My Intro: Thanks for Reading!

[Coach]

Capiche?

Love it.

Were you joking about the bourbon? I hope...

Ok, here goes. Look at how long it took you to "get it" (wanting her back). And your time frame for her is dismally short.

She moved on. Your agreement was to stay out of her business in exchange for her not filing. That was a manipulative and unsavory agreement from the get go. One neither of you could honor.

You have not really gotten the lesson here or the concept of running on parallel tracks; keeping hope but accepting D simultaneously. You have not detached, I think because to you detaching means giving up hope and you would rather tough it out until you can't take anymore and feel entitled to give up but say you did everything you could. You have dealt with this for a comparatively short time relative to some and you aren't really up for it.

So, the gig is up. You don't want to stick by and keep enabling her relationship with OM and pay for it while giving her more time with the kids. So, stop trying to be someone you're not. She will respect you more (and you will yourself) if you take care of yourself and get what is rightfully yours financially and custody wise. Divorces take time.

It irks me that you are all hung up on the papers and how that would be "it" for you. It should have been "it" for her when you walked out and told her you were done but she hung on there and is still experiencing great turmoil...give up your notions of what should or shouldn't be...you got this ball rolling. So, she files. How long does finalization take in your state?

I used to think that if H and I divorced that would be it forever. But, it is nonsense, there are so many surprises...let it go. Do your life, take care of yourself, be reasonable, date, see what life brings you...it could be her, it could be no one for a while, it could be someone else. I know this is huge but this is where I am now and it took me a long time to get here. Due to the nature of your sitch, you have to get and get it fast because you were off in space for so long.

You are being impatient and judgmental and a tad petulant. You get up in her sh*t and then say "huh? what? me?"...Fess up. Get real. You've got to back the heck off and figure out what is your business and what isn't.

The positives are that when you make a legal custody agreement, she can't spring this last minute cr*p on you. She can't work your guilt anymore. It is even steven. She had a right to make her choice and now you both deal with the honest reality of what you essentially initiated. She may need this for her own sense of justice and closure and further renewal. She knows the risk. She has as much or more to lose than you do.

I see this as good in that you can stop playing games and really play by some more balanced and objective rules.

But, I think you need counseling to manage your emotions. When she reacts to your expectations regarding custody etc. you can't fight or wig out on her. You need to really get centered and detach or it will get down right ugly and detrimental to all of your well beings. I think you need real help sorting out what is your business and what is not and determining what entitlement you have that is coming out of resentment versus objective reality. And please, do not expect a lawyer to clarify on that front because as your L tells you you are clearly entitled to x, her L will be telling her the opposite. You need to get clear on your intentions and know that you are being reasonable and in alignment with the well being of your kids.

That's a start.

Alive and Kicking

[Stronger]

RSF, is there anything she’s done or said lately that makes you think she still wants in? She could see you two still working it out? Any slight, small, itty-bitty hint of wanting to work it out with you?
For me, my H actually filed. But his butt is ALWAYS around. He texts and calls, makes us dinner, spends every weekend with us, he always pokes and grabs me, he gives me lots of hugs, he showers with me (TMI perhaps?), he sleeps at our place a normally four out of seven nights a week, I still do his laundry, he still takes out the trash, mows the lawn, changes light bulbs, air filters, etc…..basically, he’s still taking care of me and S and still around very very much. He does not act like a man who wants a divorce. There are times he doesn’t act like a man who wants to be married either, but I think you get my point.
That’s where my hope and ability to keep fighting for this comes from. Believe me there are PLENTY of days and moments when I want to say screw it. But so far, I’m still in it.
Why are you still in it? What signs do you have, if any?

[aliveandkicking]

Capiche?

Love it.

Were you joking about the bourbon? I hope...

Ok, here goes. Look at how long it took you to "get it" (wanting her back). And your time frame for her is dismally short.

She moved on. Your agreement was to stay out of her business in exchange for her not filing. That was a manipulative and unsavory agreement from the get go. One neither of you could honor.

You have not really gotten the lesson here or the concept of running on parallel tracks; keeping hope but accepting D simultaneously. You have not detached, I think because to you detaching means giving up hope and you would rather tough it out until you can't take anymore and feel entitled to give up but say you did everything you could. You have dealt with this for a comparatively short time relative to some and you aren't really up for it.

So, the gig is up. You don't want to stick by and keep enabling her relationship with OM and pay for it while giving her more time with the kids. So, stop trying to be someone you're not. She will respect you more (and you will yourself) if you take care of yourself and get what is rightfully yours financially and custody wise. Divorces take time.

It irks me that you are all hung up on the papers and how that would be "it" for you. It should have been "it" for her when you walked out and told her you were done but she hung on there and is still experiencing great turmoil...give up your notions of what should or shouldn't be...you got this ball rolling. So, she files. How long does finalization take in your state?

I used to think that if H and I divorced that would be it forever. But, it is nonsense, there are so many surprises...let it go. Do your life, take care of yourself, be reasonable, date, see what life brings you...it could be her, it could be no one for a while, it could be someone else. I know this is huge but this is where I am now and it took me a long time to get here. Due to the nature of your sitch, you have to get and get it fast because you were off in space for so long.

You are being impatient and judgmental and a tad petulant. You get up in her sh*t and then say "huh? what? me?"...Fess up. Get real. You've got to back the heck off and figure out what is your business and what isn't.

The positives are that when you make a legal custody agreement, she can't spring this last minute cr*p on you. She can't work your guilt anymore. It is even steven. She had a right to make her choice and now you both deal with the honest reality of what you essentially initiated. She may need this for her own sense of justice and closure and further renewal. She knows the risk. She has as much or more to lose than you do.

I see this as good in that you can stop playing games and really play by some more balanced and objective rules.

But, I think you need counseling to manage your emotions. When she reacts to your expectations regarding custody etc. you can't fight or wig out on her. You need to really get centered and detach or it will get down right ugly and detrimental to all of your well beings. I think you need real help sorting out what is your business and what is not and determining what entitlement you have that is coming out of resentment versus objective reality. And please, do not expect a lawyer to clarify on that front because as your L tells you you are clearly entitled to x, her L will be telling her the opposite. You need to get clear on your intentions and know that you are being reasonable and in alignment with the well being of your kids.

That's a start.

Alive and Kicking

3 whistles? Not bad...not bad at all.

Morning RSF, hope you're doing ok.

[faithisbelieving]

A&K...great post. Coach, great post. Agree. Each time your wife has responded to you...whether by email, phone, etc, I think you are missing HUGE opportunities here. I don't mean opportunities to make a sudden miraculous intervention, but, little steps along the way to show strength, conviction and listening.

The email that you received re: church was an amazing opportunity to respond to, talk about poetic license. We talk about changing here on this forum...without trying to sell it to our LBS's. What a great stage for a powerful response.

alive and kicking was right in that your W was quite clear and eloquent about her feelings. Whether she is in MLC or not, there is nothing you can do to change her or control that but you have a wonderful opportunity now to show change IN YOU.

If she wants a D, you cannot do anything to stop her, so, if she has moved on, then you should too but in a way that you maintain your boundaries, be a great dad, yada yada and if you choose to do so, keep your back door open.

Finally, after reading your wife's emails, I suggest you take a peek at womensinfidelitydotcom. Read the intro. Digest it. I'd be curious to see if you find anything in that.

FIB

[aliveandkicking]

Rsf- just Saw your last post but on the road literally. I'll respond in a but.

[gucci loafer]

The way I see it I have 3 options

answer....
1) Ignore the email completely and see what happens.


She is telling you that she thought this over deeply.
She went to church and was convicted by the message at church.
That message was that she wasn't living in harmony with her beliefs. She then told herself that she either had to stay married and dump OM or get divorced and be with OM.

Her mind (led by her feelings) then told her she wanted OM. She has decided that she thinks she will lose the guilt by divorcing you. (possibly not true)....

She doesn't want to hurt you because she does care for you, but she had let go when you left last year and doesn't feel the same way that she used to feel about you romantically.

In the meantime, you come back and now want her and will be the husband she wanted all along. This initially mixed her up. With your coming back and causing arguments and problems now with wanting her back, whining about the kids being with her when OM is around and yada yada yada, has caused her to lose the fact that she WAS becoming HAPPY without you. She has now realized that she has lost focus of that happiness she was starting to feel without you and now is back to UNHAPPINESS and inner turmoil..(which she is now realizing is your biggest asset.)(causing disruption and turmoil to her life leading to UNHAPPINESS and questioning and issues and problems)(instead of peace of mind and joy and excitement and happiness)

She now has decided to focus back on being happy and taking care of herself and has realized that you are bringing that down again. She is hoping that you understand that YOU are where she was last year and that you will find out the same things she has, which is that "this is for the best" and that maybe you can be friends and raise the kids togther, but that she is choosing the OM at this point.

I don't see a hidden agenda in this email. She is trying to tell you without hurting you (typical woman who beats around the bush to avoid hurting someone)more.... She HAS decided which direction she is taking and why...


I would ignore it. That doesn't mean you don't get the messsage that she was trying to send.

Let her go as she did you. THAT is your answer..

[RedSoxFan]

RSF, is there anything she’s done or said lately that makes you think she still wants in? She could see you two still working it out? Any slight, small, itty-bitty hint of wanting to work it out with you?
For me, my H actually filed. But his butt is ALWAYS around. He texts and calls, makes us dinner, spends every weekend with us, he always pokes and grabs me, he gives me lots of hugs, he showers with me (TMI perhaps?), he sleeps at our place a normally four out of seven nights a week, I still do his laundry, he still takes out the trash, mows the lawn, changes light bulbs, air filters, etc…..basically, he’s still taking care of me and S and still around very very much. He does not act like a man who wants a divorce. There are times he doesn’t act like a man who wants to be married either, but I think you get my point.
That’s where my hope and ability to keep fighting for this comes from. Believe me there are PLENTY of days and moments when I want to say screw it. But so far, I’m still in it.
Why are you still in it? What signs do you have, if any?

I honestly can't answer yes to that. I've been trying to do the DBing thing and maintain distance. It seems like each time I pull way back for a while she ends up coming back very negative. For a time I was spending lots of time around the house with her and kids. It was really great. All of this might just be coincidence coincidence though.

Probably the hardest challenge for me is understanding and interpreting all of the advice I get and then putting it to work. It is my responsibility to do so but I have to tell you that so much of it is at odds...different people...different recommendations.

[aliveandkicking]

I'm on the go here but have to call u on this. You came here because you were NOT getting the results you wanted and you could not accept your W having OM. You never really backed off completely and gave her a legitimate separation with boundaries that respected both of you.

I'm not judging you. This is hard to get. The advice has been pretty consistent but the implementation has been too challenging.

Now, it is clearly defined for you. But, I see you as resentful and disgruntled. Recognize that you asked for this and deal with your feelings with IC. Any pissiness on your part will be intolerable to her and I suspect that is what she is offended by and pushing away. Take the hit. See what happens. It is not over and she is paying attention. Regardless, you can grow exponentially by handling this rationally and with clear, reasonable action.

[RedSoxFan]

I'm on the go here but have to call u on this. You came here because you were NOT getting the results you wanted and you could not accept your W having OM.

Partially true. I came here in shambles to try to figure out how to save my marriage. I hadn't really been trying anything beforehand.

You never really backed off completely and gave her a legitimate separation with boundaries that respected both of you.

I think this true though I confess I don't know exactly what this looks like. How far back is backed off and how long is long enough?

I'm not judging you. This is hard to get. The advice has been pretty consistent but the implementation has been too challenging.

I'm pretty thick skinned most of the time and I'm genuinely appreciative of the advice I get and I really want to learn and make things work. I want to succeed here. I really do. I don't feel like I'm being judged by anyone and even if I did I wouldn't let it stop me.

Now, it is clearly defined for you.

This is where I disagree. Admittedly it may be my own denseness that is holding me back but the path isn't 100% clear. When I hear coach, Gucci and stronger giving me pointers I hear very different things. I hear stay engaged, I hear completely disengage, I hear validate the things she's saying, I hear ignore and keep moving forward.

The only real answer might just be, hang around, try stuff and see if it works. Do so with love and respect. Make sure you're taking care of yourself along the way and everyone should be fine in the end.

But, I see you as resentful and disgruntled. Recognize that you asked for this and deal with your feelings with IC. Any pissiness on your part will be intolerable to her and I suspect that is what she is offended by and pushing away. Take the hit. See what happens. It is not over and she is paying attention. Regardless, you can grow exponentially by handling this rationally and with clear, reasonable action.

My biggest personal challenge is quite honestly keeping my ego and jealousy in check so that I can look at the entire situation with love and compassion. That is not easy to admit but it's the truth. It's also not easy to overcome.

BTW. I didn't ask for anything. I effed up and now I'm trying to make things right. It was a long hard road getting to the place where we both felt our relationship was dead and I personally felt worthless. It didn't just start when I walked out the door.

[RedSoxFan]

I would ignore it. That doesn't mean you don't get the messsage that she was trying to send.

Let her go as she did you. THAT is your answer..

OK, but why would you ignore it and what would you expect to happen next? What would you expect the outcome to be?