Over the Shock and GALing 6

[Kettricken]

She does understand that my mom does not like her, and she does know that my mom holds strange and wrong ideas about her, but I have not yet told her the details of what I am hearing - just a few highlights.

................

The details will hurt my wife, while not giving her anything she can do anything about. It will make her angry on the basis of 3rd party information (she hears from me that I heard from my sibling that my mom said...).

IMO, no, for the reasons above. Not the gory details. Not the useless petty offal that goes back umpty years. Your wife (obviously) knows there is a problem, and you now fully understand that there is a problem. Unless you are planning to just dump the whole thing in your wife's lap to deal with, I see no need for passing along detailed third-party crap. Especially since you know how quickly the accuracy of information degrades as it is repeated, even if no one intends it.

There's a big difference between keeping important stuff that YOU think/feel away from your wife to avoid conflict and shielding her from the minutiae of hurtful external insults.

Side point: I understand the need for you to communicate with your siblings about this to get a better read on the extent of the problem, but I wouldn't make a habit out of discussing your wife's relationship with your parents to the exclusion of her, now that you know.

[givingitmyall]

I don't think I would tell your W. She already knows the deal, and she's pissed you didn't see it before now.

It's sort of like how you don't tell you W every thought you have b/c some would just be too hurtful.

Your call, but I would not tell her the details. What, really, is the upside in telling her?

I would just tell her you understand now what she felt way back when she knew something was up with your mother. And that, again, you're sorry for not seeing it sooner. But, now you understand and do not approve of how W's been treated. No reason to go into details.

If she point blank asks if your sibs have told you anything, then you have to be honest with her, but I wouldn't bring it up.

[SmileysPerson]

From my POV, as it has evolved since D-Day, tough question. It's all in The Knowing, isn't it?

I mean, if I know something about you -- something that affects you, affects our partnership (business, romantic, Sunday morning softball league, whatever) -- am I under a moral obligation to share it? At first blush one might say, "No; Golden Rule; if you don't have anything nice to say, etc."

But -- if I take action(s) based on The Knowing Of It, what then is my moral obligation?

Is withholding information the same as hiding information?

Is delicacy the same as deception?

"Dammed if I know, keemosabe; all I know is that when you're making those kinds of calls you're up in the High Country." (Lloyd Bridges, Joe Versus the Volcano)

[Kettricken]

I agree it's a tough call. Because when you start making those decisions for someone else, you aren't really treating them as an equal partner, innit?

OTOH, I still don't see a net benefit in revealing details that are (because of how many links there are in the transmission) sketchy at best. *Definitely* as it regards the ancient history portion of the program.

Perhaps the truly ethical course would be to caveat heavily, as above, and ask Mrs. T if, given the unecessary pain level and gossip status of the intel, she would still like to hear it.... dunno, though.

[orangedog]

O'dog can't offer anything specific to the sitch - without a family tree and a map I get lost in this stuff easily. However keep in mind this kind of drama goes on in almost every family except for the ones who no longer speak.

Stay strong. Say less. Love more.

[Greek]

Mrs. Thinker, Mrs. GIMA and I should start a Surviving MIL support group. Thinker ~~~ Coach and I cannot believe how similar your mother’s grievances are to the ones his mother has against me…esp. the one about the worst thing I did wrong was to marry her son. When I moved out last year, his mother said, “So now you can come home.” Like I was holding him captive or something. Geeeeeeezz.

Anyway.

You asked if you should now tell Mrs. Thinker the laundry list that your parents have against her. I say no…unless you intend to address those issues with them FIRST and then tell her how you handled it. But just telling her, while open, is not going to address the problem. It’s going to hurt her…and you’ll be the messenger. But if you said, “My parents said they’ve been mad because of xyz that happened 123 years ago. But I told them that we la ti da. “ That will show her that you are going to bat for her. But really, I think telling her now, while she is so raw over it, is only going to turn this skirmish into a full blown “you’re dead to me” war with your parents and her.

I would not take any part in spreading the mess, Thinker, and that means telling your sibs to get out of it…and letting your mother know that by dragging them into it, she’s perpetuating discord and making it harder to work through in the long run. One thing you might suggest to the two grown up girls that you love (mother and W) is that they get in the same room and face a few things. Much preferred to mom calling all the sibs and telling them what she really might need to say to W - how unfair to W not give her a shot at answering to all of this. It’s a scary thought, I know, but it’s what I think Big Girls should do (and seldom do). And if that did happen, you would be right there beside Mrs. T holding the line and keeping it real

I know this to be a deep and painful wound – being rejected by a family you give up your own name to be a part of. Don’t get me started. Coach’s parents turned out to be one of the biggest wounds to our M (we learned later). He handled them almost exactly as you describe handling yours. I hung in there with it until – well – I couldn’t. When I left Coach, I thought of myself as leaving them, too.

Be there for her so she can heal. Going forward, don’t allow anymore damage from their direction. Get in the way of it. When you didn’t know, that was one thing. Now that you know…well…you know.

Greek (who swears she'll be a kind and nurturing MIL when her time comes!)

[givingitmyall]

God, I could write a book on this topic. Right down to the part where my mother "borrowed" a ring from my W, lied about not knowing anything about it, then lieing again when we discovered my mom had given the ring to one of my sisters with the instruction not to tell anyone about it until my sister's D (who my mom said the ring was for) was 18 (my neice was about 2 at the time). The hardest discussion I had was to bring it up to my mother, hear her lie to me, then try to lay a guilt trip on me.

Ok, sorry for the hijack Thinker. Just setting the stage.

There were others episodes where my mom was mean in a passive-aggressive sort or way, to my W.

[Thinker]

Thanks Greek,

Mrs. Thinker, Mrs. GIMA and I should start a Surviving MIL support group. -

You know, as a son, I never imagined how bad it could be. There should be a class for new husbands..."You now no longer have a mother - she has become your wife's Mother in Law" Holy Cow!

Coach and I cannot believe how similar your mother’s grievances are to the ones his mother has against me…esp. the one about the worst thing I did wrong was to marry her son.

Well, I added that one - it didn't come from my parents. It is my interpretation of the level of reaction when compared to the real, expressed grievances.

When I moved out last year, his mother said, “So now you can come home.” Like I was holding him captive or something. Geeeeeeezz.

I got "Well you know...she never really was...we always thought...etc" It's like there was never anything good about her or our M. Immediately after the bomb (in the fog of the battle damage) I made the mistake of telling my parents that Mrs. Thinker and I were "Having Problems" etc - no real details. Since then I have had to put a hard stop all discussions with them regarding anything even remotely related to our M because of their irrational bias.

I think telling her now, while she is so raw over it, is only going to turn this skirmish into a full blown “you’re dead to me” war with your parents and her.

You are right. I now understand this. I struggled with the idea of "If we are to be partners on this, how can I not tell her..." concept. I did tell her a few things a couple of nights ago, however, and while it didn't go to "You are now dead to me", it did go to "I never want to see your mother ever again" The truth is indeed even more painful than the years of doubt.

telling your sibs to get out of it

My sibs are not really a part of it, except for the fact that I get calls saying "I don't want to be a part of this, and I refused to talk to Mom about it, but I just wanted you to know that Mom called last night and started saying XYZ" They are both friends with Mrs. Thinker and support our M.

…and letting your mother know that by dragging them into it, she’s perpetuating discord and making it harder to work through in the long run.

So far my mother won't even admit saying anything negative to anyone ever. I think I'd have to tape her conversations with people and play them back to her.

One thing you might suggest to the two grown up girls that you love (mother and W) is that they get in the same room and face a few things. Much preferred to mom calling all the sibs and telling them what she really might need to say to W - how unfair to W not give her a shot at answering to all of this. It’s a scary thought, I know, but it’s what I think Big Girls should do (and seldom do). And if that did happen, you would be right there beside Mrs. T holding the line and keeping it real

Ha! I laugh only because a) I don't think my mother would even be able to admit she had had a negative thought, much less a negative word, and b) Mrs. Thinker has already stated categorically that she has no interest in ever doing such a thing. (and with point a) I am not sure I blame her)

I know this to be a deep and painful wound – being rejected by a family you give up your own name to be a part of. Don’t get me started. Coach’s parents turned out to be one of the biggest wounds to our M (we learned later). He handled them almost exactly as you describe handling yours. I hung in there with it until – well – I couldn’t. When I left Coach, I thought of myself as leaving them, too.

Thanks. That helps me. My wife has said almost the same thing to me.

Be there for her so she can heal. Going forward, don’t allow anymore damage from their direction. Get in the way of it. When you didn’t know, that was one thing. Now that you know…well…you know.

I am interested to know how your joint R with Coaches parents is now. Did they ever accept you? Did they ever accept that they were wrong? Are you able (or will you ever be able) to hold "Normal" extended family relations

How does Coach handle his parents now? I have found that trying to tell my mother that she is doing something wrong is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

On Saturday night, Mrs. Thinker said "I am serious, I don't ever want them spending time with my kids. I feel like if they ever do they are going to be making comments about me and trying to poison my sons against me. (pause) Even if we end up getting divorced, I don't want them spending time with the boys.....(Long pause where I bit my tongue and she considered what she had said - and how little control she would have if we got divorced)....maybe that's a reason not to get divorced in and of itself."

So my major concern right now is not over me or my R with Mrs. Thinker (we'll either work through this or not) or whether I can protect Mrs. Thinker (I can do that by putting distance between her and my mom), but whether my kids will be able to have the same R that I had with my grandparents.

[Thinker]

my mother "borrowed" a ring from my W, lied about not knowing anything about it, then lieing again when we discovered my mom had given the ring to one of my sisters with the instruction not to tell anyone about it until my sister's D (who my mom said the ring was for) was 18 (my neice was about 2 at the time). The hardest discussion I had was to bring it up to my mother, hear her lie to me, then try to lay a guilt trip on me.
There were others episodes where my mom was mean in a passive-aggressive sort or way, to my W.

WOW!!

Just wondering, was this a family heirloom ring, or something else where your Mom thought she should have some control over it?

[givingitmyall]

WOW!!

Just wondering, was this a family heirloom ring, or something else where your Mom thought she should have some control over it?

It was actually my W's great grandmother's ring. Very unique, not worth much $$$, but a LOT of sentimental value for my W. Which made it all the worse.

Needless to say, I don't have a R with my mom and havent for several years due to this and her inability to apologize for it. She, I believe, is bipolar, and says she doesn't remember doing it, but, if she did, she is sorry for the hurt she caused.


You are right to key in on the control aspect. For my mom, it was all about control.