Hey Gucci, Puppy, RobX and Coach!

[robx]

Hey BigJohn, it's been a while, what's your current status, where is your wife, any improvement lately with your sitch?

[futureunknown]

Thanks for the feedback. My W is pretty stubborn when it comes to what she wants to believe and seems pretty committed to her escapism. As you know, escapism is a lot less work that working on your MR and is much more fun.

The key to breaking this fantasy about how divorce is so much the better option is to remove all emotional support, and as much financial support as possible, and let them feel the reality of being on their own. It takes a while though, as their stubbornness will get them by for a while. Eventually life takes its toll though and they can't help but long for the comfort of their H. I was really surprised and impressed how my W was handling life on her own for a while. However, as the months went by and as life kept throwing her curveballs, I could see her start to buckle. She is cash poor. The kids broke two windows in the house she's renting. Her car got scraped along the side. She's got mice in her house. Etc, etc, etc. Amazing how the swagger has gone out of her step as her A dies and she's left to face life alone as a single parent of three little kids.

As Gucci points out, nothing drives home the reality of their decision as them thinking about you dating someone else. I don't think it's jealousy, but rather the realization that if you're with someone else, they'll mean nothing to you any more, and they will truly be alone.

[Stronger]

I'm totally hijacking here.....but Gucci and Robx, Puppy and Coach....please check in with HopeinWaiting.
She gets the Patience of a Saint from me.

She's listed under Next steps in this marathon? Infidelity, Affairs....

She needs your insight.

[robx]

Thanks for the feedback. My W is pretty stubborn when it comes to what she wants to believe and seems pretty committed to her escapism. As you know, escapism is a lot less work that working on your MR and is much more fun.

The key to breaking this fantasy about how divorce is so much the better option is to remove all emotional support, and as much financial support as possible, and let them feel the reality of being on their own. It takes a while though, as their stubbornness will get them by for a while. Eventually life takes its toll though and they can't help but long for the comfort of their H. I was really surprised and impressed how my W was handling life on her own for a while. However, as the months went by and as life kept throwing her curveballs, I could see her start to buckle. She is cash poor. The kids broke two windows in the house she's renting. Her car got scraped along the side. She's got mice in her house. Etc, etc, etc. Amazing how the swagger has gone out of her step as her A dies and she's left to face life alone as a single parent of three little kids.

As Gucci points out, nothing drives home the reality of their decision as them thinking about you dating someone else. I don't think it's jealousy, but rather the realization that if you're with someone else, they'll mean nothing to you any more, and they will truly be alone.

Gucci has mentioned it several times, jealousy plays into this but the fact is, crisis makes people move to action, fear of loss makes people act & react - without any real impetus to force a change at their end otherwise, what else would make them react?

[iwantittowork]

Gucci has mentioned it several times, jealousy plays into this but the fact is, crisis makes people move to action, fear of loss makes people act & react - without any real impetus to force a change at their end otherwise, what else would make them react?

I wonder about this, in my case, and I have seen other say this as well, my W asked me to start dating other women, and last business trip I went on, she told me to get laid while I was there.

I had to tell her no, I am a married man, how else can you respond in those cases?

So that leaves crisis, loss and reality, and why I am now helping to put down the financial in our sitch, as the black and white of it has to be completely different than what she has in her mindset currently.

I think BJ is pursuing the same by forcing the D issue himself, correct BJ?

What other options are there to point these things out? I am currently in belief that we'll have to D, and she spend time in reality as a single mom again to come to the realization that the fairy tale is not what she had in mind?

[futureunknown]

I wonder about this, in my case, and I have seen other say this as well, my W asked me to start dating other women, and last business trip I went on, she told me to get laid while I was there.

My W USED to say these kinds of things, when she was in the throws of her A, she was queen of the world, and she wanted to alleviate that nagging guilt she felt. Just don't say anything in response to those ridiculous comments. Silence is a more biting reply that anything you can say.

She hasn't said anything like that in a loooong time now. She used to mention OM, with the attitude of "I'm with OM now, just accept it." I never replied to those statements either, and I NEVER brought up OM myself, ever. It drove her nuts, as she wanted me to validate that R. How can it be real if this other very important person in my life, my H, won't even acknowledge that it's happening? She really lost it on me once, saying I was taking Bill Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy to a whole other level! Hilarious!

Well, she never mentions OM any more, and she never asks me if I'm dating any more. When I'm talking on the phone with her and I say "Gotta go, I've got plans tonight" she never asks where or with who anymore, but she does offer a gentle "Ok, have a nice time". She knows better than to act hurt or angry after what she's done.

The biggest thing I've done to turn the tide is to be proactive in pushing for the D. Just think of it as a poker bluff, the more convincing the better. Hey, if it works, great, and if it doesn't work, well then you were going to get D anyway, so at least you maintained some pride and dignity. I think the whole dating thing is similar. It drives home the reality that you are really going to be GONE. The WAW is so self centered, so egotistical, that they truly believe you'll always be there for them.

The whole goal of DBing is to chip away at that false sense of security and swagger. While they're in the honeymoon phase of an A, it's impossible, as their sense of reality is distorted by the love chemicals in their brain, but after a few months that wears off, and slowly but surely reality sets in. That's when they become suceptible to the fear of loss. Can be frustrating at first, when everyhing we do seems to just bounce off them, but don't worry, that armor is cracking, slow but sure.

[Jman]

Hey does anyone have suggestions on how to spend an anniversary with a WAW? Our 10th anniversary is this Friday and I was wondering if I should do anything at all. I was thinking of a card only but idk.
Any help on this would be appreciated.

[BigJohn]

I know with my H, when I've "walked" or explained to him, "You are right, let's end this" he back tracks big time. I try not to get to those points where we have those conversations but sometimes, as you know, we get pushed and it's do or die. Respected or become a door mat. I was a door mat long enough.

I think my H is finally at a point where he understands "Ok, Stronger doesn't want this D, but she's ready to go forward with it" and he's not quite sure what to do or think. I know he's scared things would be like they were. I know I can be a hard person and I'm working on that, so I understand his hesitation there. I don't understand plenty of other crap regarding him and his thought process, but I do get that.

Stronger,

Up until recently I've gotten a similar response from my W when she has really pushed me. Most recently, however, that "hesitation" has disappeared and I think she has found some new, comfortable rationalizations for what she is doing and why it would "make sense" to D me. Not clear what part OM or her friends/family are playing in that process. All I know is I have been trying to do my own thing individually and with the kids and just stay away from her.

Thanks for the feedback.

[BigJohn]

Hey BigJohn, it's been a while, what's your current status, where is your wife, any improvement lately with your sitch?

RobX,

Nice to hear from you. Last we talked, I had just filed for D and was looking at how to manage my W seeing is how we are S but under the same roof. Well, my W filed a response to my D petition seeking joint legal custody and sole physical custody for the kids. My W and I discussed the physical custody issue and she said she would be willing to "bestow" upon me a maximum 30% visitation/custody without going to court. I said bull$h*t to that offer, I think I'll take my chances with the mediator and the judge. My W never moved off this 30% maximum custody offer so in response, I filed a supplemental custody declaration in which I agreed to joint legal custody but am seeking primary physical custody- on at least a temporary basis -until my W can get her personal situation under control. If and when that happens, then I'll consider 50/50 joint physical custody. I just filed the supplemental custody declaration today so my W will probably be served in the next day or two. I'll let you know how that turns out.

Regarding the S issue, my W is still living at the house. We pretty much try to avoid one another although recently I got suckered into a nasty R talk- see my prior post. Recently my W told me out of the blue that OM dumped her after I filed because he was "feeling guilty about breaking up our M" and my W "needed to work things out on her own". We all know that is a crock and that if OM did cut off contact with my W it didn't last long- he's just as dependent on her pumping up his pitiful little ego. I'm sure they are both right back at it by now.

Right now my W is at least acting like she is definitely in favor of a D, telling me recently how she has no interest whatsoever to "rekindle" any romance with me; that "You (me) can just forget reconciling with me (W)" and "I don't love you and I don't even like you anymore." I'm definitely a "villian" in my W's eyes and I can only assume that the hamster wheel in her brain is working overtime right now building and/or shoring up rationalizations for D'ing me.

Concurrent with these statements and behavior is my W's growing realization as to how bad D is going to be for everyone- especially her! I know she is really down on the possibility of being alone 50% of the time while I have the kids- she has used them this whole time as a crutch. I also think that realizing that she is going to have to work full time now herself once we D is also something that she is having a hard time with. So the fantasy of life after D is starting to sink in a little.

As to where I'm at, I think I'm basically there in terms of detachment- or resignation- or both. I'm just tired of her bull$h*t, I'm done with it and with her- absent some miracle of course. I'm focusing on my kids right now and protecting us (the kids and I) financially as best I can from my W.

That's it in a nutshell.

[BigJohn]

So that leaves crisis, loss and reality, and why I am now helping to put down the financial in our sitch, as the black and white of it has to be completely different than what she has in her mindset currently.

I think BJ is pursuing the same by forcing the D issue himself, correct BJ?

What other options are there to point these things out? I am currently in belief that we'll have to D, and she spend time in reality as a single mom again to come to the realization that the fairy tale is not what she had in mind?

IWITW,

That is correct, my W has not really given me any other option. Like we say on the street, time to get "real".

Looking back, I'm comfortable overall as to how my sitch has developed. Sure, I could have done many things sooner, faster, and better. But I think I started off my sitch the right way, first trying to understand and empathize with my WAW from her perspective (with much help from my pal Sandi) and work the sitch from that angle. There was a high price to pay for starting off with this approach emotionally and otherwise, but it was the right thing to do.

Once I had exhausted that avenue with my W, it was time to try to implement boundaries and the tough love approach. I wish my W had given me more time to try this approach before forcing my hand to file for D- now it's tough love while we work our way through the D process. At least after the entire D process is over (at a minimum 6 mos. here in California) either my W or I have five years in which to finalize the D with the court. (I'll defer to my W to be the party to finalize the D if and when we get to that point.)

BTW, how are things going with you IWITW?