checking in ... again

[garyjlost]

Hi. Several months have passed since my last message here. Sorry for the long absence, but I was probably expending too much time and energy THINKING about my marriage. I just needed to live the marriage. So I stopped coming to the DB forums. But several months have now elapsed and while my marriage is now better than it was a year ago, that isn't necessarily saying very much.

I feel like I need someone's feedback ...

Got a minute?

I don't expect you to plow through my entire story again. Heck, it wasn't that interesting to begin with. So here's the capsule version:

My wife and I had drifted apart. We had been together 17 years. We have a daughter, 10 years old. My wife was solely focused on our daughter. I was focused on projects outside of the family. We led separate lives.

I wasn't happy. My wife wasn't happy. (She was becoming a walk-away wife.) She had very little interest in me sexually. She looked outside the marriage for sex partners. I found out about her and another guy. I told her what I knew. We nearly divorced.

Because we have a daughter, we reconsidered. We had never really worked very hard at making the marriage satisfying. So we both agreed to make changes and to do our best to make the marriage what we wanted.

I dropped my outside projects. I started going to church with the family. I changed my work schedule so it allowed me to spend a maximum of time with my family. I became more affectionate. I talked more to my wife. We shared much more of our lives together.

My wife agreed that our daughter needed to start sleeping in her own bed. So at long last, this finally happened. (Yea!) She agreed that we'd get a babysitter so that we can spend time together (yea!)

As a result, our marriage improved considerably. We have had date nights. There was more intimacy (relatively speaking). There was more sex (relatively speaking).

But were we really happy?

Well, old patterns started to reassert themselves ...

My wife is happy with sex once every month or two. I'd like to make love a little more often than that. Once or twice a week, maybe? So while we had a short honeymoon period after the reconciliation, the frequency of sex is now much diminished.

I make advancements. She turns me down. I make advancements. She turns me down. I'm no sex addict. I make advancements maybe once a week.

We are now back to my wife's schedule for love making. This is killing me.

I have expended a considerable amount of energy in changing my habits, in becoming a better family man and a better husband--but this means I feel a greater since of intimacy with my wife and I need to make love to her more frequently than once every month or two. I'm dying here.

I'm becoming grumpy again. This got me in trouble in the past.

I don't know how to talk to my wife about this. She typically refuses to talk about sex. She refuses to compromise in situations like this. I think she derives more pleasure from denying me sex than from making love to me. It gives her power.

It's so difficult to arrange love making. My wife will ONLY have sex after we share a romantic evening on the town. Love making MUST be the very last item on the evening's agenda. So typically after a date night, we get home and my wife is tired. Alcohol tends to make her sleepy, and she drinks lots of alcohol. I then have the task of driving home the babysitter. I rush to get the babysitter home. I get back to my wife and ... and she says she's too tired. Tomorrow. Well, tomorrow there are new excuses. This is my life.

I don't know how to talk to my wife about this. She'll take it as a personal attack and become defensive. She won't listen to my needs.

She is very self centered, at her own admission.

So I'm re-reading SEX STARVED MARRIAGE. It has some strategies for discussions. And I'm reading PASSIONATE MARRIAGE.

But I feel so very alone.

I don't know if this is a situation that can be fixed.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.

[BrokenTrust]

GaryjLost,

I just wanted to drop a little note to tell you to keep hope alive... old habits are hard to break and it sounds like your wife might be slipping into her old habits, maybe unconsciously testing to see if her doing that will make you change back as well.

My best advice would be to try to stay the course... words are just words but actions speak to the heart.

Maybe change things up a bit... dates have become normal... there is a set schedule, go on date, come home, ML. Where is the relaxed spontinaity? She knows what you expect at the end of a date.

If you can afford it, maybe a romantic weekend, just the two of you at a bed and breakfast, not expecting sex, just the two of you rekindling what came before sex... long walks and hand holding.

When things become routine they become chores, so think of things that might break the routine.

I hope some of this might help, I am the SS person in my relationship and am trying to put myself in the mindset of the LSD partner... in my case my partner has habitual EA with OOW and I have, as of yet, not found a way to bring his attention back to me, so I am trying the same things myself.

[garyjlost]

Hi, BrokenTrust.

Thanks for your response.

You said:
"it sounds like your wife might be slipping into her old habits, maybe unconsciously testing to see if her doing that will make you change back as well."

You might be onto something there. I'll keep this in mind. Good advice.

You said:
"dates have become normal... there is a set schedule, go on date, come home, ML. Where is the relaxed spontinaity?"

Exactly. But I don't know how to change this scenario. I'm not the one enforcing a mundane pattern. The pattern has been imposed by my wife as the ONLY acceptable pattern. But yes, at the same time, this pattern is utterly devoid of spontaneity. I don't know what to do ...

You said:
"If you can afford it, maybe a romantic weekend, just the two of you at a bed and breakfast, not expecting sex, just the two of you rekindling what came before sex..."

Yes, we've done this ... once. It seemed to work well. But money is very tight right now. We splurged on two vacations this past summer (with our daughter in tow) and now have little spare money. Although we are looking into this ... maybe in November.

I just read your sitch. Wow. I'll respond in your own thread.

Thanks again.

[BrokenTrust]

You said:
"dates have become normal... there is a set schedule, go on date, come home, ML. Where is the relaxed spontinaity?"

Exactly. But I don't know how to change this scenario. I'm not the one enforcing a mundane pattern. The pattern has been imposed by my wife as the ONLY acceptable pattern. But yes, at the same time, this pattern is utterly devoid of spontaneity. I don't know what to do ...

I have a devilish thought in mind, tell me what you think about it, if it works then it would, of course, be a good thing... if it doesn't then you have really only lost nothing.

Your wife is always the one to turn you down... so maybe turning the tables in a small way...

This will be hard on you... as the SS spouse in my relationship I know it will be hard, but it might break a mindset in your wife by confusing her a bit and making her think.

On your next date night do things that you normally do, but once you get home from dropping off the babysitter be prepared to stop. Before she can say "I am tired tonight" you mention how tired you are and give her a kiss goodnight and roll over. A dew night later, out of the bedroom and after your D goes to bed do hand holding... cuddle... but once you hit the bedroom just give her the kiss goodnight and roll over.

Over the next couple of weeks you continue, showing affection and being playful, but before she can be the one to cut things off you gently kiss her goodnight and roll over. This will drive her crazy because the rule has always been that she calls the shots of when things don't happen and it would not suprise me if she tried to innitiate things because she wants to know she has the power. When she does... don't resent it, just go with the flow and never mention it. Then go back to the playful caressess out of the bedroom and kisses goodnight... don't press... don't expect...

It may work to get her to be the initiator, just so she can still call the shots, but after a few weeks things would hopefully change to where she would look forward to the anticipation... will he ask and what will I do? I wonder what he would do if I....

I am not sure if this will even work for you, or if this is a really stupid suggestion, but in the battle to win a war (and yes, we are warring against divorce here) sometimes we have to change how we attack and strategic retreats.

[DanceQueen]

Broken - that was brilliant!

Gary - the key to what Broken is suggesting is that you "wear" the attitude that you could take it or leave it, you are not at her whim, you are in control of your own sex life and you don't beg for it. I hope you try Broken's suggestion!

DQ

[garyjlost]

Thanks for the suggestion, BrokenTrust.

I've sort of attempted this, but I didn't follow through very well.

Part of the problem is just getting time with my wife. There is no cuddle time. For example, she ALWAYS chooses to watch TV with our daughter versus with me (and I can only watch so much Disney channel or the Cartoon Network before I go nuts). Occasionally, we ALL watch TV together (maybe an old movie). But getting any alone time with my wife when we can just cuddle is almost impossible.

And at the end of the night, after a date night, my wife just goes to bed and falls asleep while I'm running the babysitter home(unless I plead with her to stay up). So it's hard to turn the tables because the opportunity for turning the tables is hard to come by. (Note: and don't even think about me waking her up when I get back--not possible. She'll growl like a bear.)

Every evening when we go to sleep, she insists that I turn AWAY from her. She then cuddles against me. But she refuses to let me cuddle her. She is absolutely rigid in her thinking. No exceptions are allowed. Ever. Well, maybe once a year (and then she thinks she's being incredibly generous).

She's a piece of work, I'm telling you.

An example: it was my birthday recently. There was really just one thing that I wanted. To make love to my wife. She knew this. That evening, she says she's too tired. Tomorrow. We'll make love tomorrow. Tomorrow arrives. Her period arrives. She makes it clear she won't enjoy love making. She says I can do it but just make it quick.

In her defense:
The complication here is my wife was a walk-away wife. A year ago, she had really checked out of the marriage. On one hand, I suppose I should be glad that she and I are making love at all. In this type of situation, the wife typically has stopped making love to the husband altogether. If reconciliation happens, love making doesn't typically follow--for a long time. This I've been told by other WAWs in the DB forums. So on one hand, I should be grateful that lovemaking has returned to the marriage, but on the other hand .... ARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

[spellfire]

Gary,

Our situations are still so similar. I could have almost written those same posts, except for having a babysitter. That is about the only detail that is different.

At work right now, but I am gonna revisit this thread later.

SF

[garyjlost]

Mike:

Yeah, it's just plain spooky. You even seemed to have stopped posting messages (since April) to your own thread -- until just recently. Just like me (since March).

I wish I could say I feel some satisfaction in knowing I'm not alone ...

[BrokenTrust]

GaryjLost,

It sounds like you are in a very stringent box, making it hard to try to introduce new ideas and situations into your relationship.

She wants to be the one to snuggle uo to your back so that she can be the one that decides when the snuggling stops.

I am going to ask a few questions from a woman's perspective so that maybe you will be able to get closer to the reason for her LSD... it may take some time to think through things but once you know what is really behind the LSD you might be able to think of things that will not trigger an adverse reaction.

1- As we age (for women) gravity becomes a cruel trick on our bodies... has she taken to dressing in more form hiding clothing? Looser shirts that hide her shape, pants in the summer when shorts usually are more comfortable, those extra large shapeless t-shirts to sleep in?

If she has been showing signs of being uncomfortable with her body it might explain why she does not want your arms around her and instead wants to snuggle up to you. The thought might also be hidden somewhere in her mind "it is not me, he is just a horndog".

How can you get past this? Random acts of compliments... saying things like "Have I told you that you are just as beautiful as the first time I saw you" out of the blue as an example. Just little things, here and there, with no expectations for results. If it is set in her mind that she has changed it will take a while for her to first realize that you mean what you are saying then a bit longer for her to believe you mean it. Don't go all Don Juan, that will be suspicious, but suprise her with a single white rose (red is so predictable) or a single sunflower (tell her silly can be fun and when you saw it you wanted to share the fun) for no reason, just hand it to her, kiss her on the cheek and leave it at that.

2- Is she using your daughter as a sheild between you to keep you from cuddling... a barrier to keep you away?

She might be thinking that if she watches TV with your daughter that you will keep your distance, especially if doing so has worked in the past. Have you, yourself, made this a tool for her to use?

Ask yourself... what would your daughter do if you joined them... cuddling does not have to be sexual in nature with an agenda in mind... it can simply be closeness. Children that see their parents being affectionate might make comments "eww, gross" but actually they tend to be more secure and have a better chance when they grow up of showing affection to others.

3- When in public (going to the store) is it all buisness with no contact... just two people pushing a cart?

Small things are big... if you walk past her a gentle brush of your hand on her waist in mundane settings, brushing her hair off her shoulder in the check out line and a playful wink as you make eye contact can speak volumes. Physical touches in public, even very small ones, show pride... as if saying "look at her... she is with me!" not only lets her know that you want her everywhere and not just as a sexual partner but will boost her self esteem. (Goes back to number 1)

If you do not go grocery shopping with her... start to offer to go with her. When you go clothes shopping ask for her help "what shirt do you like best?" (a subtle hint that her opionion is important to you).

I don't know if any of this will help or if you have already tried these things, but I will toss them out there.

Good luck!

[garyjlost]

BrokenTrust:

Good recommendations. Thank you very much.

You said:
"1- As we age (for women) gravity becomes a cruel trick on our bodies... has she taken to dressing in more form hiding clothing? Looser shirts that hide her shape, pants in the summer when shorts usually are more comfortable, those extra large shapeless t-shirts to sleep in?"

Yes, she has gained weight. Yes, she feels some embarrassment about her size now. She will only make love when the lights are out. She doesn't feel comfortable with her body. However, she is still beautiful and sexy. I've told her this, but she doesn't believe me. Regardless of her reaction, though, I probably could do a better job of telling her things that would make her feel better about herself. Good suggestion.

You said:
"2- Is she using your daughter as a sheild between you to keep you from cuddling... a barrier to keep you away?"

I long suspected the answer was "yes." But my wife has recently conveyed to me her fear that she will die early--as nearly everyone on her father's side of the family did (rarely passing the age of 60). No one passed 65. Her entire family is now dead with only a few cousins surviving and one uncle. So she says she feels the clock ticking and this means she puts all of her time into our daughter. In this scenario, I'm sort of irrelevant, except for helping with the care of our daughter and being a good father figure. Otherwise, I'm sort of irrelevant. As a husband, that is. Pure figurehead and not much else. She has put me on the back burner, where I'm supposed to just simmer ... until our daughter goes to college? Will I ever get her back again?

You said:
"3- When in public (going to the store) is it all buisness with no contact... just two people pushing a cart?"

I go with her to church and to the grocery store and to our daughter's extracurricular activities. The strange thing is she's fairly affectionate at church. This is one of the few places where she really wants me to put my arm around her and to hold hands. I suppose maybe because it's safe? I don't know. She is more affectionate when we are in public than when we're in private. And I'm affectionate regardless of the situation.