anyone done this???

So she is starting to get the idea that financially this isn't going to be easy. Unfortunately in GA she can go file for $87.00. Of course there is a huge sea between filing and the D. She doesn't get how much that costs and that I am not paying for it out of family funds.

This afternoon, I began to feel this calm come over me. I am not sure if that is a sign of subtle detachment or acceptance of the reality of my sitch, but at least for a few hours, it was nice.

From here on in it is time for her to, as GIMA would say "put on the big girl panties" and see what this will all be about. Sad, but necessary.

I know this has been long, but I needed to download a lot from today. Helps to clear the mind and soul. I hope she doesn't go through with this, but feel as though she is destined to do it. Maybe I will be one of those lucky ones whose S comes back after they realize their mistake. Or maybe I will realize that there are more and better fish in the sea....

More tomorrow after the visit to the L.

[givingitmyall]

"I just don't want to be married to you anymore."

Heard that one too. Exactly the same way.

Sh finally stated that we could get a divorce and continue to live in the house together. No need to even tell the children. Have you all ever heard of that before? Sounds crazy to me.

Me too. This isn't any saner:

Her other suggestion was that we get an apartment and each of us would live in it for a week at a time and then swap to the house. Thereby allowing the kids to continue to live in the same home. Sounds like this would be an absolute mess to me. 7 years of this??? I don't think that will work. Has anyone done this???

This afternoon, I began to feel this calm come over me. I am not sure if that is a sign of subtle detachment or acceptance of the reality of my sitch, but at least for a few hours, it was nice.

Keep working on you and being happy with you. This will get better.

From here on in it is time for her to, as GIMA would say "put on the big girl panties" and see what this will all be about. Sad, but necessary.

I got that quote from Greek. And it is very true.

Hang in there. You are doing fine. You will be up and down for the immediate future, but it does get easier.

[mishka422]

Have you all ever heard of that before? Sounds crazy to me.

Certifiable!

Good grief! Yeah, she isn't seeing reality in any way. All she is running on is emotion.

She said she did not want the children to have to leave the house and that I was hurting them by even suggesting it.

Of course it's your fault! Um, hello.........aren't you the one that has caused her to be miserable and now your suggesting that your children should leave their home. I hope the biting sarcasm behind this statement has come through to you

Delusional.

That is the word for her.

Again, she needs to stew in her own juices and see the ramifications of what she is doing. You do not need to pave the way for her or make it any smoother.

I'm going to ask a couple of questions and I hope you will give completely honest answers.

What is her specific reason for wanting a D?

Is she having an affair? I saw you mention OM but that she said it was done and never physical, is that right? Women attach on a very emotional level before any physical comes into it. Is she pining for him?

Was there ever any abuse in the M?

[sandi2]

Hi Shell, I'm Sandi. I was an almost WAW......like your wife. I was in an EA with OM. I never met OM face to face.....it was an Internet A (which really makes me sick to tell that), but it is the condition I had gotten myself into at that time.

I did not leave my M and I want you to realize that there is a wonderful chance that your W will not leave. But, you are living in fear and you are not using the tools you need during this difficult time in your life. You have to do what seems would be the opposite thing one would do in these circumstances. It will not feel normal at first, but you will learn as you go.

My H was the nicest of nice guys! When he first discovered about my EA, he smothered me with his attention and trying to "win" me.......and I could not stand it! The more he pursued me, the more I disliked him........and forget about sleeping with him or ML. But do you know what would have just shocked me to death and would have jerked my head around to make me see how stupid I was being about having thoughts of walking away from my H? If my H would have had the attitude of-- "Yeah, you know...come to think of it, I believe it would be great to be single, and I think I'll start living that way and enjoying myself for a change"! If he would have acted like "he" was considering leaving our M b/c it would have been what "he" wanted, I think I would have forgotten all about OM, and my focus would have been all on my H. Can you see what I am saying here? It was all about me...but if he had acted as if he wanted to be "free" of me, then my focus would have been completely turned around and on him instead of myself.

WAW's are totally selfish in their thinking and will put themselves over their children and parents....everyone. It shocks H's to learn what their WAW has become, but she is not the girl you M and you must not be thinking of her as being the way she used to be.

Your W doesn't know what she wants! That is why she's coming up with all these stupid ideas. You are scared stiff....and it shows! You won't keep your mouth closed and you continue to try to "reason" with her. WAW's cannot be reasoned with! They have no logic! After you were told NOT to talk to her about D or S.....you OFFERED to let her take your children and live in an apartment for 9 months! It is this kind of action that will ruin your chances of reconciling and having a great R. Do not "help" or "offer" anything like that again, okay?

You were told not to rescue her and to be tough and not do ANYTHING that would aid her in leaving. What part of that did you not understand? Look, don't brag about being a nice guy. There have been a lot of nice guys on the board....and they all talk about how they are just to "nice" to do that (whatever) to their WAW. Well, let me tell you.....your WAW will walk all over you and kiss your nice a$$ goodbye and never look back.....and do you know why? B/c she doesn't respect "nice". Oh, she likes a nice boss, nice friends, nice neighbors, pastor, whatever......but she does not want a nice-guy husband. Does that not make sense? No, I guess not. Okay........go to the bookstore and find a cheesy romance novel for about six bucks and you will find out what most W's want in a man. Writer's get rich off that stuff b/c they know what women fantasize about.....and it's not a nice guy sweeping them up in his arms to carry off to perfumed silky sheets to have his way with her. So, are you fed up with me talking about nice guys yet? Okay. But, do you get the picture?

So, you are going to have to get tough, be tough, stay tough. Tough does not mean abusive. It does not mean obnoxious. A woman wants a man to show strength and decisiveness. She wants to know that he will stand up to her and refuses to be bullied or emotionally blackmailed. She needs to know that he is strong enough to take care of her and her children regardless of what disaster may hit them. She can lean on him and afford to fall apart in his arms. She doesn't have to be the strong one that carries the responsibilities of the family b/c he's there and he'll do it. (Not that she doesn't have her part, but this is her "thinking".) She wants a man who knows when to be gentle and kind--but also knows when to call her on her BS.

More than likely, your W will never tell you all of this....so I will. She wants you to know this and to be this. You can still be "you" and be this man. You can be a good man.....but it depends upon how you see "good". Is good allowing her to have her way about everything? No, that is allowing her to walk on you. A wife will walk on her H if he doesn't put a stop to it. It is kind of like kids who disrespect adults who won't be strict at the appropriate times. So, does this all sound clear as mud? I am not trying to get you to be mean, and I hope you won't go too far the opposite direction......and keep things balanced here.

A wife must respect her H before she can admire him & love him. You want your W to be sexually attracted to you.......not to have sex as a physical release! What will it take for your W to be attracted to you? I can think of a few ways but I have made a very long post, so I will go for now, but I'll be back and see how you are doing. You already have several supporting you and that will help. It is a hard journey, but your M can be saved so don't give up.

[RedSoxFan]

Interestingly, she doesnt think that a divorce will effect the childre at all. She has this feeling that we wills till be this little family, just not married. I cant imagine it will be like that, maybe i am wrong?

I completely convinced myself of this when I was in the process of leaving my wife. When I woke up many months later I was devastated at what I had done. No one could talk sense into me at the time though. I couldn't hear it.