My Intro: Thanks for Reading!

[RedSoxFan]

#1 - W came to me all wheedly and sweet, wanting some of my time with the kids, and I simply said, "No, you have already taken 50% of my time with the kids, and I will give up no more." She blew up and yelled and ranted, and threatened divorce and 'taking everything I have'. I replied, "I understand you're upset, but the conversation is over." I then hung up. She called me back an hour later crying, and said, "I'm so busy with work and school, I just don't have time to see them." I replied, "I understand it must be tough, but these were your choices, and you will need to prioritize what is most important in your life."

So I thought I was doing exactly this when I told her to make the decision. It was her weekend with the kids and she was graciously allowing them to be with me to go to the party. I wanted her to make the call. Whether it was because she needed the time to herself, she wanted to be with OM, whatever. I didn't want to assume the burden for her.

So is this controlling of me to have not made the call? Was I trying to manipulate in a way or place that I shouldn't have?

[JayMan]

Here is an easy rule of thumb in that situation: If W offers me ANY time to spend with my kids, I take it. I don't care if she's gonna sleep with 14 men, and run naked around the park with her hair on fire. Worst case, you will be a hero to your kids, and show her what a good dad you are - I can think of worse things than that!

Otherwise, I don't think it was a mistake to require that she make the decision, but be firm about it, don't talk about it ad nauseum. Tell her: "Call me back with whatever you decide."

However, Coach is right about many wives wanting someone to lead - my W is very strong-willed and very in charge, but when the poopie hits the fan, the first thing she does is call me. If it has to do with my kids, I address the situation, and I take action.

If it has to do with her having a hard day at work, or not having any money, I sympathize appropriately, i.e. "It must be really hard with balancing school and work, I can't imagine." Then, I find some reason to go. W has decided not to be my wife, so she doesn't get husband privileges.

I know that many on here take it as a good sign when their spouse calls with problems, but I guarantee 90% of the time it is cake-eating. My W is with a complete loser, and she knows it, but anytime the really hard stuff hits, she doesn't call him, she calls me, because she knows that I can handle it, and OM wouldn't.

So when it happens, be strong, and firm. Do not attempt to control - don't tell her what she should do. You can choose which things make sense to get involved in. My W called me and said she needed to get new tires - hers were completely bald, I mean down to the bare rubber. My kids ride in her car, so it was in my interest to assist. I knew she had no clue, so I looked up a phone number for her, and suggested she get price comparisons. I didn't tell her to get them changed, or how to do it, or where to go.

Another time, she called me, and had hurt her back. I inquired as to whether she was OK or not, and after she said she was, I didn't say anything else. She started talking about how she might lose her job if it didn't heal fast enough, and money was tight - this is a situation that she brought on herself, so I listened. I didn't offer up solutions, I didn't offer money, I simply said mm-hmm. I waited until she was done, told her I hoped she felt better soon, and gave a reason to disconnect the phone.

I realize I'm not addressing your specific question - but I don't know your wife, or the specific situation, or how you relate to your kids, so I'm sticking with generalities. I think the best place to show firm strong leadership is with your own life - exercise, health, career, spirituality (if applicable) - and even more importantly with your kids. If she wants you to take the kids, and you possibly can, do it - don't use the kids to create a burden on her.

[RedSoxFan]

I realize I'm not addressing your specific question - but I don't know your wife, or the specific situation, or how you relate to your kids, so I'm sticking with generalities. I think the best place to show firm strong leadership is with your own life - exercise, health, career, spirituality (if applicable) - and even more importantly with your kids. If she wants you to take the kids, and you possibly can, do it - don't use the kids to create a burden on her.

Thanks for taking the time JF. It's great to hear your perspective.

As for exercise, health, career, spirituality and being a great Dad...I'm all over that part. Getting lined up on the subtleties and tactics is still a bit challenging. Unfortunately there isn't much in the DBing books that address my specific situation so I'm kind of winging it a bit.

[Coach]

Unfortunately there isn't much in the DBing books that address my specific situation so I'm kind of winging it a bit.

Yep you are unique just like everybody else.

If it works keep it. If it doesn't work scratch it off the list and try something different.

[JayMan]

That's the ticket - don't be afraid to make mistakes. I remember saying stuff and thinking that W would never speak to me again - I'd sweat it for 2 days, and she'd call with a funny joke like nothing ever happened.

I make it a point to apologize immediately if I'm unfair or wrong as well - and that goes a long ways, plus it takes away any ammo from the WAS to try to use against you - they are scrambling for ways to justify their actions.

[aliveandkicking]

JonF- You have succinctly articulated so much of what this is about. Thanks.

Of course, there is no one way and we get thrown curve balls. I finally realized after months of taking polls and trying to make a "plan" that the plan is general and the implementation requires, flexibility, levity, courage and forgiveness (when we "miss the mark")...

See SP's thread...just when I see something that seems to be the wrong move, it ends up being just right.

Check out Thinker's thread...a funeral just when they are finally about to go to Retro. Challenges abound. We all have to manage our own unique situations. It is the stuff that life is made of and what really makes us exercise our emotional muscles.

[Coach]

She clearly showed signs of mixed emotions and indecisiveness.

She doesn't want you to show mixed emotions or be indecisive. She wants you to know the answer and act. To many "maybes" in your thinking. What's the right thing to do? Yes, that's subjective so you have to answer it for you.

Does it go against my values or beliefs?

Does it help me achieve my goals?

You can handle it.

[aliveandkicking]

I didn't answer the last text right away, she then followed up with another one later in the evening that was a bit nasty. It said something to the effect of I really don't care, I just need to know for planning purposes. Later that evening I responded saying I was sorry for missing her texts, let her know I was at a festival, had left my phone in the car, thought her text wasn't nice, it was up to her about the kids staying the night, and again thanked her for being a great Mom and thinking of them. Next morning She responded saying NP and that the issue was a Sunday event and she had moved it out to the afternoon so it wouldn't matter either way if the kids stayed.

Bold...too much information and too much conversation IMO.

Later in the day on Saturday she texted again saying she needed to know if they were staying or not. I text back that I thought we had already covered it. She kept asking me but then saying she really didn't care one way or the other. I told her that she should just decide which one she wanted. She texted again saying she might find something to do if they were staying but she didn't know. I texted back and said no big. Just decide or you can let us know if you do find something and I'll take them home with me. I think she said something about the kids needing to pack and needing to know where they're going to sleep. I reminded her that they have everything they need at my place. I told her at this point the conversation is making me very uncomfortable.

Finally I called and got her on the phone. I said look just tell me whats going on. She said I'm having a bad day and I don't want the kids to see me crying when they come home. She said I feel like getting shi*t faced. I told her that wasn't the answer, that she'd feel worse tomorrow and offered her to come along with us. She declined of course. Somewhere in there she said something about needing to stand on her own two feet, or stand on her own, or something. I texted her later in the evening to see if she was OK. She asked me to stop worrying about her. I responded that I wasn't worrying I was just being there for her as any friend would be and that I'd leave her be. She said thanks. I ended up dropping 2 kids off and taking one home with me. She was in bed watching TV when we arrived at her place just after midnight. She came down to greet us. I left. Dropped daughter off next morning, was cordial, left quickly and haven't spoken to her since.

Bold- Alright. My take. You need to be decisive when it comes to what you want or are willing to do. If she asks you, then you decide. But, her wanting to get sh*t faced is like a petulant teenager baiting you and then telling you not to worry! Stay the heck out of it and make decisions according to the information you are getting. I would not get into her problems but I would say, "I will keep the kids until x o'clock" or whatever the situation calls for.

You see, when it comes to her and what she is doing, you stay out of it, you leave it in her lap. Stop referring to yourself as a friend or defending your inquiries or tell her she "should decide" or "that's not the answer" or some long excuse about why you missed her texts. You miss her texts because you are busy and not at her beckon call and she doesn't need to know details. Trust me on this. It is unbecoming. You have a life.

So, to clarify, sometimes you let her make decisions and sometimes you make them yourself. In general, differentiate between what is about what you want and think it is the right choice for you and your kids vs. what is her baiting you into her life and her drama and then reaffirming that you are controlling and parental. Get it?

I've had H say extremely inflammatory things to me. Unless I feel compelled to take action (as in I will be there in 10 minutes to get the kids because this situation does not sound safe), I stay out of it completely. Make sense?

Sorry, it isn't black and white. You have to determine what is worthy of attention and action. Ultimately, most of it is not and is just a trap.

[aliveandkicking]

It's not a conscious decision for a woman to test her man. It's not a game. It's part of what a woman wants in a man. It shouldn't be a game to you either. Take care of business.

Yes! The testing is certainly not conscious. If I'm trapped under a car, I am not testing you to see if you can lift that much weight, I want out from under the car. If you manage to lift the car...well, you passed the "test"...sorry, I'm addicted to metaphors.

[RedSoxFan]

OK, lots to digest here. Thanks everyone for taking the time to chime in. I'll follow up shortly.

Amazon just delivered "Learned Optimism" and "The Five Love Languages Men's Edition"

Between the posts here and those tow juicy texts I'm set for the night ;-)

Woot woot!