Infidelity

[k067]

Help. My husband of nineteen years told me he was unhappy and we've grown apart and he doesn't think he wants our marriage anymore. Last week I found out he is having an affair. He is not sorry for this and feels very justified in having this relationship because we grew apart.

He wants to take things slowly, meaning he is not wanting to move out or even sleep in another bed. I have asked him to leave but he still asks if he can stay. He has refused to stop this relationship. He went out of town for business Monday, and i asked him not to come home. Today, on his way home he asked me to pick him up from the airport. He didn't say anything about me not wanting him to come home.

I talked with my coach yesterday who told me I should let him stay in the house, but how can I when he won't give the other woman up. I feel like an idiot. He is getting his cake and eating it too.

Please HELP me because I want to tell him that as long as he is in this other relationship, he cannot come home. Am I right? Please HELP!!!

[sandi2]

Welcome to the board. Have you read the DR book? That is a must in order to understand what this is all about.

You need to know what is the most important thing on earth is for you. Then ask yourself what you are able to do in order to obtain that most important thing on earth. You have to know what that is and what you are willing to do....or to endure.....and for how long.

Don't do anything that makes you feel "less" for doing it. Don't beg or plead with your H. Don't do any type of behavior that causes a woman to be unattractive. Acting b*tchy or pitiful is not attractive. Behaving like a police woman to your H is not attractive. Acting clingy or needy is not attractive. Always be a classy lady.

Set boundaries and expect them to be respected. Boundaries are not "demands" on the H, but rather what you can or can't handle.

You should be respected and never treated like a doormat. Behave with grace and dignity.

You can find great support and advice here on the board. You may want to read the threads on the infidelity forum. You need to to avoid talking to your H about your MR until you feel more certain about your descions.

I'll check back with you later. Take good care of yourself. The more you can tell us about the R, the better. Do you have children, what are the ages of you & H, etc.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

K,

I'm curious as to why you first posted on the Infidelity forum, yesterday, and then when some of us replied to you, you never responded. But then you come to Newcomers and post the same thing over here??

You'd get a better response if you kept it to one forum, and responded to those who respond to you.

Puppy

[k067]

Thank you for responding. I am new at this and wasn't sure exactly where to post things. I am in so much pain and I just want my marriage back and my family in tact. I have 3 kids who are 18, 13, and 6. The older two, an 18 yr. old boy is almost completely shutting down. I have to drag any feeling or thoughts out of him. He has a lot of emotion, but is afraid to share it with his dad. I guess he is afraid of him leaving him too. I told my two older children they should share their feelings with their dad and their fears even if it is hard or scary. Is that the right thing to do? I want my H to see what he is giving up by leaving. I have stopped talking to him this weekend. I made the mistake of bringing up the relationship AGAIN and he told me he is definately through. I asked him to leave but he won't. He says this is his house, he paid for it and he is not leaving. Is he trying to get me to leave? How do I cope with this pain? After he told me that Sat. night, Sun morning he brought me a drink from a fast food place we used to go to all the time for a morning drink. What is that about. Then he has been nice and even had a family dinner sun night and he said it was good. I have only talked with my phone counselor one time and as scheduled for tomorrow morning. Can the situations really be turned around? I pray everyday and I am really trying to get out of his way and not talk about it anymore, but I slip up and I just want him to tell me it will all be ok. How silly huh?

Is it ok to have my kids express their feelings? Please someone give me support and more tips on how to do this. I feel like I am dying inside. I have been a stay at home mom for 20 years and never had a job. It is scary to get out there and try to do that. Not to mention, no one will pay me anything because I have never worked. I just can't bare the pain. Please give me advice on how to hang in there and get him to come around and see the value of our beautiful family.

[sandi2]

Glad you came back to post. The more you will post to us and tell us what is going on, the better. I wanted to respond to some things you said.

He is not sorry for this and feels very justified in having this relationship because we grew apart.

This is typical of a WAS. Don't expect him to show remorse or to apologize to you for a very long time, unless he is not the norm. Don't try to talk to him about how he should feel regarding his family, M, or the A, b/c it will do more harm than good. You have to trust us on this b/c he is going down a path that we have all experienced one way or the other.

I have asked him to leave but he still asks if he can stay.

He wants his cake and eat it too. He will not agree to give up OW as long as he can live at home, have his W, his family and her too. What have you told him when he asks if he can stay?

Today, on his way home he asked me to pick him up from the airport. He didn't say anything about me not wanting him to come home.

Why should he as long as he can have it both ways? Know what I mean?

Please HELP me because I want to tell him that as long as he is in this other relationship, he cannot come home. Am I right? Please HELP!!!

There are two ways that you can go. There is the DB way which suggest that you stay with him in the home as long as possible to show him how great you are--and for you to outshine the OW. The other way is "tough love" and that is where you tell him that you won't share him with another person and you refuse to live with him as his W. You have to decide which way you can live.

I have to drag any feeling or thoughts out of him. He has a lot of emotion, but is afraid to share it with his dad. I guess he is afraid of him leaving him too.

I don't think you should try to make him discuss his feelings. Boys often find it hard to talk to their mom about how they feel. They don't know how to put it into words. Maybe he isn't sure just exactly what he is feeling, but I'll bet two emotions are--anger and disappointment....if he knows what his dad is doing. The 18 year old may not be worried about dad leaving as much as the 13 year old. Do your children know what is going on? I do not think it is wise to let them see you afraid or worrying a lot b/c then they will feel even more insecure.

I told my two older children they should share their feelings with their dad and their fears even if it is hard or scary. Is that the right thing to do?

Well, IMHO, I would not be telling the kids to tell their dad anything unless they ask you about it. It sounds to me as if you are pushing the kids to do the talking.....and that is a NO-NO. Don't use the children to try to make your H feel guilty or to get him to decide to stop the A and be a good H & dad. It won't work and he will think less of you.

I made the mistake of bringing up the relationship AGAIN and he told me he is definately through. I asked him to leave but he won't.

Are you talking about him being through with the M? You must stop bringing up about the MR and the A. The more you talk about this to him....the more you are pushing him away.

Is he trying to get me to leave? How do I cope with this pain?

It doesn't matter if he is trying to get you to leave....just don't do it. If he wants to leave...fine, but you should not have to leave your home and no court is going to force you out when he's the one having an A.

Now listen, the first thing you have to do is to stop being this scared little housewife that is clinging to her H afraid that he is going to leave her. That is very unattractive! You have got to have some spunk and decide that you aren't going to be a doormat and show some dignity and fight in you. You have to show this man what a great gal you are and that he would be crazy for leaving somebody like yourself for that OW! Sure you are in pain, but if you go around the house showing "him" how much pain you're in and thinking it will stop his A, then you are sadly mistaken. The more you act like that, the further away you are sending him. You don't want him to have pity for you, right? You want his respect and his love. You want him to cherish and adore you. What you have to do is not with words but with actions and attitude.

Can the situations really be turned around?

Yes it can! However, it takes a long time and this way you have seen him acting.....all hot & cold? That is just a taste of what's to come. He may want to make love to you tonight and go to OW in the morning and make love to her! Are you shocked? B/c don't think for a minute it can't happen. This man is not the man you M and you will see a side of him that you never thought possible. You must stop thinking of him as the man you always knew b/c he is going through something different and he doesn't even understand his own emotions right now.

I just want him to tell me it will all be ok. How silly huh?

You want us to tell you what you already know. It is wishful thinking and you must realize that this is the wrong action for you to take. He is not going to tell you everything will be okay. That is the thoughts of a dependent wife. You have been a SAHM for a long time.....and that is great if that is what you wanted. I would have loved to have done that. However, the problem with being home for so many years is that your self-esteem has apparently taken a dive. You have no self-confidence and feel that you could not support yourself b/c you have no experience in the workforce. Therefore, you cling more tightly to your H.....and that is a huge turn-off.

I can almost promise you that if you were to be self-confident and showed him the door.....and showed him you didn't need him in your life and that you could make it just fine without him.....he'd have a change of heart fast. That is his advantage, though, b/c he knows you've depended on him all these years. So, what can you do to change your image?

Please give me advice on how to hang in there and get him to come around and see the value of our beautiful family.

What were you like when he fell in love with you?

I'm telling you like it is and I know it's hard to hear. Your H is bored and burned out and he wants something exciting in his life. This OW tells him things that make him feel more valauble as a man. She makes him feel sexy. Maybe she makes him feel as if he could do anything he sets his mind to do. Yes, I know you've told him these things....but it is "new" coming from her. She is new. He feels different with her. He likes the way she makes him feel. So....what can you do that will take his attention off the OW and put it on you? BTW, you want his positive attention...not negative. That is why you need to outshine the OW. You must be the better woman.

For one thing, you have to become unavailable. Do you know how to do that? You can't follow him around the house all the time. Don't do anything to make him feel smothered or pressured. Don't talk too much when he's around. Find places to go and leave him at home taking care of the kids instead of you.....or instead of him going out to meet OW. Don't call him during the day or TM, email, etc. You let him do all the contacting. Remember how to play hard to get? You don't pursue him.

When you are around your H, you need to act up-beat, in spite of how you really feel. Why? B/c people want to be around those who are fun and are full of life and energy. Who wants to be around somebody that is unhappy & depressed?

Do whatever you can about your apprearence to help improve it. Maybe you need to change something. New hair color or style. How about a change in your clothes? But most important is to improve your personallity and attitude. Set you some goals to work toward. Be the very best "you" that you can be. Be a woman that any man would be a fool to leave.

[k067]

Thank you so much. Thank you for this support. I talked to my coach today and she helped me keep my focus on the end goal. Last night i thought I was done with fighting for this marriage because I made the mistake of fishing for information and of course I found it and took it like a one two punch. But I got up this morning and read this and talked with my coach and feel maybe I shouldn't rush into trying to get out of this marriage and pain so quickly.

On Sunday, my H told my 13 daughter that he was sorry this is happening and that it would be hard but we would all get through it. I was very sad. Last night he told our 18 son that and that people grow apart and can't get back together. My son though told him he did not want to come from a broken home and his friends from divorced families were messed up and my H tried to justify that the divorce didn't mess them up and he would still be there that nothing would change. Not sure what that means. I am scared that he is really moving in that direction since he is being more forward with the kids. I am however taking charge of myself a little at a time. I have applied for a job which I will find out this week if I get it. I shower everyday and try to dress cute. I am at a great weight and know that I look good. I am really trying to be nice and upbeat when he is at home. I have planned a weekend at the lake with my kids this weekend. do I invite him to go along or just take my kids?

By the way what is SAHM and a WAS and IMHO?

Also, talking about the OW. He refuses to leave the house. He says it is HIS house and he paid for it. He then will say I did too being a stay at home mom for 20 years. I guess I just let this ride and not do anything for him anymore but be a great person here in the house? You asked me if I knew how to become unavailable and play hard to get? I really don't know how to do that. I have been doing the things you say. I don't contact him during the day and I am not pursuing him anymore. Do I stop doing laundry and running errands for him and stuff like that? You also talked about the "tough love" way of not sharing him with another woman. How do I do that if he won't leave the house and I am not going to either. How do I live like that? My children do not know about the OW that I am aware of. My 18 year old is not stupid though. Today I feel much more confident. I guess I will have good days and bad days. In the end I just want my marriage and family intact.

[spellfire]

SAHM = Stay at home Mom.
WAS = Walk Away Spouse ie. the person checking out of the relationship, versus the LBS (Left Behind Spouse).
IMHO = In my humble opinion.

[Esox]

Hi K,

What do you know about the other woman (OW)? Who is she? Where does she live? Is she married? I would do some snooping and find out this information. If she is married find her husband and tell him . . . he deserves to know and this exposure will put pressure on the affair. Are you husband's parents still alive? If so, I would tell them what their son is up to. Not in a nasty way, but ask for their support and any help they can give. If this woman works with him then I would also consider telling the employer . . . an office affair may open them up to a possible sexual harassment suit and most employers really frown upon that behavior. Yes, your husband will be mad, but your marriage can survive his anger, it can't survive an active affair for very long.


Also, talk to a lawyer and look into securing finances. You are completely financially dependant on him. What are you going to do if he just decides to stop financing the household? You really need to find out what your options are.

Finally, you have been a stay at home mother for 20 years . . . you are going to get child support and substantial alimony so don't panic . . . even if the worse happens, you will not be destitute.

Now after all this, the start DBing him big time!

[sandi2]

I am thinking that your "end goal" is to work to keep your M and to bust a divorce, am I correct? Sometimes, we all can get so caught up in the emotion of a stitch that we almost forget what this is all about, so I hope you really can stay focused. BTW, a "stitch" is a person's circumstances or their story. I think (lol). I had to learn all this lingo also, and not sure I have done that well.

The things your H told the kids doesn't mean anything other than he was trying to smooth things over so they would not be so hard on him. Most WAS (walk away spouse) with children of much age, will try to use those same lines as your H did. Don't worry about what he said. You have to understand something......your H will say a lot of stuff that doesn't mean anything. You have to learn not to believe anything he says--and very little of what he does. Have you read the DR book? I think Michele explains it in the book.

You cannot control anything that your H does, okay? The only person you can control is yourself. You will constantly be so upset that you'll be sick--if you try to control him--or if you worry over everything he says or does. Many LBS (left behind spouse) over-analyze every word that comes out of their S's mouth.....and it will cause your health to start giving you problems if you don't learn to let what he says run off off your back...just like water off a duck's back. No, it won't be easy, but you can gain a little bit more ground each day. Set those goals.

I am so proud that you "backed your ears" and applied for a job! That took a lot of courage! A job can be one source of building your self-esteem. If you feel like your self-confidence is fading......(and it may considering your H is having an A), then "fake it till you make it". Pretend that you are the woman you fantasize about being on that job. Have the "look" of self-confidence, and that goes a long way. Dress for success! However, dress for the job....whatever it may be. I find that whenever I know that I have done all I can to look the very best that I can for that day....taking in consideration what my job may be.....then I feel as if I can tackle things much better.

I have planned a weekend at the lake with my kids this weekend. do I invite him to go along or just take my kids?

You know, this would be a perfect opportunity to show your H how you can GAL (get a life) without him involved. I think that a break from him and all the drama would be good for you & the kids, don't you? So, I would act as if you didn't "expect" him to go.....or rather.. that you never even "thought" about him going along. The trick is to not show him that you are desiring him to be with you for the weekend. Just act as if you are going to have a great time and really don't care what he does. That may get his attention.....or it may not. You have been pressuring him a lot lately, so he may notice that you have suddenly backed off......and more than likely, he'll notice, but he may not say anything. Never.....NEVER expect him to say or react a certain way about anything you do. That can become a pressure cooker if you start wondering what he is thinking.

A person wants what they can't have. That is why the A with OW is so enticing. We humans also don't want someone who is smothering us with their attention. But whenever that person pulls back...."then" we want to be with them. Crazy, isn't it? But that is how people are! Therefore, you have to learn how to detach or pull back from your H. That is not to say you are to be "cold" or act mad. Remember you are to show how up-beat you are, so never act as if you are sulled, angry, pouting, etc. You act as if everything is just fine and dandy with you (even if you don't actually feel that way). You don't press him with your constant conversation. You don't nag about anything! You don't whine, feel sorry for yourself, or get in a "mood". You want to be a woman that any man would love to be around. No man wants to be around a woman who is acting all needy, clingy, whiney, nagging, b*thcy, or "desparate". Men can spot desparation a mile away and they take off running. What will be hard for you is to stop acting like a "wife". Stop talking like his "wife". Stop treating him as if he is your husband. Instead, talk to him and treat him as if he was a co-worker or a neighbor. This may sound crazy right now, but it takes time to put all this together. Too much to tell all at one time, so you'll have to trust me about some of this. Anyway, if you can stop treating him like a husband and treat him like he was just a neighbor then you will be able to give him the space he wants and to stop acting as if you are a clinging vine on him. It will help you look more pleasing to him--and he'll begin to relax more when he goes home. He won't dread facing you and thinking that you are going to start asking him about what he's been doing or who he has seen, etc.

Never, ever ask him where he's been or what he's been doing, etc.....no matter how late he comes home. Never wait up for him, no matter how late it is. If it is late, then lock all the doors (if he forgot his key then that's even better) and turn off the outside lights and all the inside lights and go to bed! Don't show that you were even thinking about him not being there. If he comes in, don't let him know you are awake (if you are), but pretend to sleep and don't wake up. If you were always the type to fret over him, then it is time for that to cease! He will finally wonder why you aren't fretting over him the way you use to do. He will begin to want you to notice him more. Remember, we want what we can't have.

Become unavailable to him. Like this weekend.......you will be unavailable to him (unless he tags along). BTW, if he asks if he can go, just shrug your shoulders and say, "Sure, if you want to".....and then quickly change your attention to something else. Always act as if you are involved with something else so it doesn't imply you are hanging onto every word or deed he does. Act distracted. This may sound like game playing, but what it does is to cause you to stop being the way you are right now, and help you to become much more interesting to him. You want to do what Michele calls a 180 turn. It will be different from what he has been used to seeing you do or say......and it will be nice. The two of you have been together a long time, and you don't want him to change women.....so you just need to change things up a bit. We all get into slumps from time to time. Right now, he is very distracted by this OW and you want to get his attention away from her and back onto you. You realize that you can't continue to do what you've been doing lately b/c that sure hasn't worked, and it never does.

Anyway....if he decides to go along this weekend, don't give him your undivided attention, but stay busy doing things you enjoy doing and let him fend for himself. However, remember not to be rude or cold toward him and be charming, gracful, and turn the personality on whenever you are around him. Will there be other people there?

He refuses to leave the house. He says it is HIS house and he paid for it

Yeah, that kind of talk just turns me off! The best way to handle it is to walk out of the room and don't give him the satisfaction of having your attention. Get busy doing something else and don't get into a R (relationship)talk. Never stoop to getting into arguments with him about this sort of thing. If you've decided to stay in the M, then simply refuse to discuss the house or anthing else that the two of you have talked about lately. If he starts talking about a divorce, just say that is not what you want but that you won't stand in his way if he persists. (But, you'll have to be ready to back that statement up....or don't say it.) Don't agree to filing or a separation or anthing else. Don't get into a fight, just walk away.

If your H thought that you were tired of him and wanted to be free so that you could date other men.....he would nearly die trying to win you back! Do you relalize that? Human nature! You are probably too afraid to take that chance....just as many LBS are.....but everytime a spouse thinks that "they" are being dumped, their song suddenly changes! I'm not telling you to start dating or anything like that.....I'm only making a point. It is all about attitude. Attitude is everything. You can win him or lose him with your attitude.

You asked me if I knew how to become unavailable and play hard to get? I really don't know how to do that.

Did you ever do that in high school? Did you ever have a crush on a boy who you wanted to get his attention, but you knew you could not afford to act eager or he would not consider liking you? It goes back to what we can't have. If girls act as if they don't care about the boy, then he sees that as a "challenge" and of course, he wants the girl he can't have. Boys don't want the girl that is all over him and offering herself up for him......he wants that girl that he has to pursue. That is the way God made him, but somewhere girls lost that concept, which is very sad. So....how can you be hard to get in your MR at this time? Is that what you are asking? We have talked about you waiting for him to make the phone calls, etc. When he does call, let it ring about three times before you answer so you'll appear to be involved in something interesting......but if he asks what you are doing....you can be a little mysterious (without lying) and move on to why he called. Sometimes, you might choose to not be home when he calls or not answer your cell when he calls. Let it go to voice mail. Be that girls that doesn't show how "eager" you are to hear from him.

Another way is to get a life (GAL). Interesting people are people who have a life! Your H is bored with his life at home and with you (to be very plain spoken about it). That is the symptom of a WAH. So, you must find things that you enjoy doing that gets you involved in "life". That makes you interesting, plus it does so much for "you" as an individual. You need to enjoy things and stop pouring every single ounce of yourself into your H. I know this all may sound terrible to your ears, but this is the route you have to take to get things back on track. You never want to stop doing what works. Whatever works... that is what you want to contine to do after you reconcile.

So, what other ways can you think of that would help to keep you unavailable? Is there something you can do sometimes in the evenings that would take you away from the house for awhile? I bet you can think of things to do with your daughter. However, you want to do things that don't just involved your kids. You need some adult time with friends. DR also suggests that you be a little mysterious. Don't cheat or lie. Don't do anthing that goes against your moral or religious beliefs. But we women get into a habit of telling out H's about every single move we've made all day long. Maybe just being a little quiet would make him wonder. If he saw you sitting there thinking to yourself with a little smile on your face......would he wonder? If he asked you, all you would say is, "Oh nothing". That would be the truth, right? Maybe you go out to the movies with a girlfriend. Your H wants the details and you choose not to give him every single detail. Why should you? Is he telling you every detail about his affair? You can just say, "Oh, I just spent the evening with a friend" or " I went to the movies with a friend".....but you don't have to tell him "who" the friend is......you could just smile and walk away. If you don't like doing that, then you could go out to the mall and window shop, but you could be out later than usual. When he asks, you tell him the truth, you tell him you were at the mall. Okay?

I may be giving you too much too quickly. Don't think I'm suggesting you pretend that you are having an affair yourself! I don't mean that at all. I'm just trying to give you some ideas on how to be a little mysterious and something "different" from what he is use to seeing in you.

Maybe I need to stop here and start another post to answer the rest that you talked about.

[sandi2]

Do I stop doing laundry and running errands for him and stuff like that? You also talked about the "tough love" way of not sharing him with another woman. How do I do that if he won't leave the house and I am not going to either. How do I live like that?

Every case is a little different. I don't know enough about your H or the situation yet, to know exactly what to tell you about doing errands and the laundry, etc. How do you feel when you do these chores? Do you enjoy it? How does he make you feel when you do it? In other words, if he shows any disrespect or makes you feel less than a very valuable jewel, then I would say to show him that you are not his servant. Otherwise, I would not change things if he is nice and appreciates it. If you get a job outside the home, then you need to expect him to pick up after himself and to do his part in the chores.

Respect is a very important part of the R and how your H will feel about you and treat you. It is up to you as to "how" your H will treat you.

When I spoke of "tough love" in an earlier post, I was actully talking about a different way of handling this situation. However, to a large degree, you have to use tough love in the way we have been discussing the divorce busting techniques. So, since you have decided to stay in the M, then I will talk from that point of view.

First, I have to talk about something very personal. Some LBS do not want to share their bed with their WAS and feel that they simply cannot continue to have sex with them if they are involved in an A. That is a very personal decision. It is your choice and what I may feel would be the right thing to do, may be completely opposite from what you desire. However, if you do decide to have sex with your H, please insist on using protection b/c if you don't....then you are having sex with the OW and the partners she's had. Something to consider. Some couples have a high sex drive and want that "release" and even feel that having sex draws them closer together. Some LBS do not have sex but continue to sleep in the same bed with their S. Again, that is your decision. If you feel that you cannot sleep in the same bed with your H, then you need to fix a room for you to sleep in (or couch or whatever). But, your children will know something is wrong, so that is another point to consider.

The part about "tough love" in this stitch, would be by drawing boundaries. Boundaries is for you and about you.....not him. It is what you can live with...and for how long.....not what you are holding over his head and using for control. For an example.......let's say that one thing that you can't live with is for your H to talk to OW on the phone in your presence. If he sends a text message or cell phone call to OW in front of you, then you say, "I certainly hope your are not contacting the OW in front of your W b/c that would be incredible disrespectful and I don't know that I can live with that." Now, whatever you say you must be prepared to back it up b/c he may call your bluff. what would you do if he said, "Well tough, I'm contacting her anyway!" What would be the consequenses for those disrespectful actions? I bet you make your kids suffer the consequenses for their bad decisions, don't you? In much of the same way, your H will have to do that. I'm not very good at describing the boundaries and I may have to get a buddy of mine to help out with this. The point is for you to decide what you will not tollerate and then stick to your guns. Of course, I realize that you don't want to tolerate an A, but you know what I'm trying to say? If you are going to hang in this MR then you have to have boundaries to respect. He must know what lines not to cross. If he chooses to cross those lines, then he needs to deal with the consequenses. He will treat you like a doormat if you don't teach him to show respect. You have to stand up for yourself and show some toughness.

If it were me.....I would not have sex with him as long as he is having sex with OW. If he wanted to make love, then that is when I would tell him that I will not share my H with another woman. I do not believe in an open marriage. Or, that..... I do not believe a M is for three people, but only two. You get the idea? Again, those are boundaries. I learned most of this from "Puppy Dog Tails" and he is very good at explaining how to set boundaries and keep them in tack. If you want, I could ask him to drop by and look at your posts. That is....if I can run him down. He's been very busy lately.