WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 11

[PMA_Baby!]

I feel remorse when I deeply and geniunely regret a choice that I've made. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not the person that I wronged is willing to forgive me or not. Remorse comes from my heart, and indicates that a major positive change has taken place.

Bingo! Remorse should never be conditional. That is just an excuse to NOT do THE WORK...

[Stronger]

I completely disagree he did anything that would lead anyone to believe he gave her some cake, with icing and watched her eat it.

In front of his children, his friends (her children and her friends) he was beyond civil to her. They were at an event for their children. She responded in kind. He asked her to dinner. She accepted.

He has to put her in a position to show him she's sorry. Not talking to her about anything except the kids does not give her that opportunity.

"I feel remorse when I deeply and geniunely regret a choice that I've made. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not the person that I wronged is willing to forgive me or not. Remorse comes from my heart, and indicates that a major positive change has taken place."

And you would be a normal person. WASs are not in the normal mind. She's just spent more than most of the last year convincing herself and everyone around her that she was justified in the crap she just pulled. She even convinced CIPA she was....but now that she's been outed.....things have changed quite a bit.

She's trying to figure this out. She's trying to figure out if CIPA even wants to bother with her anymore beyond co-parenting which he has to do with her forever.

To me this is very simple: with CIPA's W, he had to open the door first. She would never do it. That conversation where he confronted her, he so completely shut her down she had absolutely NO reason to believe he would ever forgive her, so why try? At this point, he's unlocked the door, and now he's slightly opened it.

I do believe, from this point on, it's up to her. But CIPA had to start this process.....after what he told her in the confrontation conversation, she would have been wise to keep her distance....and she did. Now, she has a window of opportunity. CIPA will have to wait and see what happens.

[Kittyfish]

Right- and here's my 2 x 4.

If you two are splitting custody you have to coparent with her. Period. It's not a choice to just say "Keep seeing OM and I won't coparent with you".

I know it's painful and you didn't ask for it but unfortunately you two are parents together forever. The kids definitely didn't ask for it.

[Tomato]

How is she getting her cake and eating it too?

This weekend was the first time CIPA has acknowledged her beyond logistics for the boys.

Yup. She cheated. Yup, we're still waiting for even more remorse.

Still, CIPA wants to save his marriage. And he took the high road and good for him. He had to do this. I would NEVER show any kind of remorse to a person I thought had no desire to see me, talk to me or deal with me beyond our children. What's the point? Why bother if I'll never be forgiven? If CIPA shows her that he's going to take the high road, he's showing her, if she tries, maybe he would consider forgiving her.

It's got to start somewhere. CIPA, I told you once, I'll tell you again, this whole time I have done and acted in a way that if my son could watch this whole thing like it were a movie, I would be able to sit right next to him and look him in his eyes and answer every question with my dignity completely intact. Yeah, I may have done things to piss H off, but I really don't care. I still have my diginity and my head is held high.

You too my friend can do that. And at the end of every day, you know this. And in the future, if this were to end, you would be able to tell the boys, "Hey she did what she did. I even opened the door to forgive her....." You are a true man and a true father.

No matter how mad you are, how hurt you are, how disgusted you are...you have to think in terms of "Is she truly sorry?" You can not think in terms of "How can I punish her?"

Do you understand where I'm coming from? One question could save this relationship....the other will only end it completely.

i am pretty much in lock step with ya Stronger my dear.

Foregiveness is a simple word to say, but when it is contemplated and then if you are bold enough to try and put it into practice ....well then there is where you earn your stripes ..and the attention of our great and mighty Lord in Heaven.

T

[MrBond]

I believe she's cake eating because she hasn't changed her tune at all in terms of blame. It's been like that from day one. She's nice because she was caught. Plain and simple.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but let's face it. You defended her from day 1 saying that there was no one else. Then BAM. There it was.

She's not interested in R. Sure you have to be civil to her to co-parent, but you don't need to be inviting her to dinner and stuff either.

[PMA_Baby!]

What's the definition of insanity again?

C has been doing the same thing for over a year... How has being Mr. Niceguy worked for him??? They already have a co-parenting R although she is being selfish at times with the boys wants/needs.

I dont get that logic. The only thing that will work for him is following what Gucci has layed out for AF. Period.

Until he stops chasing her she won't chase him. It's simple.

Detach and move on...

PMA

[confusedinpa]

Right- and here's my 2 x 4.

If you two are splitting custody you have to coparent with her. Period. It's not a choice to just say "Keep seeing OM and I won't coparent with you".

Kittyfish,

I guess there are many ways to co-parent. From the point where I would just send the kids out to her when she pulls up to he driveway (without seeing her) to the other extreme of being best friends forever.

I know she wants us to be friends, regardless of which way this heads. I've told her that if it heads down the path of divorce, I will not be friends with her. If she proceeds with a divorce "disrespectfully", I will not be friends with her.

Thanks for stopping by and checking in on me. This is a very tough decision on how to "behave" at this point in the situation

[confusedinpa]

Stuck808 and PMA_Baby!

I wouldn't say last Sunday was the same as what I've been doing. At a high level, we had dinner together like we had quite frequently before I found out she was cheating.

But, during Sunday's dinners, I did not try to hug her, kiss her or show her any kind of affection. I tried to show her that, without an act, that I am a happy man and father that loves his children very much.

One of my intentions over the dinner on Sunday, was to "address" the issue I had raised several days ago, of how do I avoid this situation from spiraling out of control into WWIII. There are no winners in those types of wars. And there are definitely casualties.

So I took the high road. When we were at the B'day party, we did not say much. She spent the majority of her time talking/laughing with the other moms. I spent my time with the boys. During the cake portion of the party, we sat on opposite ends of the room, but we did make eye contact a couple of times. She smiled at me and I returned the smile as I would have with anyone else in the room.

At the end of the party, she came and sat next to the boys and I and made some light conversation.

When we walked out to the truck, it was about 2.5 hours before she would have picked up the boys. She came over to say goodbye to the boys. After that, she turned to talk about when she would pick them up. That's when I asked her to join me for dinner. I was careful not to say us. She said that she didn't have any money for dinner. If she didn't want to go, I'm good either way, just don't make excuses, but I was asking her to have dinner with me. She said that sounded fine.

We did spend a few minutes alone when the boys were playing while we were out. That's when she brought up how she thought our call on Friday was productive.

So, I've created an "enviornment" where she feels she can talk to me - unlike how she felt before. I've done all that I can do. The rest is up to her.

Either way, it was not an act this weekend. I am happy and proud to be a father to my boys. I have down moments, but they are not as frequent nor as long.

Thanks for all the support and thoughts.

[confusedinpa]

Just journaling

Not much activity yesterday. Very busy at work.

She sent me a text at 6:30 AM saying that she was sorry that the dinner took so long Sun nite and hoped that it wasn't too late when I got into NY. We had gotten a dunkacino when we were together Sun nite, so I just replied back "The dunkacino helped". She replied back good

She sent me a couple of misc emails/text during the day. I didn't respond to any because they didn't seem to merit a response.

When I talked to the boys last nite (again, Skype doesn't work?!!?!?) she did say a couple of words on the phone - nothing of any merit/value.

No meaningful contact from her (not that it was bothering me, more from just a journal entry).

I had my therapy call last nite that seemed pretty good. My therapist said I sounded much better over the last couple of weeks and we talked about what happened over the past week. She covered both sides of the discussion on this thread (Stuck & PMA and the other end of Stronger & Tomato)

I did tell my therapist what I want is to have a renewed marriage with my wife, but I just don't see how to get there as I can't imagine how I will ever trust her again. She said we will cross that bridge when we get there.....

So, I am another day closer to seeing the boys and it's going to be another busy day at work. That should make the week go by quickly.

[sandi2]

I'm a little confused myself. Is your W still in an A?